We need PVE servers here's why

No we dont need PVE servers, get baited.

This is a pvx game, pvp and pve are the core of this game, every system is designed with pvp/pve in mind.
You cant avoid pvp in this game.

Most people think they will be killed all the time by players. That wont happen there are system to prevent constant PK unlike vanilla wow.

Will you get killed in the Open World sometimes? Yes
Will you get ganked in open world dungeons and raids sometimes? Yes
Will you have the freedom to do whatever you want in game? BIG YES

There are risks and rewards in this game. If Frodo went to Mordor in a PVE server would that be fun?NO

This is not about being casual or hardcore, its about freedom. You can PVE only in this game, but expect to be forced into pvp sometimes. But dont come here and ask for PVE servers or a way to avoid pvp when pvp is a core system.

Alpha 2 is meant to test stuff, the PK system will be tested and balanced, so dont ask for reworks or to remove it without it being tested. This is a pvx game stop trying to make it a pve only game please.

Its like going to McDonalds and ask for Pizza because you dont like hamburgers, makes no sense.

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Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

So you are telling me if you have spells that target a location they do nothing against the player? That would raise other issues also including your basic attack not doing any damage.

Yes, aoes don't dmg non-combatants. And it's not an issue. It's intended design to avoid exactly the exploit you were trying to use to argue against Dygz.

Wish that was mentioned earlier.... will be interested to see how that works with the abilities in the game. Means you will need to use certain skills and potential be at a disadvantage if they flag back, though I'm unsure on limits of skills and how it will look at with the ui.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Wish that was mentioned earlier.... will be interested to see how that works with the abilities in the game. Means you will need to use certain skills and potential be at a disadvantage if they flag back, though I'm unsure on limits of skills and how it will look at with the ui.

It hasn't been mentioned because usually we like to assume that when someone suggests a change to the planned design, they know said design. This flagging system has been known since the very beginning afaik, because it was taken and improved from L2.

And what kind of disadvantage would you be in? If you're flagging on a person - you've made the first hit, unless that person has already flagged against you. And any lowbie won't kill you with just one hit, just as you shouldn't be able to do the same to them, so no disadvantage there either.

And if you're in a mass pvp where everyone is flagged, your aoes will be hitting all the flagged people.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Wish that was mentioned earlier.... will be interested to see how that works with the abilities in the game. Means you will need to use certain skills and potential be at a disadvantage if they flag back, though I'm unsure on limits of skills and how it will look at with the ui.

It hasn't been mentioned because usually we like to assume that when someone suggests a change to the planned design, they know said design. This flagging system has been known since the very beginning afaik, because it was taken and improved from L2.

And what kind of disadvantage would you be in? If you're flagging on a person - you've made the first hit, unless that person has already flagged against you. And any lowbie won't kill you with just one hit, just as you shouldn't be able to do the same to them, so no disadvantage there either.

And if you're in a mass pvp where everyone is flagged, your aoes will be hitting all the flagged people.

What change in designed was mentioned by me here? Maybe I missed something but my point was about people trying to bypass some corruption drawbacks and corruption bombing with lower levels?

Also this is a big mmorpg no one is going to remember every detail perfectly, if we go based off assumptions everyone knows every system by head we wont get anywhere and that would be ego.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

What change in designed was mentioned by me here? Maybe I missed something but my point was about people trying to bypass some corruption drawbacks and corruption bombing with lower levels?

Nah, I misspoke, my bad.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Also this is a big mmorpg no one is going to remember every detail perfectly, if we go based off assumptions everyone knows every system by head we wont get anywhere and that would be ego.

The only assumption here is "if you're talking about a mechanic - you can at least look up how it works". Especially when you blame someone else for not understanding said mechanic, like you did with Dygz. That's where the ego comes in.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

What change in designed was mentioned by me here? Maybe I missed something but my point was about people trying to bypass some corruption drawbacks and corruption bombing with lower levels?

Nah, I misspoke, my bad.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Also this is a big mmorpg no one is going to remember every detail perfectly, if we go based off assumptions everyone knows every system by head we wont get anywhere and that would be ego.

The only assumption here is "if you're talking about a mechanic - you can at least look up how it works". Especially when you blame someone else for not understanding said mechanic, like you did with Dygz. That's where the ego comes in.

Me not knowing something a certain detail I don't view as ego, it would be more so if I wasn't open to hearing other aspects and knew I couldn't be wrong no matter what. I simply spoke ont he information I had while someone saying the designs on there but not actually stating what design would stop that.

He simply could have said what exact design prevented corruption bombing and choose not to.

*Ie I understand where you are coming from with corruption bombing but that can't happen because of this and this.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Me not knowing something a certain detail I don't view as ego, it would be more so if I wasn't open to hearing other aspects and knew I couldn't be wrong no matter what. I simply spoke ont he information I had while someone saying the designs on there but not actually stating what design would stop that.

He simply could have said what exact design prevented corruption bombing and choose not to.

*Ie I understand where you are coming from with corruption bombing but that can't happen because of this and this.

As I saw it, Dygz didn't even know what that phrase meant, which is why he didn't know what and how to explain. And unless I missed it, you didn't explain to him what you meant by it. I know of that phrase because I've heard about it from the BDO players and could reverse-logic it out from what was "flag bombing" in L2, but not everyone has that kind of experience/knowledge. Especially in the case of Dygz whose pvp experience is limited to event/goal-based things, which never have these kinds of interactions.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Me not knowing something a certain detail I don't view as ego, it would be more so if I wasn't open to hearing other aspects and knew I couldn't be wrong no matter what. I simply spoke ont he information I had while someone saying the designs on there but not actually stating what design would stop that.

He simply could have said what exact design prevented corruption bombing and choose not to.

*Ie I understand where you are coming from with corruption bombing but that can't happen because of this and this.

As I saw it, Dygz didn't even know what that phrase meant, which is why he didn't know what and how to explain. And unless I missed it, you didn't explain to him what you meant by it. I know of that phrase because I've heard about it from the BDO players and could reverse-logic it out from what was "flag bombing" in L2, but not everyone has that kind of experience/knowledge. Especially in the case of Dygz whose pvp experience is limited to event/goal-based things, which never have these kinds of interactions.

Guess you have a point, wasted too much time on that game.

Dygz

Mag7spy wrote: »

Wish that was mentioned earlier.... will be interested to see how that works with the abilities in the game.

I tried to explain that to you:

Dygz wrote: »

3: What's the point of bringing lowbies to the "Corruption bomb"?
4: Why would the attacker not simply ignore the lowbies? You can't accidentally attack and kill the lowbies.

I think you don't understand how PvP flagging works in Ashes.
Just because you imagine something in your head, that does mean it works that way in the game.

Dygz wrote: »

2 - What??? There are lowbies at the location. Let's say they are "running it". Let's say they are Invisible, so rival players aren't aware of them.
3 - I don't understand the "Corruption Bomb". How does the "Corruption Bomb" work?
4 - The invisible lowbies show up mid fight and... do what? If they are invisble they cannot be attacked by the rival players. You have to willfully target individual players in order to flag against them for PvP. You cannot accidentally target a player and flag against them.
Once the lowbies reveal themselves, their levels and gear can be checked to see if they are worth the risk of attacking. But if the lowbies are not attacking, they can be ignored.
Again --- you don't understand the Ashes game design.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Wish that was mentioned earlier.... will be interested to see how that works with the abilities in the game.

I tried to explain that to you:

Dygz wrote: »

3: What's the point of bringing lowbies to the "Corruption bomb"?
4: Why would the attacker not simply ignore the lowbies? You can't accidentally attack and kill the lowbies.

I think you don't understand how PvP flagging works in Ashes.
Just because you imagine something in your head, that does mean it works that way in the game.

That can be misinterpreted as you choose to flag and hit people and you should realize not to attack a lowbie by unflagging.

Compared to if you said it is designed so AOE can not hit non combatant targets so there for trying to forcefully lower someone's corruption with a alt would be difficult or not possible.

We can move on from this point though.

Dygz

In the Ashes game design, you can't unflag. Especially not during combat.
I told you that you didn't know how PvP flagging works in Ashes. You could have asked for more info or checked the wiki for more info.

But, you decided I was an ass and you knew better than I did.
That's all about your ego.

Dygz wrote: »

I think you just have to spend more time assessing where people agree with you in addition to where they don't.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

I think you just have to spend more time assessing where people agree with you in addition to where they don't.

In the Ashes game design, you can't unflag. Especially not during combat.
I told you that you didn't know how PvP flagging works in Ashes. You could have asked for more info or checked the wiki for more info.

But, you decided I was an ass and you knew better than I did.
That's all about your ego.

Here we go agaaaain.

At what point did I talk about unflagging during combat.

My points are corruption Bombing, and people giving away gear/mats to not lose it if they gain corrupting after killing people allowing alt or low level take it back to town.

Only ego here is yours as I was done with the point as I was given info on one of the major concerns i had, and you are cycling back to flagging and making no sense to me. It doesn't matter if you can't unflagged unless you go back to town.

Honestly don't say go check the wiki cause you don't know. If i have a problem explain it and use the wiki why that isn't a thing. If your method is telling everyone in a discussion to check every piece of information or don't talk about it, that sounds like ego to me.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Compared to if you said it is designed so AOE can not hit non combatant targets so there for trying to forcefully lower someone's corruption with a alt would be difficult or not possible

It's also not a BDO karma system of +-. It's a binary system of "you're either corrupted (red) or not". And then if you are corrupted, there's the severity of penalty depending on how much corruption you have. So you don't decrease someone else's corruption, you increase it by dying to them w/o attacking them.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Compared to if you said it is designed so AOE can not hit non combatant targets so there for trying to forcefully lower someone's corruption with a alt would be difficult or not possible

It's also not a BDO karma system of +-. It's a binary system of "you're either corrupted (red) or not". And then if you are corrupted, there's the severity of penalty depending on how much corruption you have. So you don't decrease someone else's corruption, you increase it by dying to them w/o attacking them.

That corruption number is a + though and a dangerous one.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

That corruption number is a + though and a dangerous one.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean here.

Dygz

Mag7spy wrote: »

At what point did I talk about unflagging during combat.

Mag7spy wrote: »

That can be misinterpreted as you choose to flag and hit people and you should realize not to attack a lowbie by unflagging.

That also is not possible in the Ashes game design - even if you misinterpreted what I meant.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

That corruption number is a + though and a dangerous one.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean here.

By killing more people you gain more corruption.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

By killing more people you gain more corruption.

Ah, yes, if you continue killing non-combatants, you'll be in deeper shit.

PenguinPaladin

I didnt reallize this whole thread was for @Mag7spy and @Dygz to argue... ill see myself out.

Ludullu

Otr wrote: »

The good part is that is enough to ruin a PvE's day by killing him only once
With just one such kill, bounty hunters will not see you and you can run away with the loot and clean the corruption.

Imagine somebody else killing that PvE player again once he filled his mule with resources

PKers will already be limited in their quantity. On top of that each new kill on a PKer will give them more and more corruption (that is if the PK count removal is real hard and expensive). And on top of that PKing super casuals, whose day would in fact be ruined by a single death, will be even rarer because there'd be no benefit in doing so, which limits the amount of PKers would do that even more.

Also, killing the mule is the same as killing a character, so you'll get double the corruption if you do that. Which will put you deeper into the hole.

Ludullu

Otr wrote: »

You maybe use the PK to refer to players who kill for pleasure?
I see only the economic benefit.
If valuable resources spawn near a few nodes, those citizens will not see others coming from across the map to collect them.

I see PKers as just that - people who kill other people w/o their victims fighting back. Anything else is a pvper.

Otr wrote: »

I am curios... do the caravans show who is transporting resources?
You may end up protecting the caravans of both your citizens and enemy guild players too, if they mix togheter anonymously.

Don't think we have info on that. We know that Caravans will indicate what they're carrying through visuals, but don't think we've heard anything about other indicators. That could be a good question for the stream.

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