I don't like action combat, and it could very potentially stop me from playing

I haven't played it yet, so I'm not drawing any sort of line yet. But steven asked for feedback about if we are going in a positive direction, and I'm just gonna say that every action combat korean type mmo I've ever played I have absolutely hated. I am tab target 100%, I think action combat only works from an overhead 3rd person perspective like diablo or league of legends or lost ark. I don't want to aim my ability's honestly, If I use a sword and get animation locked, and at the same time I'm required to dodge some kind of skill shot. I'm not gonna be happy. If I miss a spell as a spell caster because my mouse was 4 pixels off, same thing. Tab targeting let's me focus on what I think matters.

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Mag7spy

CROW3 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Nah, EQ2 PvP is shit, and BDO is shit.

We've agreed like 3 times this month. That has to be a new record. Go us!

I still think it's worth the two of you hopping into Discord and talking through the games while playing together. You'd think I'm being sarcastic, but I do think it would actually allow you to talk with each other instead of at each other.

Just my 2 cents.

Normally Id agree if two people cold talk and agree at each others point and see both ways. Where i am fien understanding point, ask what can be done and accept the information as its pointed out. That has been mostly a one way street where points i bring up he says doesn't matter nor listen to understand my own view point. I'd rather just flag up in game at this point but ill have to wait for release and see what servers people are on.

On top of him with the under handed comments, its not even about understating the view point its about who is right else points I've brought up would have been thought about and understood where I was coming from.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Lol, You are still making arguments about this when you don't know anything about BDO and don't care about the mechanics in the game. Also conveniently forgets saying action combat shouldn't get buffs vrs tab. Imagine saying BDO is shit because you are actually "Shit" at the game and don't understand it c:

If you are going to proclaim on these forums that you think BDO is a good game, you are going to find yourself feeling somewhat lonely.

The general consensus around here is that the game has a few good points, but is over all a shit game.

The fact that my opinion happens to line up with the general consensus here is just convenient for me, I guess.

You are right that I don't care about the mechanics in the game, but wrong in saying that I don't know anything about them.

Keep in mind - and I have tried in vain to point this out to you already - you are making arguments about EQ2 here as well. You can't say positioning in BDO is more important than it is in EQ2 without talking about EQ2's systems and gameplay.

So, once again, if you want to say that I am making arguments about BDO when I don't know anything about them and don't care, then why is it you are making the same arguments about EQ2 when you have literally never even played the game?

I mean, you are having a go at me for doing something I am not actually doing, but that you are doing in relation to EQ2. Once again, I have played BDO long enough to have an opinion on the game - and this is coming from someone that knows enough about games to not have an opinion on them until you have played their top end content that is released two to three years after launch (usually the best content an MMO will have).

Noaani

CROW3 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Nah, EQ2 PvP is shit, and BDO is shit.

We've agreed like 3 times this month. That has to be a new record. Go us!

I still think it's worth the two of you hopping into Discord and talking through the games while playing together. You'd think I'm being sarcastic, but I do think it would actually allow you to talk with each other instead of at each other.

Just my 2 cents.

If it was someone I had any respect at all for, I'd consider it.

I'm not considering it.

Kai37

Mag7spy wrote: »

You are literately the guy who thinks tab target where your skills hit enemies without you requiring the aim isn't an advantage over action combat.

Just my 2 cents on this, it depends if they use a system where tab has a prediction engine or if it actually just locks on and guarantees that it will connect.
If they decide that tab targeting will aim and shoot but is still subject to missing due to direction changes, dodging, line of sight or other targets intercepting then it very well could be much worse than action based abilities that wouldn't rely on such exploitable mechanics.

As I said in my previous post, we really need to see the tab skills that come out and how they work before we can finish this discussion properly.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Lol, You are still making arguments about this when you don't know anything about BDO and don't care about the mechanics in the game. Also conveniently forgets saying action combat shouldn't get buffs vrs tab. Imagine saying BDO is shit because you are actually "Shit" at the game and don't understand it c:

If you are going to proclaim on these forums that you think BDO is a good game, you are going to find yourself feeling somewhat lonely.

The general consensus around here is that the game has a few good points, but is over all a shit game.

The fact that my opinion happens to line up with the general consensus here is just convenient for me, I guess.

You are right that I don't care about the mechanics in the game, but wrong in saying that I don't know anything about them.

Keep in mind - and I have tried in vain to point this out to you already - you are making arguments about EQ2 here as well. You can't say positioning in BDO is more important than it is in EQ2 without talking about EQ2's systems and gameplay.

So, once again, if you want to say that I am making arguments about BDO when I don't know anything about them and don't care, then why is it you are making the same arguments about EQ2 when you have literally never even played the game?

I mean, you are having a go at me for doing something I am not actually doing, but that you are doing in relation to EQ2. Once again, I have played BDO long enough to have an opinion on the game - and this is coming from someone that knows enough about games to not have an opinion on them until you have played their top end content that is released two to three years after launch (usually the best content an MMO will have).

You have not played BDO long enough to know enough about the game again you disregard major facts of gameplay and I needed to explain it to you. If you are a pve player you haven't played BDO's combat stop lying to save face.

Mag7spy

He doesn't have respect if he feels EQ2 is threaten my modern games on any kind of element. He slings more insults then can show any kind of evidence to back up his statements c:

Dygz

Again, Tab Target still has a miss chance.
Tab means your target is locked onto - that's not a guaranteed hit. So, while the targeting is guaranteed in a way that Action Combat is not - actual hit is not more guaranteed than Action Combat.
Especially not compared to those who have excellent player twitch skills.
For a game with Hybrid Combat - we should expect those to be balanced.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

Again, Tab Target still has a miss chance.
Tab means your target is locked onto - that's not a guaranteed hit. So, while the targeting is guaranteed in a way that Action Combat is not - actual hit is not more guaranteed than Action Combat.

If anything, sometimes it's easier to hit someone in action combat than in tab, cause evasive builds can get quite absurd.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Again, Tab Target still has a miss chance.
Tab means your target is locked onto - that's not a guaranteed hit. So, while the targeting is guaranteed in a way that Action Combat is not - actual hit is not more guaranteed than Action Combat.

If anything, sometimes it's easier to hit someone in action combat than in tab, cause evasive builds can get quite absurd.

When people say evasion builds matter more in tab and you hit more in action but will never look at combat in other games...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6BMbKLUqSA

@Dygz @PenguinPaladin Since you both liked the comment.

Dygz

Um. It's absurd to disregard key qualifier words, like sometimes, and then reframe the statement to a generalization.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

Um. It's absurd to disregard key qualifier words, like sometimes, and then reframe the statement to a generalization.

nitpicking

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

When people say evasion builds matter more in tab and you hit more in action but will never look at combat in other games.

I don't remember if I've stated this outright before, but, on the off chance I haven't, here it is: I find it unbelievably dumb to have evasion in an action combat game. Why da hell do you build your game around physical player skill and then literally fuck it all up by introducing system-based evasion to it. So to me, the fact that BDO also has evasion sounds just like a huge negative rather than smth to praise.

And when it comes to hybrid, I personally would be completely fine if my tab attacks had a chance to miss, while my action attacks would always hit on target if I hit that target with my attack.

PenguinPaladin

Mag7spy wrote: »

When people say evasion builds matter more in tab and you hit more in action but will never look at combat in other games...

By "other games" he means bdo, of course. Like the one mmo everyone said was trash so i never tried it. Sorry man. I dont know bdo.

Dygz

It's not nitpicking. Especially when someone states sometimes, and then you not only reframe that as generalization, but ante up with the accusation, "you never look at action combat in other games."
That's actually you arguing just argue - via a strawman fallacy.

Mag7spy

Dead game cause of p2w this also has evasion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3b6xS0zG28

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

When people say evasion builds matter more in tab and you hit more in action but will never look at combat in other games.

I don't remember if I've stated this outright before, but, on the off chance I haven't, here it is: I find it unbelievably dumb to have evasion in an action combat game. Why da hell do you build your game around physical player skill and then literally fuck it all up by introducing system-based evasion to it. So to me, the fact that BDO also has evasion sounds just like a huge negative rather than smth to praise.

And when it comes to hybrid, I personally would be completely fine if my tab attacks had a chance to miss, while my action attacks would always hit on target if I hit that target with my attack.

Its not dumb its a mmorpg, you keep thinking of those types as action mages, they are mmorpgs with action combat. It is state based and player skill it isn't a "fuck up". Your move have miss chance in hybrid as well as stated in the AoC wiki.

The difference between action and tab is you need to actually hit your target, stats and such are all applied ontop as well as a mmorpg should have. Arguing against it is really just so you can continue to say tab has more stats when that isn't true. It is however they choose to design something it is not native to any one system. You can do tab without evasion stats and have it tied to skill technically and the use of iframes as well.

What do people want from mmorpg, build customization and stats. All types of players enjoy that kind of stuff

Mag7spy

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

When people say evasion builds matter more in tab and you hit more in action but will never look at combat in other games...

By "other games" he means bdo, of course. Like the one mmo everyone said was trash so i never tried it. Sorry man. I dont know bdo.

I'm sorry that you don't know it, but that is why I need to share with proof as well that these kinds of things exist. There just hasnt been a new action mmo made since 2015 or any mmo to be honest. Unless it is some small one people aren't really playing (minus new world and elyon of course)

Mag7spy

Blade and soul also has evasion stats https://bladeandsoul.fandom.com/wiki/Evasion(Stat)

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Lol, You are still making arguments about this when you don't know anything about BDO and don't care about the mechanics in the game. Also conveniently forgets saying action combat shouldn't get buffs vrs tab. Imagine saying BDO is shit because you are actually "Shit" at the game and don't understand it c:

If you are going to proclaim on these forums that you think BDO is a good game, you are going to find yourself feeling somewhat lonely.

The general consensus around here is that the game has a few good points, but is over all a shit game.

The fact that my opinion happens to line up with the general consensus here is just convenient for me, I guess.

You are right that I don't care about the mechanics in the game, but wrong in saying that I don't know anything about them.

Keep in mind - and I have tried in vain to point this out to you already - you are making arguments about EQ2 here as well. You can't say positioning in BDO is more important than it is in EQ2 without talking about EQ2's systems and gameplay.

So, once again, if you want to say that I am making arguments about BDO when I don't know anything about them and don't care, then why is it you are making the same arguments about EQ2 when you have literally never even played the game?

I mean, you are having a go at me for doing something I am not actually doing, but that you are doing in relation to EQ2. Once again, I have played BDO long enough to have an opinion on the game - and this is coming from someone that knows enough about games to not have an opinion on them until you have played their top end content that is released two to three years after launch (usually the best content an MMO will have).

You have not played BDO long enough to know enough about the game again you disregard major facts of gameplay and I needed to explain it to you. If you are a pve player you haven't played BDO's combat stop lying to save face.

No, you have just assumed you needed to explain aspects of BDO to me since I disagreed with you. That is your only justification for it.

Fun fact, I have played around 45 MMO's all up. BDO is the game I have spent the fourth most time in. Truth is, I probably know the game better than you, but you aren't interested in that. I have a different opinion on the game to you, and so you think that means I haven't played the game enough - as opposed to the truth which is that I have simply played better games and so saw BDO's bullshit for what it is.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

When people say evasion builds matter more in tab and you hit more in action but will never look at combat in other games.

I don't remember if I've stated this outright before, but, on the off chance I haven't, here it is: I find it unbelievably dumb to have evasion in an action combat game. Why da hell do you build your game around physical player skill and then literally fuck it all up by introducing system-based evasion to it. So to me, the fact that BDO also has evasion sounds just like a huge negative rather than smth to praise.

And when it comes to hybrid, I personally would be completely fine if my tab attacks had a chance to miss, while my action attacks would always hit on target if I hit that target with my attack.

An Action Combat game can reasonably implement evasion by using soft lock/sticky reticle targeting and simply applying the Evasion relative to center mass/hurtbox center of the target. This would create a situation in which positional changes as a result of attacks both in PvP and PvE would work as 'accuracy debuff' for people who are very skilled and 'detarget' for those who are less skilled or for whom the fight is harder somehow.

The stat itself can then remain the same in PvP and PvE, and Tab Target can be used relative to the stat directly.

It also creates an interesting situation where even if Action is given an advantage in any other way (I wouldn't perceive anything required beyond this, personally), the optimal PvE Action Combat DPS build against powerful slow moving targets would involve 'resistance to knockback/smack-around mechanics' as a substitute for Accuracy, and a natural stat for Tanks who would want to be resistant to this so that any 'Action Healing' would be more reliable on them.

The main problem with this is that the optimal way of doing it, I feel would be slightly better suited to a GPU calculation than a CPU one, but they already have to make a calculation for 'two enemies are in front of you shoulder-to-shoulder, you fire a single target ability precisely between their heads'.

We've got Planetside devs available, I hear...

Noaani

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

When people say evasion builds matter more in tab and you hit more in action but will never look at combat in other games...

By "other games" he means bdo, of course. Like the one mmo everyone said was trash so i never tried it. Sorry man. I dont know bdo.

Consider this to be to your benefit.

BDO has no redeeming qualities. The few things it did that could have been good, it fucked up royally.

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