Before I get too Excited, PVP\PVE by Choice?

My question is, will pvp\pve be separated? Or will this be a forced pvp game?

From some of the videos I have been watching, it looks like you will have to pvp to maintain your housing. Is this the case or will there also be pve housing that is just where you go for some buildcraft?

Is the game open world pvp too, or can you choose to do some immersive questing or relaxing gathering without being ganked? Sometimes I like the intensity of pvp but I am a much bigger fan of immersive content.

Before the hardcore types get too judgy, I like the idea of a massive world with content to suit a large population so that the MMO-world feels beyond immense. Im not sure why developers have decided to cater to one small aspect of a game when this only leads to creating a game that seems small and finite, in both what a player can do in the game and how long the game can hold players' attention spans.

I have never had long queues for WvW, Arenas, or Battlegrounds so I never understand why developers are willing to lose such a large amount of revenue from players who do not want pvp, or only want to pvp on their terms.

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SirChancelot

Okeydoke wrote: »

TheDarkPaladin wrote: »

Im not sure why developers have decided to cater to one small aspect

Because serving niche, or minority markets can be extremely lucrative. There are usually less barriers to entry compared to dominant or majority markets. The competition is not as stiff, and in some cases is nonexistent.

But there is a problem of going too far and making it too niche. If you only aim at the most hardcore of players or focus on only one aspect of a game you end up with great MMOs that close up shop because they aren't sustainable.
Wildstar and Warhammer age of Reckoning come to mind

Okeydoke

SirChancelot wrote: »

But there is a problem of going too far and making it too niche.

Yeah I agree you have to make a game that can sustain itself through profitability.

I didn't play Wildstar. I played Warhammer though. I didn't think it was half bad. It was going up against WoW in it's prime, as well as competing against a number of different more pvp focused mmos. And it just failed. Couldn't compete against the heavyweight in the majority market, WoW, and didn't appeal enough to the niche markets to make up for that. Poor Mark Jacobs has been floundering ever since. He struggles just to issue refunds for Camelot Unchained lol

Edit: Not trying to pick on the guy. He put out one of the best, possibly the best, pvp mmo to date, Dark Ages of Camelot. Has my eternal gratitude for that. Not a fan of how he's handled Camelot Unchained though.

Scarbeus

While there should be a loss for death when you aren't pvp flagged, and there should be a reward for killing a non flagged player, I don't think it should be very much. If you want to spend some time gathering and pass on the pvp for a few hours it shouldn't be too punishing.

BaSkA_9x2

All of your questions would be answered by doing some research, but since you decided to come to the forums, don't get upset if "hardcore types" get judgy of your carebear ass.

Orobahn wrote: »

My question is, will pvp\pve be separated? Or will this be a forced pvp game?

From some of the videos I have been watching, it looks like you will have to pvp to maintain your housing. Is this the case or will there also be pve housing that is just where you go for some buildcraft?

This is a PvPvE game. PKing is allowed everywhere and at all times. The only safezones are inside your housing/freeholds, which will be destroyed if your Node (city) gets destroyed.

Orobahn wrote: »

Is the game open world pvp too, or can you choose to do some immersive questing or relaxing gathering without being ganked? Sometimes I like the intensity of pvp but I am a much bigger fan of immersive content

What do you define as "being ganked"? I have a feeling most carebears classify all PKing as ganking. That is false. If you're a level 40 killings mobs, farming or AFK and another level 40 comes up and starts attacking you, that's PvP (or open world PvP). Ganking, for me, is easily killing someone, so ganking is when a bunch of people gang up on you or when a higher level starts attacking you or, arguably, if you're low HP from fighting mobs and someone deals a finishing blow.

Regardless of what you define as ganking, nowhere is safe, so if you wanna relax while playing, simply don't fight back and change your mentality about what dying means, so you can relax while being murdered. Also, if you don't fight back, whoever killed you becomes red which is not a good thing, so hopefully people won't be able to cheat the system into avoiding becoming red and will be punished by doing so, a.k.a not worth it most of the time.

However, you should understand two things: people won't risk going red for no reason and many aspects of this game have party gameplay in mind, not solo. So, if you're farming solo 2km away from civilization, you're asking to get slammed. Playing with other people mitigates that, although I'd bet I can 1v3 carebears.

Orobahn wrote: »

Before the hardcore types get too judgy, I like the idea of a massive world with content to suit a large population so that the MMO-world feels beyond immense.

Are you trying to say that all PvP players are hardcore? What does hardcore mean?

A hardcore player is someone who is able to play many hours a week. I'm only able to play 12 to 15 hours a week so I'm pretty sure that makes me a casual player. I'm bored of PvE games where there's no risk and only reward, so I consider myself a PvP player. Am I allowed to be a casual PvP player?

So, before the hardcore PvE types get too judgy, I don't expect to change your games into my liking so please don't change mine.

Orobahn wrote: »

I'm not sure why developers have decided to cater to one small aspect of a game when this only leads to creating a game that seems small and finite, in both what a player can do in the game and how long the game can hold players' attention spans.

If you think (open world) PvP is a small aspect of the game you clearly know nothing about the OG MMORPGs, which paved the way for the genre. How does open world PvP make a game "smaller and more finite" than current single player lobby group finder MMOs? How are you able to do less things in the game if you can, literally, do anything you want?

It almost feels like you're projecting. You feel bad for not being safe in the world, not everyone. You have trouble holding your attention span because of open world PvP, not everyone.

Orobahn wrote: »

I have never had long queues for WvW, Arenas, or Battlegrounds so I never understand why developers are willing to lose such a large amount of revenue from players who do not want pvp, or only want to pvp on their terms.

That's amazing to hear, that means you already have plenty of PvE MMORPGs, so no need to turn Ashes into one.

And that's quite funny, look how easy it is to make a stupid argument:

There are so many successful PvP games out there, so I never understand why developers are willing to lose such a large amount of revenue from players who do not want to PvE, or only want to PvE on their terms.

Cool, huh?

I didn't know so many carebears watched @LazyPeon's videos.

Dygz

LMAO
How do you define PKing? All PKing is griefing.
Being killed during PvP is not necessarily PKing or griefing.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

LMAO
How do you define PKing? All PKing is griefing.
Being killed during PvP is not necessarily PKing or griefing.

I wouldnt consider a PK griefing. Griefing is more along the lines of camping. Just happening upon someone and deciding to kill them is more of just a gank. Do that 3+ more times within a short time period, then you're harassing, which would be griefing.

Dygz

In Ashes, just happening upon someone and deciding to kill them is not PKing if they fight back. Especially, if they kill you, rather than you killing them.
Deciding to kill someone you stumble upon isn't necessarily ganking either.

Kovrm

This dude hasn't replied since his initial post and response. I think he saw himself out.

Okeydoke

Well damn. That's like abnormally normal. Dude found out a game wasn't exactly his cup of tea and left instead of lecturing everyone. Major props. He lives on through his thread.

Veeshan

Vaccine wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Nope. Just don't fight back and give your PKers Corruption.
Has nothing to do with how many other people are involved in PvP combat - with you or against you.
It's about not wanting to participate in PvP at all when PvP is the last thing you want to be doing in the game at that time.

And, yeah, in Ashes, even when you are adventuring or harvesting completely solo, you are still contributing to changing the world and the community of Verra.

I'm still reading about the PvP rules myself. How does it work if you DO fight back, do they not go up in corruption? I would assume the ACT of attacking someone gains you corruption, not per se if they fight back or not.

attacking back means attackers dont get corruption but you drop half the item you would have if you didnt fight back

JustVine

Okeydoke wrote: »

Well damn. That's like abnormally normal. Dude found out a game wasn't exactly his cup of tea and left instead of lecturing everyone. Major props. He lives on through his thread.

I mean they literally said 'thanks that definitely answer my question' on post four. Everything after that was people who don't bother reading beyond post one, Azherae trying to help people understand other people's points of view, or circle jerk. And lord help us we can't stop THOSE forces of nature.

Okeydoke

JustVine wrote: »

or circle jerk. And lord help us we can't stop THOSE forces of nature.

lol. I plead the fifth

Dolyem

JustVine wrote: »

Okeydoke wrote: »

Well damn. That's like abnormally normal. Dude found out a game wasn't exactly his cup of tea and left instead of lecturing everyone. Major props. He lives on through his thread.

I mean they literally said 'thanks that definitely answer my question' on post four. Everything after that was people who don't bother reading beyond post one, Azherae trying to help people understand other people's points of view, or circle jerk. And lord help us we can't stop THOSE forces of nature.

Got to drive the point home about the mechanics of the game!

Scarbeus

Here's a suggestion: a mayor will have the option of hiring NPC town guards or putting out bounties for players to kill corrupted and keep citizens safe. This will become available once a settlement reaches a certain size.

For example a small town will get town guards, they will be able to try to protect non combatants and attack corrupted inside and at a limited distance outside the settlement. This is by no means guaranteed protection as a large enough group of players could still defeat guards or one who is fast enough could escape from them. Compare this to a metropolis settlement where the guards would patrol the entire node area and be more difficult to defeat and harder to escape from. Thoughts?

Dygz

Pretty sure Mayors already have the ability to increase guards in town.
Bounties will be reserved as a player system, rather than an NPC system.

MMORPGs should not need NPCs to patrol entire zones.

Dolyem

Scarbeus wrote: »

Here's a suggestion: a mayor will have the option of hiring NPC town guards or putting out bounties for players to kill corrupted and keep citizens safe. This will become available once a settlement reaches a certain size.

For example a small town will get town guards, they will be able to try to protect non combatants and attack corrupted inside and at a limited distance outside the settlement. This is by no means guaranteed protection as a large enough group of players could still defeat guards or one who is fast enough could escape from them. Compare this to a metropolis settlement where the guards would patrol the entire node area and be more difficult to defeat and harder to escape from. Thoughts?

I enjoy the idea of making guards in a node optional. Leaves potential for a lawless town with other ideas for options like a black market or other criminal features. Harder to develop, but has its own perks, would be a cool concept.

Warth

Guards never mattered in any mmo. NPC locations and patterns are too predictable. Within a couple of days players will have figured out how to circumvent them.

Their only use csn be placement near a service like banking or the AH as to prevent corrupted players from using said services

Ludullu

Warth wrote: »

Guards never mattered in any mmo. NPC locations and patterns are too predictable. Within a couple of days players will have figured out how to circumvent them.

That depends on how many of them there are and how hard they hit. Obviously at top lvls it's gonna be way easier (though still not necessarily), but before that they could definitely be strong enough to 3-4-shot any corrupted player and defend the town this way.

You could even have ranging strength of them, depending on the node lvl and the amount of money the Mayor invested in them. This way the lower lvl nodes could be more dangerous for normal players, while way safer for PKers, with higher lvl nodes being the opposite.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

Guards never mattered in any mmo. NPC locations and patterns are too predictable. Within a couple of days players will have figured out how to circumvent them.

That depends on how many of them there are and how hard they hit. Obviously at top lvls it's gonna be way easier (though still not necessarily), but before that they could definitely be strong enough to 3-4-shot any corrupted player and defend the town this way.

You could even have ranging strength of them, depending on the node lvl and the amount of money the Mayor invested in them. This way the lower lvl nodes could be more dangerous for normal players, while way safer for PKers, with higher lvl nodes being the opposite.

Works best if they are Ranger builds with snares that have basically no way to be resisted and strongish DoT.

Guards just killing off players is less fun for both sides, I think, but 'guards giving players the option to finish them off'?

Fun and Fireworks for the whole Node.

Dolyem

Azherae wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

Guards never mattered in any mmo. NPC locations and patterns are too predictable. Within a couple of days players will have figured out how to circumvent them.

That depends on how many of them there are and how hard they hit. Obviously at top lvls it's gonna be way easier (though still not necessarily), but before that they could definitely be strong enough to 3-4-shot any corrupted player and defend the town this way.

You could even have ranging strength of them, depending on the node lvl and the amount of money the Mayor invested in them. This way the lower lvl nodes could be more dangerous for normal players, while way safer for PKers, with higher lvl nodes being the opposite.

Works best if they are Ranger builds with snares that have basically no way to be resisted and strongish DoT.

Guards just killing off players is less fun for both sides, I think, but 'guards giving players the option to finish them off'?

Fun and Fireworks for the whole Node.

ah the memories of gadgetzan and booty bay in vanilla WoW. The bruisers with their nets and guns were a great design. Later they even added knockback on the guns for people who hid on rooftops

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