Not enough map space for 1 freehold per account.

Based on A1 being 10% the size of the map, I'd say there would be enough space for maybe 3000-5000 freeholds total. A1 maybe could hold 200-300 freeholds if you don't include the spaces for nodes, dungeons, npc camps, and the terrain being too steep. So even a generous amount would be 300*10 = 3000 total possible freehold locations, if you don't include the underground. That's with freeholds being back to back and no where to farm. People imagine open areas to farm mobs and recourses where you might see 1 or 2 freeholds every minute or so of travel. If this ideal is to be realized and about 10k players are per server, then the size of A1 being 5% of the map wouldn't even be enough space. If you guys don't want that big of a map and want to keep your promise on 1 account being able to place a freehold, it might be best to start a system where you can have channels, have something like Wildstar, and/or place rental plots in the wilderness for freeholds so that when you go out of a city, all you see aren't just freehold after freehold.

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bloodprophet

Intended design. It creates friction and change in the world. Plus some people won't want a freehold and prefer in city housing or apartments.

George_Black

Players like me wont bother with a freehold. I will look to make my wealth outside of the activities provided in a freehold or city. Like raw material gathering.
I predict that freeholds will be profitable but boring for the vast majority. Not everybody wants to grow pumpkins and corn.

Sheeta

These are basically what we know so far on the amount and rules:
Freeholds may be placed anywhere within the ZOI of a stage 3 node (or higher) so long as they are not in close proximity to any of the following:
Pathing routes (Roadways).
Dungeons and other points of interest (POIs) regardless of advancement.
Spawn areas.
Other freehold plots.
Hard terrain features, such as mountainsides or cliffs.

Freehold plots will require a certificate from the parent node in order to place the plot.
The current design allows placement of freeholds anywhere in the ZOI of the node that the certificate was purchased from, including its vassal nodes. This may change as the result of testing.
The more advanced a node is, the more freeholds can be built within its ZOI.

With this, we know that there will be a limited number of people using freeholds, but I like to prepare for the worse. I was giving possible node locations via map size. If we limit the availability of freeholds via certificates and node sizes, I'd at least want a bigger map to increase the max freeholds per area. If you played A1, the distance between each node wasn't that big at all. Just thinking about the limitations of the certificates and not being close to various things, I'd estimate that Stage 3 might have anywhere from 10-20 freeholds. Lets say 10 freeholds per stage 3 node because: "There were 9 node locations in Alpha-1. Normally there would be 18-20 nodes in the same area." - https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes

Even if we let all 103 nodes have freeholds, that's only 1030 freeholds possible allowed. A player can own 1 apartment, house, and freehold all at the same time. So, since 1 out of 10 players can own a freehold, there will be conflict over it. This could result in wars, but it will leave out casual players who just want to see and build their own thing.

Sheeta

George_Black wrote: »

Players like me wont bother with a freehold. I will look to make my wealth outside of the activities provided in a freehold or city. Like raw material gathering.
I predict that freeholds will be profitable but boring for the vast majority. Not everybody wants to grow pumpkins and corn.

It's not just about growing things. It could be a business like a tavern, a workshop if you're a crafter, an animal farm to cross breed, or for you it would be a safe storage/pitstop between where you are gathering and to the city.

ThatGuyPowers

for me I will most likely not use a freehold my main goal is to become a citizen of a coastal or island node I think it will heavy rely on what profession the player chooses to go down and not everyone will want or need one

Sheeta

Eh..I guess I just wanted my exploration to feel like exploring the dangerous parts of the world rather than taking a stroll in high-end rich neighborhoods. A1 being 10% of the map was a big shocker for me and after revising how freeholds are suppose to work, even more so.

George_Black

Nothing is finished yet. Let's see how it all plays out.

CROW3

Fuzzy math. Let’s see where it goes.

arsnn

I reach a similar conclusion.
480km² divided by 0.05 km² = 96000 freeholds that could be placed if you would cluster the entire map with it.
But that wont be the case...

Half of the map will have unsuitable terrain with big obstrutions like, nodes, starter towns, ocean, lakes, mountains and has an inefficient/organic layout where its hard to place a squared object
--> 43000 freeholds left.
I dont think there is much to room to calculate better here.

Then i´d assume 80 % of whats left will be used for content like mobs, dungeons, world bosses,POI expanding roads ---> 8600 freeholds.
Wiggle room for free form placement and freehold spacing (that mostly cant be used for content) may even depress that number to around ---> 5k

Here i might be off with the my assumptions... assuming they only use like 60% of the space for content that´s --->10k .
This would feel way off for me personally though, i´d much rather assume the space for content is bigger than 80%.

And game is supposed to expand to around 50 k accounts per server.
This is why i think freeholds may end up being more of a shared asset, rather than a personal one.

3Snap

Didn't they say 10k server population? 15k to cover ppl dropping off.

At this stage we do not have numbers on how many different servers will exist for different regions. We've said in the past 8-10,000 concurrent users per server is what we'd like to aim for. Obviously, the number of servers that exist in a region are going to be dependent on the population that's playing.[13] – Steven Sharif

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Servers#:~:text=Server population,-Population limits will&text=Around 8-10k concurrent users,50,000 registered accounts per server.

So if that's 8600 freeholds then there'll be enough freeholds for 86% of the server

arsnn

3Snap wrote: »

Didn't they say 10k server population? 15k to cover ppl dropping off.

At this stage we do not have numbers on how many different servers will exist for different regions. We've said in the past 8-10,000 concurrent users per server is what we'd like to aim for. Obviously, the number of servers that exist in a region are going to be dependent on the population that's playing.[13] – Steven Sharif

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Servers#:~:text=Server population,-Population limits will&text=Around 8-10k concurrent users,50,000 registered accounts per server.

So if that's 8600 freeholds then there'll be enough freeholds for 86% of the server

I mean even the url you posted says „Around 8-10k concurrent users, 50,0000 registered accounts per server.“

Taleof2Cities

Just based on the replies in this thread, less than 86% of forum-goers are interested in a freehold.

I think the OP should relax.

Marcet

So what, not everyone will have a freehold, its gonna be exclusive and if you work hard maybe you'll get one. Is there not some kind of infinite apartment place for the others too??
And what you say about creating wars and disputes over freeholds or territory, that's good, basicly what the game wants to accomplish.

arsnn

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Just based on the replies in this thread, less than 86% of forum-goers are interested in a freehold.

I think the OP should relax.

Thats an interesting conclusion.
I dont think this thread’s responses support that all, nor is the thread representative anyway.

Here is a counter point:
I think the semi passive income that freeholds are gonna provide will be too tempting too pass simply pass up.
Its gonna be the cornerstone for many economic activities and even gameplay loops.

Sheeta

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Just based on the replies in this thread, less than 86% of forum-goers are interested in a freehold.

I think the OP should relax.

The availability of freeholds for each player was a side concern based off of the main concern. My main concern was if exploring the wilderness will feel like wilderness or just a neighborhood.

Lets compare it to something we're seen recently, the weather tech demo video (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhvQEPuexjg). While watching this video, you'll likely see anywhere from 2 to maybe 10 freeholds during his stroll based off how far the freeholds will render, like the boats in the background. 10 says to me rich suburbs, 2 says rural, and 1-0 means wilderness.

My concern that the map is not big enough to easily find wilderness late in the game still hold due to: "The current design allows placement of freeholds anywhere in the ZOI of the node that the certificate was purchased from, including its vassal nodes. This may change as the result of testing." If they lower the availability so that vassal nodes can not allow freeholds, then the side concern of mine would come into play more.

In the end, one side or another would be disappointed. To alleviate it, I suggested the map to be bigger or put in systems to make both sides happy. It's not that I'd hate the game if they didn't. I'm only bringing up a problem that may arise in the future.

sternzy

Could have swore the topic came up in a video somewhere and something was mentioned about a sort of cloud based freehold where your freehold wouldn't be physicalized in the open game world but basically instanced. Do I remember wrong? Maybe I'm thinking of a different game?

unknownsystemerror

sternzy wrote: »

Could have swore the topic came up in a video somewhere and something was mentioned about a sort of cloud based freehold where your freehold wouldn't be physicalized in the open game world but basically instanced. Do I remember wrong? Maybe I'm thinking of a different game?

Freeholds have been meant to be persistent in the open world. (No instancing) Node settlement apartments are instanced. With that said, many things in development may change. Saying "It will be like this, cause I think so!" is all well and good. But all it takes is for Steven to say something new in the next livestream, and all the pearl clutching and REEEE over this issue or that changes.

Foffer

i just hope there will be wilderness left over and not houses everywhere

TheDarkSorcerer

I would prefer to have housing other than nodes to be instanced. But that's just me.

Voxtrium

It doesn't make sense for IS to let us build a house in the middle of a area they built for farming EXP or resources, that logic alone indicates they will likely give people plenty of wilderness feel and I highly doubt that even 50% of the population will want a freehold. When talking about what might happen you have to give IS the benefit of the doubt, they are clearing not a bunch of trolls developing this game, lets give them the benefit of the doubt that they won't design the game to have freeholds every quarter mile.

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