Dygz wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design. LMAO That's not true. Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats. Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes. The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward. It's not an exploit when it's done and it really can't be done all that much because PKers will not be the only threats in high tier resource areas. It's actually OK to avoid the 90% of the time for PvP - if you're able to do it. Steven and Jeffrey have spoken about that. I have no idea what "pushing gameplay forward" is supposed to mean.
Mag7spy wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design. LMAO That's not true. Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats. Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes. The only reason to bring a low level to high level areas is 100% to exploit like 90% of the time for pvp. There is no reason for a lvl one to be running around a lvl 40 area and stating there while not able to do anything. That isn't pushing gameplay forward.
Dygz wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design. LMAO That's not true. Again, there will be mobs in those high tier resource areas that are higher than Level 1. PKers are not the only threats. Also, Cafters have roles in PvP Sieges. PvP-flagging is not the only form of PvP in Ashes.
Dolyem wrote: » Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.
Dygz wrote: » The mindset of a PvP player is irrelevant. You are so PvP-biased you completely ignore the relevance of PvE threats wih regard to the efficacy of creating a Level 1 Adventurer/Max Level Crafter. Not that it matters because Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that it is OK for individuals to avoid PvP as close to completely as possible - although they are not willing to guarantee that it's possible for individuals to avoid PvP completely. Bringing a low level with your max level group is not an exploit. And... Crafter levels have absolutley nothing to do with that. People could do that even if Crafter levels did not exist.
Not that it matters because Steven and Jeffrey have already stated that it is OK for individuals to avoid PvP as close to completely as possible - although they are not willing to guarantee that it's possible for individuals to avoid PvP completely.
Mag7spy wrote: » No actually i have a better understanding of things from Both PvP and Pve compared to you. And i can take certain issues and look at them and you honestly are not making sense.
Mag7spy wrote: » You continue to say nonsene that has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make thinking as a PvE player and not the actual issue I'm trying to raise.
Mag7spy wrote: » STOP thinking its you as a friendly PvE player, that is not what anything my point has to do with. I'm talking about PvP players exploiting / using their low level characters to get around system or use systems against other players holy hell.
Mag7spy wrote: » You think my mindset is bias towards PvP when that is not the case, you are so bias you just refuse to listen what people says when you think it relates to pvp affecting you and get overly defenseless. This last part has nothing to do with the current discussion but honestly if you think the onyl issues in a MMORPG that is PvX only relates to PvE issues you are very, very wrong. If you prefer only PvE this game won't be for you. I can't even raise a god damn issue that relates to PvP without you being god damn worried. And yes issues that relate to PvP will effect PvE content, and vis versa and that is just how it is.
NishUK wrote: » That is true but I'll say right now that a game isn't fun enough if people naturally lean towards a mulitple character mindset, unless ofc it's branching into a competitive fighting game mindset, where playing different characters you attain more knowledge quicker.
Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » How does it drastically change the overall games design to make it so low class level/high artisan level characters can be killed and award corruption based on how high their artisan level is? Without that in place, it is viable for players to create a character that is a crafter and nothing else. With it, the above it not viable. That is a drastic change in the game - at least to some players that enjoy crafting. It doesn't allow people to avoid PvP mechanics. If I am level 1 in my combat class, you can attack me as *probably* anything up to level 5 in your combat class without suffering anything other than normal corruption penalties. Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design.
Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » How does it drastically change the overall games design to make it so low class level/high artisan level characters can be killed and award corruption based on how high their artisan level is? Without that in place, it is viable for players to create a character that is a crafter and nothing else. With it, the above it not viable. That is a drastic change in the game - at least to some players that enjoy crafting. It doesn't allow people to avoid PvP mechanics. If I am level 1 in my combat class, you can attack me as *probably* anything up to level 5 in your combat class without suffering anything other than normal corruption penalties.
Dolyem wrote: » How does it drastically change the overall games design to make it so low class level/high artisan level characters can be killed and award corruption based on how high their artisan level is?
Dygz wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » No actually i have a better understanding of things from Both PvP and Pve compared to you. And i can take certain issues and look at them and you honestly are not making sense. Actually, no - don't have a better understanding. Especially since your views of the way the game should be don't match with Steven's views. Mag7spy wrote: » You continue to say nonsene that has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make thinking as a PvE player and not the actual issue I'm trying to raise. You continue to be so ignorant and biased that you can't comprehend the pertinense of how what I said relates to your absurd point. Mag7spy wrote: » STOP thinking its you as a friendly PvE player, that is not what anything my point has to do with. I'm talking about PvP players exploiting / using their low level characters to get around system or use systems against other players holy hell. I keep telling you it's not an exploit. It's not getting around systems. You can say the Earth is flat as many times as you like. Won't make it true. Mag7spy wrote: » You think my mindset is bias towards PvP when that is not the case, you are so bias you just refuse to listen what people says when you think it relates to pvp affecting you and get overly defenseless. This last part has nothing to do with the current discussion but honestly if you think the onyl issues in a MMORPG that is PvX only relates to PvE issues you are very, very wrong. If you prefer only PvE this game won't be for you. I can't even raise a god damn issue that relates to PvP without you being god damn worried. And yes issues that relate to PvP will effect PvE content, and vis versa and that is just how it is. Overly defenseless? Are you so worked up you can't think straight? You mean overly defensive?? Just because you imgine an issue does not mean what you imagined is valid. In this case it's not a valid issue.
Mag7spy wrote: » 1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas 2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it. 3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die 4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely. 1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging. 2. Bait player to flag on your high level. 3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb. 4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » 1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas 2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it. 3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die 4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely. 1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging. 2. Bait player to flag on your high level. 3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb. 4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop The first of these scenarios wouldn't be possible in a game with average or better PvE systems. In most PvE games, a mobs aggro range is determined by the level of the player. If you bring a low level character in to a high level area, you would have every mob for miles attacking them. Since mobs have both ranged attacks and AoE's, there is no viable way a group of players that are the same level as the encounters would be able to keep that low level player alive for long. The second one may indeed be possible, and is something I pointed out to Intrepid about 4 years ago. Their response was that they will see how it goes during testing.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » 1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas 2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it. 3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die 4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely. 1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging. 2. Bait player to flag on your high level. 3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb. 4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop The first of these scenarios wouldn't be possible in a game with average or better PvE systems. In most PvE games, a mobs aggro range is determined by the level of the player. If you bring a low level character in to a high level area, you would have every mob for miles attacking them. Since mobs have both ranged attacks and AoE's, there is no viable way a group of players that are the same level as the encounters would be able to keep that low level player alive for long. The second one may indeed be possible, and is something I pointed out to Intrepid about 4 years ago. Their response was that they will see how it goes during testing. I mentioned that about the PvE systems in a previous post, but just because it can be prevented because of pve situations doesn't mean its not something that we shouldn't be aware of being a possibility, if the pve systems don't do that well enough.
Mag7spy wrote: » I'm not saying what the exact solution should be just raising the point, because when I hear that isn't a exploit my mind is actually blown.
Mag7spy wrote: » Here we go again, i already called you out and you couldn't even answer about these views. Seriosuly stop trying to talk for him you aren't him, use exact quotes Here we go again YES its a exploit, i seriously can't believe you don't understand...you don't play PvP in mmos seriously clearly. It honestly is so frustrating you keep talking about Steven like you know exactly what is going to happen, liek the game is fully done and the systems are all online in game and have been tested without any exploits happening in them. You don't understand a single thing when it comes to PvP and people exploiting is all I see from you. As far as design i have a much better understanding then you, including the fact that things can change in games when they are tested and bringing up red flags is important so things can't be exploited. How to exploit a lowbie for dummies 1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas 2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it. 3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die 4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely. 1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging. 2. Bait player to flag on your high level. 3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb. 4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop
Dygz wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Here we go again, i already called you out and you couldn't even answer about these views. Seriosuly stop trying to talk for him you aren't him, use exact quotes Here we go again YES its a exploit, i seriously can't believe you don't understand...you don't play PvP in mmos seriously clearly. It honestly is so frustrating you keep talking about Steven like you know exactly what is going to happen, liek the game is fully done and the systems are all online in game and have been tested without any exploits happening in them. You don't understand a single thing when it comes to PvP and people exploiting is all I see from you. As far as design i have a much better understanding then you, including the fact that things can change in games when they are tested and bringing up red flags is important so things can't be exploited. How to exploit a lowbie for dummies 1. Bring lowbie with you to high level areas 2. Kill a player with a lot of loot taking the corruption it. 3. Give your gear to the lowbies so you don't lose it all if you were to die 4. Get lowbies back to town with your gear safely. 1. Bring lowbie to a pvp fight if someone is flagging. 2. Bait player to flag on your high level. 3. As you are fighting bring lowbies to corruption bomb. 4. After they are all one shot kill the person that is corrupted and get their equipped gear to drop LMAO You keep calling me out - with worthless, ignorant drek. Um. 2: Even if you give your gear to the lowbie, you still have to work off your Corruption and other death penalties. 3: Dunno how you ensure that you are able to survive combat while you are naked. 4: Who says that you can protect that lowbie from all the mobs in that area? Again you are just making crap up in your head. It's not going to be that easy in the actual game. 2: LMAO! Assuming you find a weak-minded person to take your bait. 3: What's the point of bringing lowbies to the "Corruption bomb"? 4: Why would the attacker not simply ignore the lowbies? Y ou can't accidentally attacka and kill the lowbies. I think you don't understand how PvP flagging works in Ashes. Just because you imagine something in your head, that does mean it works that way in the game.
Mag7spy wrote: » 3 - Even if the lowbie can't make it back and they try on their own without someone to escort them back and kill the mobs. Not all of the items will be dropped on death and it can be picked up by another player. (Compared to a red player having *4 the penalties on death and most likely dropping most the material he just pked off someone.) 4.No crap is being made and we don't know how it will be in the game as the game isn't out yet stop assuming things. Again even if you die you won't lose everything. This isnt a random meta you do against strangers of course you pick your target well that will give you some big drops and kill a few people.
Mag7spy wrote: » 2. Why are you laughing...you don't understand pvp nor how creative people can be. You use a rogue class or one that can teleport (Yes we know they won't have full invis) You pick a good location so they aren't aware the lowbies run it. Eevn if this si 40% effective you can't mess around with equipped gear dropping..... 3. Please don't be like this please your your brain if you are going to talk crap. You understand the corruption please just think why you would bomb. 4. The point is for them to show up mid fight while people are flagged, of course they don't know, that is the whole point,..
Mag7spy wrote: » I've played more mmorpgs then you i understand how things can work. With how things will work in game that we don't know so we can only raise flags to people can be aware of things that can happen and they can make sure the least amount of exploits are used.
Mag7spy wrote: » Honestly I feel you aren't helping convos while your point right here is you thinking things can't happen and not understanding the true mind set of all elements people will use in PvP. Like im trying to figure out why you are arguing on this, you could be throwing solutions instead regardless if you believe it will happen or not.
Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » How does it drastically change the overall games design to make it so low class level/high artisan level characters can be killed and award corruption based on how high their artisan level is? Without that in place, it is viable for players to create a character that is a crafter and nothing else. With it, the above it not viable. That is a drastic change in the game - at least to some players that enjoy crafting. It doesn't allow people to avoid PvP mechanics. If I am level 1 in my combat class, you can attack me as *probably* anything up to level 5 in your combat class without suffering anything other than normal corruption penalties. Being a crafter and nothing else isn't very PvX for a game that is being designed to require both PVP and PVE to progress in game hahaha. If anything, what youre proposing is in direct conflict with the games intended design. You are missing my point. I am not proposing anything. I am simply talking about what Intrepid have said the intent is.
Otr wrote: » I see that the discussion was mostly about ALTS and if somebody can have a crafting ALT. Maybe it can have but to be a very proficient at crafting, it should be citizen of a Scientific node, which give benefits to artisanshttps://ashesofcreation.wiki/Scientific_nodes
Otr wrote: » Those who are good crafters will not get the benefits for being good at selling those goods, which require to be citizen on an Economic Node. But owning multiple accounts is allowed.
Dygz wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » 3 - Even if the lowbie can't make it back and they try on their own without someone to escort them back and kill the mobs. Not all of the items will be dropped on death and it can be picked up by another player. (Compared to a red player having *4 the penalties on death and most likely dropping most the material he just pked off someone.) 4.No crap is being made and we don't know how it will be in the game as the game isn't out yet stop assuming things. Again even if you die you won't lose everything. This isnt a random meta you do against strangers of course you pick your target well that will give you some big drops and kill a few people. 3 - The lowbie will not be dropping gear in any case since they won't be Corrupted. I don't understand what point you are tryng to make here. It's completely moot and does not support your ludicrous concept. 4 - I'm not the one assuming things. I'm telling you what the game design is. You have not supported your inane concept at all. Your not telling me "how PvP works", your just demonstrating how your addled imagination works. Mag7spy wrote: » 2. Why are you laughing...you don't understand pvp nor how creative people can be. You use a rogue class or one that can teleport (Yes we know they won't have full invis) You pick a good location so they aren't aware the lowbies run it. Eevn if this si 40% effective you can't mess around with equipped gear dropping..... 3. Please don't be like this please your your brain if you are going to talk crap. You understand the corruption please just think why you would bomb. 4. The point is for them to show up mid fight while people are flagged, of course they don't know, that is the whole point,.. 2 - What??? There are lowbies at the location. Let's say they are "running it". Let's say they are Invisible, so rival players aren't aware of them. 3 - I don't understand the "Corruption Bomb". How does the "Corruption Bomb" work? 4 - The invisible lowbies show up mid fight and... do what? If they are invisble they cannot be attacked by the rival players. You have to willfully target individual players in order to flag against them for PvP. You cannot accidentally target a player and flag against them. Once the lowbies reveal themselves, their levels and gear can be checked to see if they are worth the risk of attacking. But if the lowbies are not attacking, they can be ignored. Again --- you don't understand the Ashes game design. Mag7spy wrote: » I've played more mmorpgs then you i understand how things can work. With how things will work in game that we don't know so we can only raise flags to people can be aware of things that can happen and they can make sure the least amount of exploits are used. But, you don't understand the Ashes flagging system. Mag7spy wrote: » Honestly I feel you aren't helping convos while your point right here is you thinking things can't happen and not understanding the true mind set of all elements people will use in PvP. Like im trying to figure out why you are arguing on this, you could be throwing solutions instead regardless if you believe it will happen or not. You cannot help conversations if you do not understand the Ashes game design. Doesn't matter how many other MMORPGs you've played.
