We need PVE servers here's why

No we dont need PVE servers, get baited.

This is a pvx game, pvp and pve are the core of this game, every system is designed with pvp/pve in mind.
You cant avoid pvp in this game.

Most people think they will be killed all the time by players. That wont happen there are system to prevent constant PK unlike vanilla wow.

Will you get killed in the Open World sometimes? Yes
Will you get ganked in open world dungeons and raids sometimes? Yes
Will you have the freedom to do whatever you want in game? BIG YES

There are risks and rewards in this game. If Frodo went to Mordor in a PVE server would that be fun?NO

This is not about being casual or hardcore, its about freedom. You can PVE only in this game, but expect to be forced into pvp sometimes. But dont come here and ask for PVE servers or a way to avoid pvp when pvp is a core system.

Alpha 2 is meant to test stuff, the PK system will be tested and balanced, so dont ask for reworks or to remove it without it being tested. This is a pvx game stop trying to make it a pve only game please.

Its like going to McDonalds and ask for Pizza because you dont like hamburgers, makes no sense.

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Noaani

Okeydoke wrote: »

Not sure if I've really thought that out correctly but what a ridiculous sounding scenario lol

I'll be honest, I think what is going on here is people that have come from games where crafting alts are not a mainstay simply assume this would be a bad thing, and are trying to come up with scenarios to back up their point.

I can't think of any actual scenario where it will be an issue.

NishUK

Noaani wrote: »

If you are a smith, you want to get as many other people doing these tasks as you can, so that you can focus on the thing that you can do better than them - smithing.

Even if we ignore all of this, what is the difference between the player doing all of those ancillary tasks on that smith, or on a different character? The rewards of all effort go to the player, not the character - so why is this such an issue?
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I'll be honest, I think what is going on here is people that have come from games where crafting alts are not a mainstay simply assume this would be a bad thing, and are trying to come up with scenarios to back up their point.

I can't think of any actual scenario where it will be an issue.

I think this is a just a difference between you and I, you are about unlocking and completing content and I'm all about preserving the sanctity of it.

I'm had crafting/resource collecting alts in UO, Lineage 2 and Archeage and it's not a great thing at all, it simply leads to further chores, self independance, degrades role importance and most importantly leans less on community help.
All in the name of staying competitive...some people enjoy the complete experience but the thing is most are unable to or simple don't like it, I'm the latter, I like the specialist trade I chose, whether thats trade skill or combat and I want to an expert at it with skill and gear that reflects my commitment and if the game isn't deep enough to facilitate that then it's a poor competitive game. I main crafter, with only 1 character, could say exactly the same thing as I just did, with his importance ruined by "well X guild has their own alt crafter, they don't need anything from me".

Also with the smithing, how is a dwarf creating and finding out about rare and great gear from simply going through a levelling process of spamming 100 iron swords or something? He could go on a journey to find knowledge, speak to different nodes needing another language, join a party with adventurer's to research into artifacts which can help him expand his crafting knowledge.

I will always slam alt use, as in the past it's merely been a player extension for more personal wealth and glory, usually favouring people with more time and an mmo is meant to be a community game valueing each other, so let's think towards that...

Noaani

NishUK wrote: »

Also with the smithing, how is a dwarf creating and finding out about rare and great gear from simply going through a levelling process of spamming 100 iron swords or something? He could go on a journey to find knowledge, speak to different nodes needing another language, join a party with adventurer's to research into artifacts which can help him expand his crafting knowledge.

In regards to this - they won't. As I said earlier in this thread, a low level combat/high level crafter won't have access to all recipes.

I will always slam alt use, as in the past it's merely been a player extension for more personal wealth and glory

It can be this to people that are after these things.

However, it can be a source of variety to people that are not after these things.

What your argument here seems to amount to, as far as I can see, is you wanting to be viewed as a strong player/character in the game, but you want to limit what it takes to get to being in that position to being just at where you want it to be.

Adding more depth to player progression (note; not character progression) is an inherently good thing in an MMO. If you do not have it in you to maintain yourself at that level, don't play at that level.

NishUK

Noaani wrote: »

In regards to this - they won't. As I said earlier in this thread, a low level combat/high level crafter won't have access to all recipes.

In a game not being as grindy, as say Lineage 2 where it would take you over 3 months of 8+ hour gameplay everyday to reach an Artisan level to have the capability of learning high end recipes, it appears as those I can't convince you this would heavily devalue the profession/skill.

Noaani wrote: »

However, it can be a source of variety to people that are not after these things.

That is true but I'll say right now that a game isn't fun enough if people naturally lean towards a mulitple character mindset, unless ofc it's branching into a competitive fighting game mindset, where playing different characters you attain more knowledge quicker.

Noaani wrote: »

What your argument here seems to amount to, as far as I can see, is you wanting to be viewed as a strong player/character in the game, but you want to limit what it takes to get to being in that position to being just at where you want it to be.

Well that's incorrect, I want the mastery of a profession/class to almost be limitless, IE someone who has created another character and has achieved max level on this different class and has a decent understanding of its skillset, with relevant gear, would be no where near as reilable (in most cases, pro players can easily break boundaries) as someone who has continued to main it, experiencing tough situations and has natural instincts for their skillset (missile/animation speeds, cooldown timings without looking, reservation knowledge of utilizing high cooldown abilities, natural unity with ally abilities etc).

Noaani wrote: »

Adding more depth to player progression (note; not character progression) is an inherently good thing in an MMO. If you do not have it in you to maintain yourself at that level, don't play at that level.

I'll keep this relatively short, this is huge attitude problem and goes against a healthy and massive mulitplayer competitive game state. I go very hard into competitive games but I'm supportive by nature, judging by your commitment to mmo discussion I know you and me have a lot of time to sink into an mmo but I don't get any real thrill from increasing my profits or power to where the average player cannot reach me.

Dolyem

Noaani wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

How does it drastically change the overall games design to make it so low class level/high artisan level characters can be killed and award corruption based on how high their artisan level is?

Without that in place, it is viable for players to create a character that is a crafter and nothing else.

With it, the above it not viable.

That is a drastic change in the game - at least to some players that enjoy crafting.

It doesn't allow people to avoid PvP mechanics. If I am level 1 in my combat class, you can attack me as *probably* anything up to level 5 in your combat class without suffering anything other than normal corruption penalties.

Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

It does indeed give greater protection seeing as it is a much higher amount of corruption for killing that alt than it is for killing a max level character while still acquiring the same high tier resources, as you said before it provides a much greater deterrence to pvp. It decreases the risk using a low class level alt while not decreasing the reward of the level of gathering.

Again, it does not give greater protection - instead, it increases the risk for PKers.
PKers are not the only threat for Level 1 characters.

So making a character specifically to focus on artisan skill and not level class as to deter other players from killing you due to increased corruption penalty more so than if you were a max class level character doing the same thing, i.e. increasing the risk for PKers as you say....you dont see that as an exploit nor as greater protection? Explain that logic.

Mag7spy

If they make mobs have a very long range on targeting lower levels it will help fix the issue. Even more so if they view a lower level as a higher priority when there is a substantial difference. That will help prevent corruption bombing and gathering holding, etc. Because if they are holding a lot their items will drop and anyone can pick it up.

Okeydoke

Dygz wrote: »

Right. Because all the mobs there will only be Level 1, also.
smdh

Yeah that's one of the tools (high level mobs) the devs have to keep it from becoming meta.
Good lookin out.

Dygz

NishUK wrote: »

I think this is a just a difference between you and I, you are about unlocking and completing content and I'm all about preserving the sanctity of it.

I'm had crafting/resource collecting alts in UO, Lineage 2 and Archeage and it's not a great thing at all, it simply leads to further chores, self independance, degrades role importance and most importantly leans less on community help.

It degrades player interdependance, perhaps. Which is OK.
Doesn't necessarily lean less on community help.
People who rely on alts for Crafting typically do so because they have tons of time to Craft - time when other players are busy doing other stuff or don't have as much time to play.
Makes it easier for the hardcore time Crafters to help the casual time players acquire the items they want.

I don't what "sanctity" is supposed to be preserved since RPGs are intended to have stories based on the actions of the characters. And alts are just multiple characters per player.

Dygz

Dolyem wrote: »

So making a character specifically to focus on artisan skill and not level class as to deter other players from killing you due to increased corruption penalty more so than if you were a max class level character doing the same thing, i.e. increasing the risk for PKers as you say....you dont see that as an exploit nor as greater protection? Explain that logic.

It is neither an exploit nor greater protection.
I've explained that a couple of times already.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

So making a character specifically to focus on artisan skill and not level class as to deter other players from killing you due to increased corruption penalty more so than if you were a max class level character doing the same thing, i.e. increasing the risk for PKers as you say....you dont see that as an exploit nor as greater protection? Explain that logic.

It is neither an exploit nor greater protection.
I've explained that a couple of times already.

All you have said is that it increases risk for PKers, but you havent explained how that isnt an exploit or greater protection compared to being a max class level character doing the same thing.

Dygz

Dolyem wrote: »

Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.

LMAO
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.

LMAO
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.

The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.

Okeydoke

Noaani wrote: »

I can't think of any actual scenario where it will be an issue.

I can definitely think of scenarios. Just depends on if they actually become meta. There are a lot of levers the devs can manipulate to keep some of the more ridiculous scenarios from becoming realities.

Mag7spy

You shouldn't defend this kind of thing thrust me there is no point its going to be used against casual players while doing nothing for you. Nothing everything should be defended like its perfectly fine, people are bringing it up for valid reasons.

Yes adventuring class isn't tied to gather but they are still designing the system and change is always possible if there is ways to exploit something. Just like nif you can make it so you can't pvp a certain low level.
I understand you want to protect the pver experience but that isn't to ga a pve experience to have low level in a high level zone. Though not tied there should be some kind of correlation between gathering and leveling. The same way you can't skin a mob if you can't kill it.

Dolyem

Mag7spy wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.

LMAO
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.

The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.

got to it before I could, thank you

Ferryman

If some players want to use their playing time for different professions that should not be limited imo. Most likely most of the players focus to do some life skills but not using too much time for that. Additionally, some players will not do any professions and focus more on PvE/PvP encounters.

I would be more concerned that best refiners and crafters will be "guild alts" used especially by competitive guilds. Meaning that certain alts will be boosted with tons of resources and recipes. I am not sure if there is a mechanic which prevents this or should there be one. What you guys think?

NishUK

Dygz wrote: »

People who rely on alts for Crafting typically do so because they have tons of time to Craft - time when other players are busy doing other stuff or don't have as much time to play.
Makes it easier for the hardcore time Crafters to help the casual time players acquire the items they want.

I don't what "sanctity" is supposed to be preserved since RPGs are intended to have stories based on the actions of the characters. And alts are just multiple characters per player.

To help the casuals? They are murdering them via enconomy, a competitive mmo with difficult resources and quantities required isn't as pretty as how you dressed that!

I'm not stopping the bored crowd (I'd like to say much more but cba!) from playing multiple characters but content is preserved if there is challenge and commitment on multiple angles.
"RPG intention" is ridiculous, ofc words and actions can have some form of influence on people, not much at all in any serious discussion when good conquest or glory is on the line but "a story", you playing multiple avatars and flavouring a personality isn't a story to anyone but yourself! People come in mmo's, put their imaginary VR headsets on and get absorbed into the world and do whatever they want doing, most come to boogy and get shit done, in a pleasant or not so pleasant manner.

Dygz

Mag7spy wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.

LMAO
That's not true.
Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats.
Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.

The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.

It's not an exploit when it's done and it really can't be done all that much because PKers will not be the only threats in high tier resource areas.
It's actually OK to avoid the 90% of the time for PvP - if you're able to do it.
Steven and Jeffrey have spoken about that.

I have no idea what "pushing gameplay forward" is supposed to mean.

Dygz

NishUK wrote: »

To help the casuals? They are murdering them via enconomy, a competitive mmo with difficult resources and quantities required isn't as pretty as how you dressed that!

To help the causal time players acquire gear.
How is helping casual time players acquire gear "murdering them via economy"?
Who said that Ashes is a "competitive MMO"?

NishUK wrote: »

I'm not stopping the bored crowd (I'd like to say much more but cba!) from playing multiple characters but content is preserved if there is challenge and commitment on multiple angles.

You aren't stopping anything. But, I dunno why you bring up "the bored crowd" - has nothing to do with this topic, as far as I know.

NishUK wrote: »

"RPG intention" is ridiculous, ofc words and actions can have some form of influence on people, not much at all in any serious discussion when good conquest or glory is on the line but "a story", you playing multiple avatars and flavouring a personality isn't a story to anyone but yourself!

You may be focused on good conquest and glory. That doesn't mean that most Ashes players will be focused on that. Especially doesn't mean that most Crafters will be focused on "conquest and glory".

NishUK wrote: »

People come in mmo's, put their imaginary VR headsets on and get absorbed into the world and do whatever they want doing, most come to boogy and get shit done, in a pleasant or not so pleasant manner.

People play MMORPGs for a variety of reasons. Yes.
By get shit done, you must mean use alts so they can easily craft a ton of shit. Yes.

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