Jail and bounty hunter as punishment for corrupted players

I love all the concepts of AOC. It seems to me to be the MMORPG that the players give the freedom, possibility, responsibility and social interactions back that are missing in almost all today's MMORPG.

The only system, as far as I inform me, is the PvP Flagged system (non-combat, combat, corrupted). It will probably be a good system to punish Ganker, but I am against that the system itself (by debuffs, gradation of equipment, half-loot drop) punishes the Corrupted players. This would be an automated system, similar to BDO, that players would take responsibility and possibility to solve such problems.

Instead, I would like the punishment to be shifted to the Bounty Hunter System with the addition of a player driven jail system (similar to Archeage).

The Corrupted Player would not only have the Bounty Hunter as a punishment, but also the prison, depending on the severity of his crime.

This would bring significantly more responsibility and social interactions to the players than a currupt system that weakens you with debuffs and bounty hunters who kill you. After that there would be no consequences.

In order for all of this to work, the bounty hunters must also be rewarded very well, so that there are more bounty hunters than Ganker.

What do u guys think about that?

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Comments

Theplague4u

Mag7spy wrote: »

All i saw was you could be in jail for a whole day, that was the moment this idea was trash.

I have to agree. That's a nutty punishment.

PenguinPaladin

Otr wrote: »

Sylvanar wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

Also why use the word "ganking" for something which is normal PvP?
The fun of one player is to fight. Why take that fun away?
I would rather create areas on the map where the peaceful player can have fun too and be protected by strong NPCs. And another area where PvP-ers can fight as much as they want without getting corruption, until they get the daily amount of PvP fun they need and go and do PvX with everybody.
For some reason players on this forum do not like this suggestion.

Your suggestion would create a PvP zone and PvE zone.

AoC is a PvX game. So this zoning thing falls flat right here. PvX is not optional. Sure you can take measures to play what you want but you cant segregate yourself from the world with 100% certainty. AoC is not for people who want PvE exclusively. They need to find other games.

The corruption penalties are not defined.
Can be harsh to prevent any form of non-consensual PvP (even if theoretically would be possible) or can be forgiving enough to allow enough kills / day to drive away players.
How do you please @Sylvanar those who want harsher penalties and those who want tolerant penalties?

Those who want tollerant penalties just fight people who fight back. There is literally no issues unless you want to repeatedly kill people unwilling to fight back.

PenguinPaladin

Otr wrote: »

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

Sylvanar wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

Also why use the word "ganking" for something which is normal PvP?
The fun of one player is to fight. Why take that fun away?
I would rather create areas on the map where the peaceful player can have fun too and be protected by strong NPCs. And another area where PvP-ers can fight as much as they want without getting corruption, until they get the daily amount of PvP fun they need and go and do PvX with everybody.
For some reason players on this forum do not like this suggestion.

Your suggestion would create a PvP zone and PvE zone.

AoC is a PvX game. So this zoning thing falls flat right here. PvX is not optional. Sure you can take measures to play what you want but you cant segregate yourself from the world with 100% certainty. AoC is not for people who want PvE exclusively. They need to find other games.

The corruption penalties are not defined.
Can be harsh to prevent any form of non-consensual PvP (even if theoretically would be possible) or can be forgiving enough to allow enough kills / day to drive away players.
How do you please @Sylvanar those who want harsher penalties and those who want tolerant penalties?

Those who want tollerant penalties just fight people who fight back. There is literally no issues unless you want to repeatedly kill people unwilling to fight back.

You assume some people will fight back but maybe many will not. At least not when you want them to fight back. Later when they are willing to fight, you might be somewhere else. It depends on how the distribution of those who want to fight is on the map.
Also this is not only about fight but about risk and reward. When one sees the risk to lose, will deny the reward from the other one who would win.

So now you want to argue points? On someone elses thread. Wow.

Kovrm

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

Good. A jail system is fucking stupid. Soft-bans and unable to play because you killed some carebear ass player? Hell naw.

Sylvanar

Otr wrote: »

How do you please @Sylvanar those who want harsher penalties and those who want tolerant penalties?

You don't. I already said whomever can't compromise with the game needs to find other games to play. No game can be an ideal game for everyone. It is as simple as that.

Steven too has said that AoC isn't for everyone.

Otr wrote: »

I see often such topics being discussed by players from their own narrow point of view, how they will play the game and if they will enjoy it that way or not. Very few seem to be interested to analyze from the point of view of the game designer who is supposed to bring together players with different expectations.

Games PoV is PvX. Your PoV is PvP and PvE separate. You want to change the pillars on which the game is based on i.e. open world PvP.

Griefing isn't banned in AoC. It is discouraged. There is a difference and this is why corruption is designed the way it is currently. As far as the numbers are concerned, there is still a lot of testing needed to be done for them to be finalized and the game is nowhere close to release.

This is all I have to say on this topic. I cant simplify or word it any other way nor do I care to.

Sophisticus

I have read through all the statements against this idea up to here. I have the impression that most of them miss my intention. My intention is to turn an automated punishment system to a player driven one. How far and how long the punishment goes in prison, i not care. We can develop this together. But most of them do not fail because you disagree about how long you can be in prison or how, but because of the idea itself. One of the two important points is that it is punishing enough. The other point is that it is fun simultaneously (Obviously not for everyone) and bring players more to communicate.

What many do not understand is that I not only see punishment in this system, but fun. This is exactly the missing PoV switching that @Otr describe. For some players, this jail system can be content that they like to pursue every day (role playing as a jury). For the other it is "waste of time". Why should the punishment of a player not have fun for the other player? Apart from all the possibilities of abuse. maybe its not fun for some player. they just want a good punishment system, without complications, effective and impactful.The goal seems to be just to be punished, why the benefits for such is less than a disadvantage. Of course, the current system is more suitable for only punishment.

What is more important?: having the feeling of "wasted" some players time or the fun of some players that role play and also punish players for their crime?

I am basically against compromises. That is the reason why most of today's MMORPG's feel the same for me. There are all a pure compromise. But that's just my PoV.

Mag7spy

I dont view that as fun.

PenguinPaladin

Sophisticus wrote: »

What many do not understand is that I not only see punishment in this system, but fun. This is exactly the missing PoV switching that @Otr describe. For some players, this jail system can be content that they like to pursue every day (role playing as a jury). For the other it is "waste of time". Why should the punishment of a player not have fun for the other player?

Why should the punishment of a player not be fun for another player? Along this thought process, griefing is acceptable. You are just punishing another person for your entertainment.

I think the idea is meaningless, because i dont have any interest at all at geting jailed. Stuck waiting for an rping jurry to be called in. And then going through the "system". Just to sit in time out. If you want to RP then more power to you, no systems that force me to RP should exist. If you can find enough of an RP community on your server, then go ahead and do mock trials.

And you and otr seem to have an issue with pov shifting. You seem to think that a discussion should be everyone switching to what you want, and supporting or being constructive towards your pov. But thats not the case. Its on you to make your pov appealing, and to counter all of the arguments to protect your case... its not my job to take your idea and fix it for you, if i dont like it to begin with.

Dygz

Yeah...your intention is to have a prison.
That's all we need to know.

Sophisticus

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Why should the punishment of a player not be fun for another player? Along this thought process, griefing is acceptable. You are just punishing another person for your entertainment.

I think the idea is meaningless, because i dont have any interest at all at geting jailed. Stuck waiting for an rping jurry to be called in. And then going through the "system". Just to sit in time out. If you want to RP then more power to you, no systems that force me to RP should exist. If you can find enough of an RP community on your server, then go ahead and do mock trials.

And you and otr seem to have an issue with pov shifting. You seem to think that a discussion should be everyone switching to what you want, and supporting or being constructive towards your pov. But thats not the case. Its on you to make your pov appealing, and to counter all of the arguments to protect your case... its not my job to take your idea and fix it for you, if i dont like it to begin with.

I don't want you to take my PoV so that you are in my opinion, but to understand me. Everything else is pointless. Its like a mathematician is discussing with someone who claims that numbers do not exist. Every basis is missing to discuss.

Sophisticus

Dygz wrote: »

Yeah...your intention is to have a prison.
That's all we need to know.

This is apparently everything you see. I see something else

PenguinPaladin

Sophisticus wrote: »

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Why should the punishment of a player not be fun for another player? Along this thought process, griefing is acceptable. You are just punishing another person for your entertainment.

I think the idea is meaningless, because i dont have any interest at all at geting jailed. Stuck waiting for an rping jurry to be called in. And then going through the "system". Just to sit in time out. If you want to RP then more power to you, no systems that force me to RP should exist. If you can find enough of an RP community on your server, then go ahead and do mock trials.

And you and otr seem to have an issue with pov shifting. You seem to think that a discussion should be everyone switching to what you want, and supporting or being constructive towards your pov. But thats not the case. Its on you to make your pov appealing, and to counter all of the arguments to protect your case... its not my job to take your idea and fix it for you, if i dont like it to begin with.

I don't want you to take my PoV so that you are in my opinion, but to understand me. Everything else is pointless. Its like a mathematician is discussing with someone who claims that numbers do not exist. Every basis is missing to discuss.

Do... what im suggesting...... and counter a single point.

I dont think i should be forced into a court system to satiate RP. What is your take on this? Do you have one?

What is to prevent jailing to be abused, making it either meaningless, or overpunishing?

Is this just a concept made in order to remove the negatives to being currupted in an attempt to make existing as a currupted player more available and less of a punishment?

Dygz

Sophisticus wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Yeah...your intention is to have a prison.
That's all we need to know.

This is apparently everything you see. I see something else

So... it is not your intention to have a prison?

Sophisticus wrote: »

The Corrupted Player would not only have the Bounty Hunter as a punishment, but also the prison, depending on the severity of his crime.

I see that you wrote that the Corrupted player would be in prison.
But, if I mis-inferred and you are saying that Ashes should not have a prison - we agree.

Dolyem

So I guess killing the player isnt enough punishment?

Mag7spy

All i see if a Prison and i heard you can be inside that prison for a whole day. Don't need to know anything else, benefits or rp stuff. You lost me at prison and had me crazy at one whole day.

If a system is designed to prevent people from playing the game, it means the design has failed. Be it one hour or even more so if it was one day. If you want to rp someone going to jail d that on the server with your guild, people do that stuff in GTA.

Solvryn

I rather a fleshed out corruption system than AA jail time again.

CROW3

@Sophisticus

Brass tacks: we understand your idea, we just don’t agree with it. Sorry, man.

Dygz

Well, I'm not sure that it's quite negative reputation for attacking Caravans. Whether it's negative or positive depends on the POV of your allies. Caravans - everyone is a Combatant.

But, Corrupted will be treated like a monster - especially by NPCs.
Bounty Hunters.
Family Teleports are disabled.
Player trading is disabled.

There's already stuff that Corrupted can't do.
But they aren't stuck in a cell doing nothing.
They can actively work on removing their Corruption and, if they choose, redeeming themselves.

Also, since the Corrupted apparently loves PvP so much, no prison means they are in the open world available for PvP, rather than removed from PvP while they are stuck in a cell.

Dygz

There is a score for successful attacks and successful defense.
Who considers those postitive rep or negative rep will depend on who your allies are.
That is for Node-related Caravans - and who considers your successes positive or negative will depend on who your allies are.

"Citizens of nodes that fall under the purview of the castle are automatically registered as defenders of these Caravans and may not participate in attacks against them."
---Steven

Enigmatic Sage

No, jail is just over kill in my opinion. There were discussion one point about something similar to cheaters so the public can see but it could come off quite discriminative iirc as it was put. I wouldve just went more grim and have hanging trees, gallows, something like those examples lol.

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