I don't like action combat, and it could very potentially stop me from playing

I haven't played it yet, so I'm not drawing any sort of line yet. But steven asked for feedback about if we are going in a positive direction, and I'm just gonna say that every action combat korean type mmo I've ever played I have absolutely hated. I am tab target 100%, I think action combat only works from an overhead 3rd person perspective like diablo or league of legends or lost ark. I don't want to aim my ability's honestly, If I use a sword and get animation locked, and at the same time I'm required to dodge some kind of skill shot. I'm not gonna be happy. If I miss a spell as a spell caster because my mouse was 4 pixels off, same thing. Tab targeting let's me focus on what I think matters.

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iccer

NyxiLeon wrote: »

Imo Ashes of Creation devs should release a video update about the tab-targeting combat system, to reassure that huge amount of players that really were not satisfied with what they watched.

And it should be a caster class, because I don’t expect for example an healer to be more action-combat oriented.

Most efficient healing skills have always been : targeting your targets, proceed to healing (single or aoe).

I think they will expand upon this in the coming months, this was just the melee basic ability preview.
I'm confident that the ranged classes, mainly healers, will focus more on tab targeting. I just want them to stay clear off GW2s way of handling support and healing, as its just awful. Everyone is just stacking in the same spot.

falcorpix

Otr wrote: »

Must be how their neural networks are made.

Yeah, i guess that is a problem, in korea they all 5ms ping, so its easier.

Most western companies arent really doing anything to improve the issue, not only for MMOs but other games.
The only one I know of doing something to improve networking is Riot Games, with their Riot Direct system, I dont really understand the specifics, but im usually at 60ms for most central european servers, including riot's before the implementation of Riot Direct, but after it im now at 40ms. Plus there are other advantages, not just improved ping.

Really curious how this can improve the action combat for the MMO they are making.

Mag7spy

NyxiLeon wrote: »

Imo Ashes of Creation devs should release a video update about the tab-targeting combat system, to reassure that huge amount of players that really were not satisfied with what they watched.

And it should be a caster class, because I don’t expect for example an healer to be more action-combat oriented.

Most efficient healing skills have always been : tab/click-targeting your allies, proceed to healing (single or aoe).

Huge amount of players are voicing their feedback on the forums and you could see the spamming in the twitch chat in the video. People like this direction, where is the huge amount of people that are saying other wise, i haven't seen that many.

People just want good combat that is fun to play, there isn't really a huge out cry they are doing something wrong.

Selo

iccer wrote: »

With action-combat and animation-canceling in PvP situations, it just means you are primarily relying on great reactions, you need to spam many buttons (high APM gameplay). Rather than primarily relying on strategy, positioning, decision making (whether or not to cast certain ability, etc.).
Again, if I wanted to play this type of PvP, I'd play MOBAs, not MMORPGs.

.

And that is why i dont like fast paced action combat. 60 year old Henry will have no chance keeping up with 20 year old Steven.
The wast majority of players are 40+
They dont want to train 10 hours a day to hone their skills to be competative in PvP and never beeing able to be as good as a 20 year old due to natural circumstances.
Tab Target combat is way better for balance than a twitchy high APM combat style.

Mag7spy

Selo wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

With action-combat and animation-canceling in PvP situations, it just means you are primarily relying on great reactions, you need to spam many buttons (high APM gameplay). Rather than primarily relying on strategy, positioning, decision making (whether or not to cast certain ability, etc.).
Again, if I wanted to play this type of PvP, I'd play MOBAs, not MMORPGs.

.

And that is why i dont like fast paced action combat. 60 year old Henry will have no chance keeping up with 20 year old Steven.
The wast majority of players are 40+
They dont want to train 10 hours a day to hone their skills to be competative in PvP and never beeing able to be as good as a 20 year old due to natural circumstances.
Tab Target combat is way better for balance than a twitchy high APM combat style.

If the vast majority of players are 40+ then there is a fair skill curve for them and you won't see that many 20 year olds to worry about.

Honestly i don't get this argument or the stats either, plenty of people younger then 40 play mmorpgs, and even if it was mainly only 40+. There is a huge market of people that are younger than 40 to tap into.

All i see with these is im old and i want a tab target mmo without a skill curve and I can just use gear to kill people and not have to aim a single skill.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Honestly i don't get this argument or the stats either, plenty of people younger then 40 play mmorpgs, and even if it was mainly only 40+. There is a huge market of people that are younger than 40 to tap into.

while it is true that there is a lot of people younger than 40 that play MMO's, Ashes is attempting to be something of a homage to older games.

As such, its target audience is those older MMO players.

If Ashes doesn't attract an audience of people that were playing MMOs before WoW, it is not likely to attract an audience of people that started playing them after - not without changing what the core goal of the game is.

Elder

Noaani wrote: »

while it is true that there is a lot of people younger than 40 that play MMO's, Ashes is attempting to be something of a homage to older games.

As such, its target audience is those older MMO players.

If Ashes doesn't attract an audience of people that were playing MMOs before WoW, it is not likely to attract an audience of people that started playing them after - not without changing what the core goal of the game is.

@Noaani AoC's target audience isn't any one demographic. To think otherwise could potentially be the result of a narrow mindset.

Anyone can appreciate well designed and implemented mechanics without being a MMO veteran.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Honestly i don't get this argument or the stats either, plenty of people younger then 40 play mmorpgs, and even if it was mainly only 40+. There is a huge market of people that are younger than 40 to tap into.

while it is true that there is a lot of people younger than 40 that play MMO's, Ashes is attempting to be something of a homage to older games.

As such, its target audience is those older MMO players.

If Ashes doesn't attract an audience of people that were playing MMOs before WoW, it is not likely to attract an audience of people that started playing them after - not without changing what the core goal of the game is.

..... what? Most my guild are under 40 lmao.

falcorpix

Selo wrote: »

And that is why i dont like fast paced action combat. 60 year old Henry will have no chance keeping up with 20 year old Steven.
The wast majority of players are 40+
They dont want to train 10 hours a day to hone their skills to be competative in PvP and never beeing able to be as good as a 20 year old due to natural circumstances.
Tab Target combat is way better for balance than a twitchy high APM combat style.

... The vast majority of people arent 40+ boomers, at best the vast majority of people here on the forums and people closely following the game's development might be boomers.

A lot of us here are hopium infused boomers wanting to relive "the golden age" of MMORPGs, when the game launches the majority of the player base will be people that havent even heard about the game yet at this time.
Big part of them wont even have played an MMORPG before.

That is why Intrepid can't simply rely on "forum majority", even if most of the people here want tab-target combat and slower paced combat, that doesnt represent the actual playerbase the game will have.

Noaani

Elder wrote: »

Noaani AoC's target audience isn't any one demographic. To think otherwise could potentially be the result of a narrow mindset.

Anyone can appreciate well designed and implemented mechanics without being a MMO veteran.

I dont think you understand the concept of a target audience.

Having a target audience doesnt mean others are suddenly unwelcome.

If you are making a game based on the notion that modern MMO's aren't as good as older MMO's (which is what Ashes is), then your target audience is others that also think modern MMO's aren't as good as older MMO's.

You dont make that game for people that really enjoy current MMO's, and want more of the same, or want the genre to continue moving in that same direction.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Honestly i don't get this argument or the stats either, plenty of people younger then 40 play mmorpgs, and even if it was mainly only 40+. There is a huge market of people that are younger than 40 to tap into.

while it is true that there is a lot of people younger than 40 that play MMO's, Ashes is attempting to be something of a homage to older games.

As such, its target audience is those older MMO players.

If Ashes doesn't attract an audience of people that were playing MMOs before WoW, it is not likely to attract an audience of people that started playing them after - not without changing what the core goal of the game is.

..... what? Most my guild are under 40 lmao.

That doesnt surprise me.

You have clearly not had enough people in your life that will tell you to shut up because you dont know what you are talking about.

This tells me a lot about the kind of people you spend time with.

Chocometeor

If the game looks good people will play it.
not only 40+ veterans. I think this will open the MMO genre for many newcommer too.
I dont even know where this nonsense is coming from.

Noaani

Izzetin wrote: »

If the game looks good people will play it.
not only 40+ veterans. I think this will open the MMO genre for many newcommer too.
I dont even know where this nonsense is coming from.

No one said people that are outside of the target audience won't play it.

The idea that this was said or suggested is the only nonsense here - and like you, I have no idea where it is coming from.

Elder

Noaani wrote: »

Elder wrote: »

Noaani AoC's target audience isn't any one demographic. To think otherwise could potentially be the result of a narrow mindset.

Anyone can appreciate well designed and implemented mechanics without being a MMO veteran.

I dont think you understand the concept of a target audience.

Having a target audience doesnt mean others are suddenly unwelcome.

If you are making a game based on the notion that modern MMO's aren't as good as older MMO's (which is what Ashes is), then your target audience is others that also think modern MMO's aren't as good as older MMO's.

You dont make that game for people that really enjoy current MMO's, and want more of the same, or want the genre to continue moving in that same direction.

I think you're misunderstanding my point of view. I'll clarify some of my points. AoC's target audience isn't any one selection of the MMO demographic, It purposely and thoughtfully designed to appeal to a wide range of the MMO demographic.

IS has taken inspiration from older MMO's, yes, but has also taken inspiration from more modern MMO's and strides to iterate on their mechanics, polish and fidelity.

This game may possibly not appeal to the majority of players still dedicated to WoW or one of it's various clones. But there are plenty of popular and relatively modern/current MMO's out there with comparable systems, mechanics and gameplay.

I believe you're assuming that because someone may have only played more modern MMO's or were too young to appreciate older MMO's that this game isn't being purposely designed by IS to target their interest. This I find ridiculous considering how many specific design decisions are comparable to some modern/current MMO's, how responsive to feedback IS has been, and lastly, how inclusive and expansive the plans for content and the world are.

Noaani

Elder wrote: »

AoC's target audience isn't any one selection of the MMO demographic,

I'm just going to reiterate that I dont think you understand what a target audience actually is.

I mean, if you want to argue that Ashes doesnt have one at all, that's something you can attempt. But what you are trying to say here is that Ashes has a target audience, but it isn't actually a target audience.

By definition, a target audience is a specific demographic. You cant say that a products target audience is t a specific demographic, because no specific demographic means no target audience.

Fact is, Ashes is a niche game. It isn't aiming to appeal to all MMO players - that has never been Steven's goal.

Elder

Noaani wrote: »

Elder wrote: »

AoC's target audience isn't any one selection of the MMO demographic,

I'm just going to reiterate that I dont think you understand what a target audience actually is.

I mean, if you want to argue that Ashes doesnt have one at all, that's something you can attempt. But what you are trying to say here is that Ashes has a target audience, but it isn't actually a target audience.

By definition, a target audience is a specific demographic. You cant say that a products target audience is t a specific demographic, because no specific demographic means no target audience.

Fact is, Ashes is a niche game. It isn't aiming to appeal to all MMO players - that has never been Steven's goal.

It's not uncommon for businesses to have more than one target audience or ideal customer.

AoC has more than one target audience. I would have thought that was quite obviously my point. But it seems like you're interested in arguing about semantics so I'll be excusing myself.

Neox365

If you dont like Action Combat simply dont play

Dygz

Otr wrote: »

He said that this combat style from the stream is the result of feedback taken from Alpha 1.

"We've taken combat feedback, specifically from Alpha 1, and we've tried to iterate upon that feedback and present it in such a with this video that gives you context for those basic weapon feelings, those root foundational types of movement and pacings that exist.
So. Keep that in mind. When content creators are relaying this information to audiences who are not as familiar with the project, let them know this is just to focus on the basic weapons attacks.
It is focusing on that aspect of combat.
We will unveil additional aspects of combat being ability systems, class rotations, we'll talk about the VFX pipeline and how that advances with te ability system as well...
Those are going to be additional beats that we hit leading up to next the few months."
---Steven

Dygz

Otr wrote: »

Ok. I checked the "combat-clarifications-have-feedback-and-thoughts-on-combat-click-here-first" where I found the link to this video...

https://youtu.be/V_hsJPB8y7k?t=963

where somebody dies and the healer said "It's really difficult to target people"

I mean... that's what Hallowed Ground is for.

Selo

Mag7spy wrote: »

Honestly i don't get this argument or the stats either, plenty of people younger then 40 play mmorpgs, and even if it was mainly only 40+. There is a huge market of people that are younger than 40 to tap into.

All i see with these is im old and i want a tab target mmo without a skill curve and I can just use gear to kill people and not have to aim a single skill.

My argument was that you want to make a system that most are ok with and can compete with.
You can be very skilled in a tab target game aswell.

Im perfectly aware that actionbased combat has a much higher skill ceiling, but that is not always a good thing when it comes to making a game for the broader audiance.

You can make an "easier" combatsystem but still make it much more involved than action combat by using tactics, timing your skills etc rather than pushing the most buttons per second while zooming all over the battlefield.

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