Maxed Jobs and new jobs

Hi everyone,
So in AoC, you would only be able to maxe out around 3* out of the 22* jobs.
but if you can max out a job lets say in 250-500 hours windows, there is a problem, because, in some MMO I allready have more than 5k hours of game. so after some time I would see less and less groth from my character.
So, here I'm proposing an alternative :
- first I understand that you are only limited in the upper tier of jobs. what I understand is you can do ALL the jobs but lets say it as 5 tiers by jobs, you can only go up to T3 for all jobs and only up to T5 in 3* as your specialisation
- What i'm proposing is , when you start to specialise in a jobs, your stuck in that jobs UNTIL you have it maxed out. and you can only specilise in 3* jobs at the same time.
Like that when you have "finished" the specialisation you can pic a new specialisation and continue you character.
YES, like that you could be maxed in all jobs , but MAN after 5k hours don't I EARNED the right to have more maxed spe ?
to be more specifique :
1) you can only upgrade 3* specialisation at once
2) you CANNOT change specialisation until it's finished
3) when you reach lv max of a specialisation, you can now pic a new specialisation

* it's the anouced number and can be subject to change.
PS : this system would be possible ONLY if jobs/spe have a level max, else juste ignore my post

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Ludullu

This would just lead to 0 high lvl market trading. All the hardcore players who can level all the professions to the max will then be able to do everything themselves and will no longer require the help of other people. And considering that high lvl crafting will still need low level resources, if high lvls can get all those resources themselves (and probably even faster/better) - there's no need to trade with low lvl players who're trying to sell their stuff. At least I know that I'd do exactly that if I could max out every artisan profession.

And this would only get worse the further you go into the future of the game. More and more players will become self-reliant and the game will start becoming less and less social in that regard.

insomnia

Dreugui

Otr wrote: »

I am not a fan of one character can do everything concept.
I prefer players to have to create alts.

and what's the difference, you juste have to creat alt to have the same result, isnt it just borring ? and a lost of time ?

NiKr wrote: »

This would just lead to 0 high lvl market trading. All the hardcore players who can level all the professions to the max will then be able to do everything themselves and will no longer require the help of other people. And considering that high lvl crafting will still need low level resources, if high lvls can get all those resources themselves (and probably even faster/better) - there's no need to trade with low lvl players who're trying to sell their stuff. At least I know that I'd do exactly that if I could max out every artisan profession.

And this would only get worse the further you go into the future of the game. More and more players will become self-reliant and the game will start becoming less and less social in that regard.

effectively I didn't see it that way, but , you still need to have some benefit to have a long play. or else you'll juste have to creat alts, and in that case, you STILL will be able to do ALL by your-selfe, you juste will have to switch character each time you need to do something else.

Taleof2Cities

Crafted gear is going to be best-in-slot, @Dreugui … so the time investment you put in on another alt character will be well worth it.

Regardless, crafting specialization is a core feature of the game and something Steven is unlikely to change.

If you want to do all crafting on one character, there are definitely other MMOs that can satisfy that craving.

Ludullu

Dreugui wrote: »

effectively I didn't see it that way, but , you still need to have some benefit to have a long play. or else you'll juste have to creat alts, and in that case, you STILL will be able to do ALL by your-selfe, you juste will have to switch character each time you need to do something else.

And it's on Intrepid to design the game in such a way that you have your hands full with other stuff and simply don't have the time to level up all the other artisan professions. I'm not sure if they'll succeed in this, but they alleged that they wanna at least try.

And as for alts and stuff. I personally like when I'm known for a particular action/skill/deed in my community. If I'm the best crafter around, everyone will point at me when asked "who can craft this thing for me?". But if I can do literally everything, then it dilutes any given achievement. And it also completely destroys any kind of uniqueness of any player. And while alts do provide you with an ability to do everything yourself, you're also free to present those alts as separate characters from your main. Your main could be the goodest boi around crafting stuff for free, while your gatherer might be the cruelest PKer around killing everyone who takes as much as one step towards a flower that you wanted to collect.

TheClimbTo1

Otr wrote: »

I am not a fan of one character can do everything concept.
I prefer players to have to create alts.

I don't like creating alts. I'd much rather work with a group to handle all the needs.

Dreugui

Yes, even if you could do all On one character, alts is allwayse good, change of RP, change of class, or just want to go back on casual lv to have some "relaxing time".

so for the big issue here , I come back to wat i've said

Dreugui wrote: »

PS : this system would be possible ONLY if jobs/spe have a level max, else juste ignore my post

so the "best" way to not have to seek alts ( for jobs only ) would be an "infinit" growth on jobs, on some jobs I don't realy see how to achive but, in smithing, it would be , beter stats on stuff, or just beter luck to craft a beter quality, but ... well it would make the "best" blackmith stuff maybe unbalance the game at some point ?

well, anyway It was just ideas , and it's when many ideas are put together and you brainstorm that most of the best ideas are created !

Ludullu

Dreugui wrote: »

Yso the "best" way to not have to seek alts ( for jobs only ) would be an "infinit" growth on jobs, on some jobs I don't realy see how to achive but, in smithing, it would be , beter stats on stuff, or just beter luck to craft a beter quality, but ... well it would make the "best" blackmith stuff maybe unbalance the game at some point ?

I meaaaan, for the goal of the game, the best approach would be to just restrict anyone to only 1 char per account (ideally with a full multi-pc ban). Because this way you'd really push people to join the community and rely on each other.

But obviously that'll never happen cause people would go crazy if they couldn't make an alt. But if intrepid paces their artisan leveling and expansion release properly, and adds content related to all artisan branches in a meaningful way - then we'll have no real problems. But obviously that's a very difficult thing to do.

Dreugui

yes, i think it's that the bigest problem, juste at some point how to make a jobs don't loose it's atractiveness even if i've spend more that 1k hours playing. else
1) if alts arent possible, i'll juste quit the game
2) if alts are possible, i'll juste do alts from possibly the begining and so I could just go with multi-alt to have all the jobs I want and play "solo".

but, the question is, how you do to have a "constant" progression constantly even after hundreds of hours. "new content", meaning what ? new crops to farm ? new weapon to craft ? new BP* to discover ? yea, well just add a new BP* is not really atractive.
I really hope AoC devs have a really profound look on this problematic and I realy hope they will surpise us ( in the good way ) because I don't want to fall in the first possibility.

*BP = blueprint
ps : have a nice day guys !

Nerror

I love character progression too, and sure, if we can have endless character progression, that would be cool. That's not the main focus of this game though.

It's possible we'll run out of progression options for a character after x amount of hours. That's where one of the main selling points of the game kicks in: Progression of your own node, and stopping enemy node progression. And obviously also guild progression and religion progression and society progression.

Progressing and improving the world around you and helping and improving allied players is another form of personal progression. It's just more indirect, but it can be equally or even more rewarding than just direct personal progression.

Tryol

Took me some time until I realized that you are talking about in-game augments/classes, and a not job positions as Intrepid. "Jobs" is such a bad term for this IMO.

Dreugui

Yea, I think, we'll have a beter view on this question on and after Alpha 2. It was maybe a "premature" question, things like end-game on jobs, may be a later discution, I mean, this game isn't even beta ! xD

I think for now the best we can do is just wait and see.

PS : It's just I came to be interested in AoC really resently so evreything that I discover, is new to me and i'd like to know more. ( so I knew AoC when it launched as apocalypse, but i profoundly HATE battle royale, so I just discarded the game, and then later, when It became a MMO "again", well the fact that it's on monthly subscibe stoped me, because, well i'm not what you could say wealthy so, it's hard to pay for monthly sub, )

tautau

@Dreugui Read the Ashes of Creation Wiki. There is a LOT of information there which I think you will really enjoy knowing about.

Kilion

Basics: There are 3 subcategories to artisanship, each player can master 2 jobs from only 1 subcategory. So you can only master 2 jobs, not 3.

Proficiency level is just one pillar, one component of artisanship. Building a supply network to actually have the resources to do anything with and acquiring the recipies to know what to do with materials are two equally important components as well, which I suspect we will be much stronger pronounced in Ashes than in other games.
There is no value in someones proficiency level if they have no unique recipies to build special gear.
There is no value in someones proficiency level if they cannot acquire any materials to make anything.
Tying ones definition of "growth" or "progress" to just a proficiency number will probably be a very inaccurate measurement of ones value as an artisan in Ashes.

Regarding the point of mastering more jobs:
Ashes of Creation aims at bringing back more social interaction into MMORPGs, so allowing players to gradually detach themselves from others because with enough time they could do everything on their own again is not making much sense.
Did you "earn" it after 5'000 hours? Doesn't matter because what you where suggesting seems to run counter to the basic idea of what this games wants to offer players, additionally it never promised players to be able to infinitely grow or to continuously grow more independent from other players.

So maybe it is worth reconsidering whether your expectation actually line up with what is known so far about Ashes' artisanship system. For further details check out the Wiki and of course do not forget that artisanship is just one system to keep players engaged, they will also have to establish Nodes and Freeholds for artisanship to work out, there is character progression etc.

And to close this off: Adding more content will always take more hours than just playing through that content. So if you are playing at a frequency that exceeds development speed, you will have to accept at some point that you will run out of new things to do.

TheevilShiny

I see you're diving deep into the mechanics of AoC and considering some interesting changes. It's true that after thousands of hours, character growth can plateau.
Your idea of tiered specialization is intriguing. It could add a fresh dynamic to the game. However, game developers often have their own design philosophies, so they might not align with their vision.
In the meantime, if you ever fancy exploring something outside of gaming, I came across a site, https://www.exploremedicalcareers.com/ultrasound-technician/, which might spark your interest in alternative career paths.

Caww

There is no reason to punish a crafter for making a choice and then preventing them from going in a different direction.

darthaden

Funny how you can almost always tell what someone's main mmo has been by what they call gathering and crafting

Dreugui wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

I am not a fan of one character can do everything concept.
I prefer players to have to create alts.

and what's the difference, you juste have to creat alt to have the same result, isnt it just borring ? and a lost of time ?

NiKr wrote: »

This would just lead to 0 high lvl market trading. All the hardcore players who can level all the professions to the max will then be able to do everything themselves and will no longer require the help of other people. And considering that high lvl crafting will still need low level resources, if high lvls can get all those resources themselves (and probably even faster/better) - there's no need to trade with low lvl players who're trying to sell their stuff. At least I know that I'd do exactly that if I could max out every artisan profession.

And this would only get worse the further you go into the future of the game. More and more players will become self-reliant and the game will start becoming less and less social in that regard.

effectively I didn't see it that way, but , you still need to have some benefit to have a long play. or else you'll juste have to creat alts, and in that case, you STILL will be able to do ALL by your-selfe, you juste will have to switch character each time you need to do something else.

Yes but it won't be convenient. Sure you can level up gathering alts but your still limited by what each alt specialty is. You see a high level tree on your mining alt, too bad you can't gather it.

As for crafting you'll be limited to watch your node has stations for. You may be forced to transport those crafted good across the whole map to reach your main if there isn't a station closer.

Add in the time it takes to simply level your alt to max level and I think the majority won't find it worth their time to make alts simply for the purposes of gathering, processing, and crafting. When you can just buy or trade for what your main needs.

Ruerik

I do see the appeal of being able to level all things on one character, saves time of having to change characters.

But I see the better community appeal of NOT going that route. Ashes doesnt look to be shaping into a solo RPG MMO game like others.

Might make sense to ask for some quality of life things for artisan players though.

Its a game with magic, so let me magically craft using materials that are in storage of the node city I am at so I dont have to spend hours playing tetris with my inventory back and forth while crafting.

While standing in a node city (not in the wilderness, in the city), let me one click send crafting material to storage, and not have to run to a bank and play tetris with my inventory there.

Make the login/character select screen very fast.

And otherwise, any of the other non-artisan actions that we have to interact with that take up time that adds up over a day, streamline any of those processes so artisans can do things.

Tyranthraxus

I can't support any game-design system that emphasizes self-capacity over reliance upon trade and player-to-player interaction; AoC sounds to be getting it RIGHT, in encouraging - by design - reliance upon inter-community trade.

Dreugui

I think a lot of you didn't quite get my point.
This post is for like 1% of player, maybe less, maybe more, any way no more that 5%.

The thing is almost ALL the player won't have that problem because they will NEVER have enough play hours to have that issue.

I'm talking here for the 1% of player, that will play A LOT. And I mean A LOT.
The "problem" of MMO, and that's why it became like that now is :
- Nobody play at the same time, nobody plays as much and not everyone will keep playing.

SO the more you play the more you will feel "alone", why ? because all the people you will encounter will likely play less than you, and that mean in a game where you emphasis the communication and helping each other, the more you need people the more you will feel stuck. Example : "you need wood ? buy it to other ! Oh ! wait ! it's 3am NOBODY IS HERE !" And THAT is where this system come in !

You will need to invest so much time to "max" the 3 starting jobs that only the HEAVY HARDCORE player will have access to it. It's NOT to allow everyone to solo play the game ! it's for the ones that play "to much" have a little leniency and have it easier. to not be stuck because nobody is around when you want to play. because the more you play the more solo you will play naturally because if you don't you WILL be stuck.

there are exception, if you're lucky maybe you will find friends that play as much as you do, but it's that AN EXCEPTION. and please do NOT answer me : play less ...

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