Trading should be disabled just like in Black Desert Online. Cmon, hear me out!

Hey guys!
Follow me with this, think about it!
Many MMORPG failed because:
1. No content or just simply a bad game.
2. Pay to win from cash shop.
3. Gold selling.

I'm gonna tackle just the 3rd one, Gold selling in this post.

No one, literally no one can make a game 100% bot proof (auto farmer bots). No matter the system in place, there will always be someone smarter than them to get around the system.
The only way to stop them is to just disable trading between players and market prices are dynamically fixed (minimum and maximum price of a item) by an automated systems that takes into account the whole prices put by the players or just simply manually put them by the admins.

Black Desert online now survived just because this. Everything you have you your account is purely your work (or teamwork).
Archeage was a perfect game at it's roots, you had almost everything you wanted from a MMORPG and failed because of cash shop the first round and then because of the gold selling. One player could simply kill 10 players in one shot because of its P2W gear.

I know it takes allot of fun out of the game, I realize this but this is the only way that someone tested until now and it works.

Gold selling is an industry now, very profitable and there are huge sums of $$ to gain from it. They will ruin the industry if we let them.

Think about it, all the MMORPGs are doomed to fail because of the artificial player progression (gold selling or cash shop).

MMORPGs are games for hardcore players mostly, it takes time, guts and brains to be in the front. This is at the foundation of any MMORPG.

AOC has the chance to change the market and I hope it does.

I salute you!

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Comments

Wildberry

I'd rather they didn't make it where you can't trade. I'm big into crafting in games and I often do personal crafts. One player gives me the mats and a small fee and I craft their item and give it to them. With no trading that won't be possible.

Ratta

Just make a game that requires half a brain cell to earn gold and you will make it significantly harder for gold sellers. For example, Lost Ark struggles with this because they have a game mode with infinite grind potential that's super easy to bot. That's it, that's the majority of gold sellers. I'm not saying it would be easy, but it's not impossible either.

Dareow

The only good solution is to create or allow systems for players to punish other players for gold farming or bot behavior.

For ex.
Taxes or only allowing "non black market trades" in the cities/nodes would help mitigate this. Imagine that gold or gear is marked if it was transferred outside a node. In that case it would be "targeted" by future game economic systems to shun this behavior. If traded inside the city then the city could implement a tax to discourage large transactions. Also if managers of the city (players or GMs) could banish or target the black market as an event then the tagged goods mentioned earlier could change the players rep and allow the players to punish the other players.

Tex

Wildberry wrote: »

I'd rather they didn't make it where you can't trade. I'm big into crafting in games and I often do personal crafts. One player gives me the mats and a small fee and I craft their item and give it to them. With no trading that won't be possible.

I love that to, I know what you're saying.
But what is the point of a good game if it;s dead because of gold selling?
Archeage was almost perfect in craft, trade, PVP, mass PVP, class uniqueness, high risk high reward and it's dead because of gold selling. One person could not be killed by 80 players, and he could just kill 10 players in 2 seconds. He ran away to wait for it;s CDs then came back and kill another 10 players.

Tryol

Turning off important systems just because malicious users might interface them is something I would only expect from companies who are solely profit oriented and doesn't care at all about the integrity of their game at all. Thankfully this does not seem to be the case with Intrepid so far.

I'd argue that having mechanics taken away from normal players just because there is a chance they could be used for malicious things can ultimately lead to a worse overall experience than leaving the mechanics in and letting the community figure things out.

Although definitely more expensive (in every sense of the word), building monitoring systems and having an active Support/GM team is the best possible way to handle something like gold trading or bots. This is also what Intrepid seems to be going for.

Steven pledging to have an active and robust GM team to me is one of the biggest standalone proofs that he knows what he is doing in general.

BaSkA_9x2

BDO has no trading because it would hurt the P2W, anything else is simply an excuse that shills for that game love to repeat.

Gold selling is not hard to detect if you put enough effort into it and if the game is designed in a way to help it.

Having worked with fraud detection software in the past I can think of a handful of simple pattern recognition algorithms to detect potentially suspicious trades, and I'm sure Intrepid is capable of creating many more and much more sophisticated ones (especially if the game logs information such as IP, HWID, MAC address, character or account "balance" [i.e. how much gold one has gained or lost during trades], etc for every trade between players). With all that information, update the account "gold selling score" that tells how likely it is for an account to be involved in RMT.

Everything up to this point is automated. Now comes the part most companies don't give a shit: pay real people to determine which accounts with a high score are involved in RMT and which ones are false-positives. Then, proceed to manually run a couple of more consuming and complex algorithms to find and ban all parties involved.

I only speak for myself, but I would bet many people would say the same: I won't play an MMORPG without player to player trading.

Happymeal2415

Tex wrote: »

Wildberry wrote: »

I'd rather they didn't make it where you can't trade. I'm big into crafting in games and I often do personal crafts. One player gives me the mats and a small fee and I craft their item and give it to them. With no trading that won't be possible.

I love that to, I know what you're saying.
But what is the point of a good game if it;s dead because of gold selling?
Archeage was almost perfect in craft, trade, PVP, mass PVP, class uniqueness, high risk high reward and it's dead because of gold selling. One person could not be killed by 80 players, and he could just kill 10 players in 2 seconds. He ran away to wait for it;s CDs then came back and kill another 10 players.

Did you get your crystal ball off amazon or somewhere else? I'd like to buy one

bigepeen

OP actually has a good point. I don't know how Intrepid is going to deal with the bots and gold selling, but if it gets out of control it can certainly make the game p2w and ruin the game. Direct player to player trading makes it easy to make selling gold very difficult to detect by using proxy accounts and such.

Mag7spy

bigepeen wrote: »

OP actually has a good point. I don't know how Intrepid is going to deal with the bots and gold selling, but if it gets out of control it can certainly make the game p2w and ruin the game. Direct player to player trading makes it easy to make selling gold very difficult to detect by using proxy accounts and such.

Bdo had plenty of bots, a subscription model greatly reduces them

Jahlon

Tex wrote: »

Hey guys!
Follow me with this, think about it!
Many MMORPG failed because:
1. No content or just simply a bad game.
2. Pay to win from cash shop.
3. Gold selling.

I'm gonna tackle just the 3rd one, Gold selling in this post.

No one, literally no one can make a game 100% bot proof (auto farmer bots). No matter the system in place, there will always be someone smarter than them to get around the system.
The only way to stop them is to just disable trading between players and market prices are dynamically fixed (minimum and maximum price of a item) by an automated systems that takes into account the whole prices put by the players or just simply manually put them by the admins.

Black Desert online now survived just because this. Everything you have you your account is purely your work (or teamwork).
Archeage was a perfect game at it's roots, you had almost everything you wanted from a MMORPG and failed because of cash shop the first round and then because of the gold selling. One player could simply kill 10 players in one shot because of its P2W gear.

I know it takes allot of fun out of the game, I realize this but this is the only way that someone tested until now and it works.

Gold selling is an industry now, very profitable and there are huge sums of $$ to gain from it. They will ruin the industry if we let them.

Think about it, all the MMORPGs are doomed to fail because of the artificial player progression (gold selling or cash shop).

MMORPGs are games for hardcore players mostly, it takes time, guts and brains to be in the front. This is at the foundation of any MMORPG.

AOC has the chance to change the market and I hope it does.

I salute you!

Let me think about that one for a second. NOOOOOOO

Tex

Jahlon wrote: »

Tex wrote: »

Hey guys!
Follow me with this, think about it!
Many MMORPG failed because:
1. No content or just simply a bad game.
2. Pay to win from cash shop.
3. Gold selling.

I'm gonna tackle just the 3rd one, Gold selling in this post.

No one, literally no one can make a game 100% bot proof (auto farmer bots). No matter the system in place, there will always be someone smarter than them to get around the system.
The only way to stop them is to just disable trading between players and market prices are dynamically fixed (minimum and maximum price of a item) by an automated systems that takes into account the whole prices put by the players or just simply manually put them by the admins.

Black Desert online now survived just because this. Everything you have you your account is purely your work (or teamwork).
Archeage was a perfect game at it's roots, you had almost everything you wanted from a MMORPG and failed because of cash shop the first round and then because of the gold selling. One player could simply kill 10 players in one shot because of its P2W gear.

I know it takes allot of fun out of the game, I realize this but this is the only way that someone tested until now and it works.

Gold selling is an industry now, very profitable and there are huge sums of $$ to gain from it. They will ruin the industry if we let them.

Think about it, all the MMORPGs are doomed to fail because of the artificial player progression (gold selling or cash shop).

MMORPGs are games for hardcore players mostly, it takes time, guts and brains to be in the front. This is at the foundation of any MMORPG.

AOC has the chance to change the market and I hope it does.

I salute you!

Let me think about that one for a second. NOOOOOOO

To be sincere, I expect more arguments from you.
You are not this kind of person.

Maybe I have a bad idea with no trading between players, but the fact is, gold selling and bots ruins any sandbox games.

Tex

Another ideea
For example make on server with trade another with no trade.
Or one server for casuals and another for hardcore players where everything is hard to obtain anything and nothing p2w.

This way, the companies can make cash from the p2w server and keep population in hard servers. They can test better what tactic to make.

Let's make this topic a brainstorm.
Are you guys not bored of flaming?

Caww

A game should not be wreaked just to stop bots and no player trading would ruin the core game play for crafters.

truelyyy

It could potentially work somewhat in other games but in ashes trading will be a massive part of it and literally won't work without it so no

daveywavey

Tex wrote: »

To be sincere, I expect more arguments from you.
You are not this kind of a guy.

To be fair, if it hadn't been a troll question, he'd probably have given a better answer.

Tex

daveywavey wrote: »

Tex wrote: »

To be sincere, I expect more arguments from you.
You are not this kind of a guy.

To be fair, if it hadn't been a troll question, he'd probably have given a better answer.

I raised a problem, and we need to think about it.
As i said, i know what trading is for a MMORPG especially AOC and that it's the backbone of the game.
The first solution that came to my mind was stop trading.
But keep in mind, in BDO the only way to trade between players it's thru the auction house that has fixed prices for every item (i think it's an automated system that increases/decreases the price range based on demand). You cannot select from who to buy in AH, it takes at random one from all the sellers/buyers
I'm ok if someone says that it's a bad idea if they come with another solution/argument better than mine.

You cannot police the bots and trading, you need an army of Game Masters to do this and still fail.
Just look at Blizzard with WOW, even they with their big budget could not stop the gold sellers. And in WOW you could not buy top gear but you could buy boosts in raids and pvp and subscription.

Guys this will kill the game, no mater how good it is.

Tex

truely wrote: »

It could potentially work somewhat in other games but in ashes trading will be a massive part of it and literally won't work without it so no

Then it's doomed to die unfortunately.

Happymeal2415

Tex wrote: »

truely wrote: »

It could potentially work somewhat in other games but in ashes trading will be a massive part of it and literally won't work without it so no

Then it's doomed to die unfortunately.

Ahhh another crystal ball
Where do people keep getting these. I want one

Caww

Tex wrote: »

Then it's doomed to die unfortunately.

so early??

Tex

Based on the experience of other MMORPGs, unfortunately yes.

P.S. Can you guys just stop trolling?
You are not able to participate at a discussion like mature human beings?

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