Volgaris wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » mcstackerson You side stepped the question. Your argument is that you want to shut them off because you say they "taint the beautiful world." I'm saying they are part of the world. -This is a difference of opinion. I think anything bought in a cash shop taints the game. I just don't like it, but I understand the value it brings to the game, value as in revenue for the devs. What mcstackerson is trying to point out is that these cosmetics will be in the game for NPCs. NPCs will wear the cosmetics. You are going to see them in-game regardless of whether or not people buy them. They are already part of the world because NPCs will wear them, and therefore they won't stand out and look out of place, because they are already in-place. I guess it's the way I think about cosmetics. They cover your gear, it's a skin to make an item the way you want it to look. NPCs don't do that. The cosmetic is just their gear. So it's not really players making use of NPC assets, it players using NPC skins to cover their gear that I have an issue with. Looting an NPC and taking it's helm and using it and looking like the NPC is fine. But buying a skin in the cash shop to look like you got that helm off an NPC is what bothers me. It skips aesthetic progression with a cc swipe. The bonus to the game is more assets, but at the cost of aesthetic progression. So why not let people pay to have aesthetic progression? It seems everyone against it wants EVERY player to see their purchased skins, which is odd to me. During my time playing POE I bought a few skins to support the game (before being sold off), the different portal skins, some spells, cool looking foot prints. It was neat and a good way to support the devs, since it was a 100 percent free game. I would never care if people seen them, I just don't get why other people require other players to see their cosmetics or costumes for them to have value to them. A lot of good points have made but I just don't value the same things as people that purchase cosmetics.
daveywavey wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » mcstackerson You side stepped the question. Your argument is that you want to shut them off because you say they "taint the beautiful world." I'm saying they are part of the world. -This is a difference of opinion. I think anything bought in a cash shop taints the game. I just don't like it, but I understand the value it brings to the game, value as in revenue for the devs. What mcstackerson is trying to point out is that these cosmetics will be in the game for NPCs. NPCs will wear the cosmetics. You are going to see them in-game regardless of whether or not people buy them. They are already part of the world because NPCs will wear them, and therefore they won't stand out and look out of place, because they are already in-place.
Volgaris wrote: » mcstackerson You side stepped the question. Your argument is that you want to shut them off because you say they "taint the beautiful world." I'm saying they are part of the world. -This is a difference of opinion. I think anything bought in a cash shop taints the game. I just don't like it, but I understand the value it brings to the game, value as in revenue for the devs.
Volgaris wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Baltan wrote: » I think this was mentioned a couple times (sorry I skimmed) Didn't devs say what's in those packs are *actually* what's in game? So how would it be immersion breaking? Presumably those mounts are mobs and NPCs also have the various armors? Wanting to "turn that off" is pretty much saying "hey I want a single player Skyrim experience" to each their own but this is an MMO not a single player game. There are actual people behind those characters and devs who put crazy time into all of it, I think that everybody involved deserves some basic respect/being seen properly and not just being tuned out. Sidenote: omfg I want that bear mount😭🥰 i understand the skins are in the game. i don't really care if the skins are the in the game or shop. i don't like skins that cover your gear. that is what i want to turn off. you want to buy them and want me to see them. i think they're skins in general are immersion breaking because they skip the aesthetic progression. buy all the skins you want. i don't care, i just don't want to see them and I'm willing to pay for it. i don't see how that's want to play a single player game, not sure how you got there. point is i just don't care about your dressed up character. In node wars and large scale PvP events, cosmetics are going to be disabled for performance and clarity reasons. If you’re considering small group, open world PvP, you can still assess gear based on visuals even if a player is using cosmetics because you can’t skin a staff into a battleaxe. But hidden information is a key part of the Open World PvP experience. It’s by design that you can’t assess everything about a player’s power via the HUD or visuals. It can’t be a shortcut when the cosmetic in question only has one path. I love that they're turning it off for large scale pvp. that is awesome! and limiting what skins can be put on items is great too. hiding things from your enemies makes sense, just don't like the cc swipe for it. It doesn’t require a cc swipe, it’s just an option. Same as there will be options for crafters and options for hardcore raiders to earn cosmetics in different ways. Cosmetics earned via gameplay will have quality matching or exceeding cashshop cosmetics. You’re never going to see a multiplayer game without a cash shop because there is nothing with even remotely comparable profit margins, but Ashes is doing it in the healthiest way possible, with cosmetics only and not with unreasonably more resources sunk into the cash shop over gameplay rewards. Anything that lets someone totally hide cosmetics in the open world isn’t gonna happen because every type of player finds use or prestige in cosmetics. Killers find use in being able to obscure some information. Socializers like to look good. Achievers want to display their successes. Explorers want to show off things they have found or earned through their explorations. None of them want someone else to be able to alter how their character looks, a character that they’ve decorated a certain way for a reason. Killers want to obscure some info. -- yes but not all rely on cc swipes, but the bad ones will Socializers like to look good. -- yes but not all rely on cc swipes, but the bad ones will Explorers want to show of things they've found. -- found with in the cash shop?? we all found it lol
Caeryl wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Baltan wrote: » I think this was mentioned a couple times (sorry I skimmed) Didn't devs say what's in those packs are *actually* what's in game? So how would it be immersion breaking? Presumably those mounts are mobs and NPCs also have the various armors? Wanting to "turn that off" is pretty much saying "hey I want a single player Skyrim experience" to each their own but this is an MMO not a single player game. There are actual people behind those characters and devs who put crazy time into all of it, I think that everybody involved deserves some basic respect/being seen properly and not just being tuned out. Sidenote: omfg I want that bear mount😭🥰 i understand the skins are in the game. i don't really care if the skins are the in the game or shop. i don't like skins that cover your gear. that is what i want to turn off. you want to buy them and want me to see them. i think they're skins in general are immersion breaking because they skip the aesthetic progression. buy all the skins you want. i don't care, i just don't want to see them and I'm willing to pay for it. i don't see how that's want to play a single player game, not sure how you got there. point is i just don't care about your dressed up character. In node wars and large scale PvP events, cosmetics are going to be disabled for performance and clarity reasons. If you’re considering small group, open world PvP, you can still assess gear based on visuals even if a player is using cosmetics because you can’t skin a staff into a battleaxe. But hidden information is a key part of the Open World PvP experience. It’s by design that you can’t assess everything about a player’s power via the HUD or visuals. It can’t be a shortcut when the cosmetic in question only has one path. I love that they're turning it off for large scale pvp. that is awesome! and limiting what skins can be put on items is great too. hiding things from your enemies makes sense, just don't like the cc swipe for it. It doesn’t require a cc swipe, it’s just an option. Same as there will be options for crafters and options for hardcore raiders to earn cosmetics in different ways. Cosmetics earned via gameplay will have quality matching or exceeding cashshop cosmetics. You’re never going to see a multiplayer game without a cash shop because there is nothing with even remotely comparable profit margins, but Ashes is doing it in the healthiest way possible, with cosmetics only and not with unreasonably more resources sunk into the cash shop over gameplay rewards. Anything that lets someone totally hide cosmetics in the open world isn’t gonna happen because every type of player finds use or prestige in cosmetics. Killers find use in being able to obscure some information. Socializers like to look good. Achievers want to display their successes. Explorers want to show off things they have found or earned through their explorations. None of them want someone else to be able to alter how their character looks, a character that they’ve decorated a certain way for a reason.
Volgaris wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Baltan wrote: » I think this was mentioned a couple times (sorry I skimmed) Didn't devs say what's in those packs are *actually* what's in game? So how would it be immersion breaking? Presumably those mounts are mobs and NPCs also have the various armors? Wanting to "turn that off" is pretty much saying "hey I want a single player Skyrim experience" to each their own but this is an MMO not a single player game. There are actual people behind those characters and devs who put crazy time into all of it, I think that everybody involved deserves some basic respect/being seen properly and not just being tuned out. Sidenote: omfg I want that bear mount😭🥰 i understand the skins are in the game. i don't really care if the skins are the in the game or shop. i don't like skins that cover your gear. that is what i want to turn off. you want to buy them and want me to see them. i think they're skins in general are immersion breaking because they skip the aesthetic progression. buy all the skins you want. i don't care, i just don't want to see them and I'm willing to pay for it. i don't see how that's want to play a single player game, not sure how you got there. point is i just don't care about your dressed up character. In node wars and large scale PvP events, cosmetics are going to be disabled for performance and clarity reasons. If you’re considering small group, open world PvP, you can still assess gear based on visuals even if a player is using cosmetics because you can’t skin a staff into a battleaxe. But hidden information is a key part of the Open World PvP experience. It’s by design that you can’t assess everything about a player’s power via the HUD or visuals. It can’t be a shortcut when the cosmetic in question only has one path. I love that they're turning it off for large scale pvp. that is awesome! and limiting what skins can be put on items is great too. hiding things from your enemies makes sense, just don't like the cc swipe for it.
Caeryl wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Baltan wrote: » I think this was mentioned a couple times (sorry I skimmed) Didn't devs say what's in those packs are *actually* what's in game? So how would it be immersion breaking? Presumably those mounts are mobs and NPCs also have the various armors? Wanting to "turn that off" is pretty much saying "hey I want a single player Skyrim experience" to each their own but this is an MMO not a single player game. There are actual people behind those characters and devs who put crazy time into all of it, I think that everybody involved deserves some basic respect/being seen properly and not just being tuned out. Sidenote: omfg I want that bear mount😭🥰 i understand the skins are in the game. i don't really care if the skins are the in the game or shop. i don't like skins that cover your gear. that is what i want to turn off. you want to buy them and want me to see them. i think they're skins in general are immersion breaking because they skip the aesthetic progression. buy all the skins you want. i don't care, i just don't want to see them and I'm willing to pay for it. i don't see how that's want to play a single player game, not sure how you got there. point is i just don't care about your dressed up character. In node wars and large scale PvP events, cosmetics are going to be disabled for performance and clarity reasons. If you’re considering small group, open world PvP, you can still assess gear based on visuals even if a player is using cosmetics because you can’t skin a staff into a battleaxe. But hidden information is a key part of the Open World PvP experience. It’s by design that you can’t assess everything about a player’s power via the HUD or visuals. It can’t be a shortcut when the cosmetic in question only has one path.
Volgaris wrote: » Baltan wrote: » I think this was mentioned a couple times (sorry I skimmed) Didn't devs say what's in those packs are *actually* what's in game? So how would it be immersion breaking? Presumably those mounts are mobs and NPCs also have the various armors? Wanting to "turn that off" is pretty much saying "hey I want a single player Skyrim experience" to each their own but this is an MMO not a single player game. There are actual people behind those characters and devs who put crazy time into all of it, I think that everybody involved deserves some basic respect/being seen properly and not just being tuned out. Sidenote: omfg I want that bear mount😭🥰 i understand the skins are in the game. i don't really care if the skins are the in the game or shop. i don't like skins that cover your gear. that is what i want to turn off. you want to buy them and want me to see them. i think they're skins in general are immersion breaking because they skip the aesthetic progression. buy all the skins you want. i don't care, i just don't want to see them and I'm willing to pay for it. i don't see how that's want to play a single player game, not sure how you got there. point is i just don't care about your dressed up character.
Baltan wrote: » I think this was mentioned a couple times (sorry I skimmed) Didn't devs say what's in those packs are *actually* what's in game? So how would it be immersion breaking? Presumably those mounts are mobs and NPCs also have the various armors? Wanting to "turn that off" is pretty much saying "hey I want a single player Skyrim experience" to each their own but this is an MMO not a single player game. There are actual people behind those characters and devs who put crazy time into all of it, I think that everybody involved deserves some basic respect/being seen properly and not just being tuned out. Sidenote: omfg I want that bear mount😭🥰
mcstackerson wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » mcstackerson You side stepped the question. Your argument is that you want to shut them off because you say they "taint the beautiful world." I'm saying they are part of the world. -This is a difference of opinion. I think anything bought in a cash shop taints the game. I just don't like it, but I understand the value it brings to the game, value as in revenue for the devs. What mcstackerson is trying to point out is that these cosmetics will be in the game for NPCs. NPCs will wear the cosmetics. You are going to see them in-game regardless of whether or not people buy them. They are already part of the world because NPCs will wear them, and therefore they won't stand out and look out of place, because they are already in-place. I guess it's the way I think about cosmetics. They cover your gear, it's a skin to make an item the way you want it to look. NPCs don't do that. The cosmetic is just their gear. So it's not really players making use of NPC assets, it players using NPC skins to cover their gear that I have an issue with. Looting an NPC and taking it's helm and using it and looking like the NPC is fine. But buying a skin in the cash shop to look like you got that helm off an NPC is what bothers me. It skips aesthetic progression with a cc swipe. The bonus to the game is more assets, but at the cost of aesthetic progression. So why not let people pay to have aesthetic progression? It seems everyone against it wants EVERY player to see their purchased skins, which is odd to me. During my time playing POE I bought a few skins to support the game (before being sold off), the different portal skins, some spells, cool looking foot prints. It was neat and a good way to support the devs, since it was a 100 percent free game. I would never care if people seen them, I just don't get why other people require other players to see their cosmetics or costumes for them to have value to them. A lot of good points have made but I just don't value the same things as people that purchase cosmetics. I can get that viewpoint but to me, a skin is the same as be going to a blacksmith/tailor and getting them to change my armor style. The system is just served up in a more convenient interface. I feel like the same can be said for you and why you care about turning off everyone appearances.
Caeryl wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Baltan wrote: » I think this was mentioned a couple times (sorry I skimmed) Didn't devs say what's in those packs are *actually* what's in game? So how would it be immersion breaking? Presumably those mounts are mobs and NPCs also have the various armors? Wanting to "turn that off" is pretty much saying "hey I want a single player Skyrim experience" to each their own but this is an MMO not a single player game. There are actual people behind those characters and devs who put crazy time into all of it, I think that everybody involved deserves some basic respect/being seen properly and not just being tuned out. Sidenote: omfg I want that bear mount😭🥰 i understand the skins are in the game. i don't really care if the skins are the in the game or shop. i don't like skins that cover your gear. that is what i want to turn off. you want to buy them and want me to see them. i think they're skins in general are immersion breaking because they skip the aesthetic progression. buy all the skins you want. i don't care, i just don't want to see them and I'm willing to pay for it. i don't see how that's want to play a single player game, not sure how you got there. point is i just don't care about your dressed up character. In node wars and large scale PvP events, cosmetics are going to be disabled for performance and clarity reasons. If you’re considering small group, open world PvP, you can still assess gear based on visuals even if a player is using cosmetics because you can’t skin a staff into a battleaxe. But hidden information is a key part of the Open World PvP experience. It’s by design that you can’t assess everything about a player’s power via the HUD or visuals. It can’t be a shortcut when the cosmetic in question only has one path. I love that they're turning it off for large scale pvp. that is awesome! and limiting what skins can be put on items is great too. hiding things from your enemies makes sense, just don't like the cc swipe for it. It doesn’t require a cc swipe, it’s just an option. Same as there will be options for crafters and options for hardcore raiders to earn cosmetics in different ways. Cosmetics earned via gameplay will have quality matching or exceeding cashshop cosmetics. You’re never going to see a multiplayer game without a cash shop because there is nothing with even remotely comparable profit margins, but Ashes is doing it in the healthiest way possible, with cosmetics only and not with unreasonably more resources sunk into the cash shop over gameplay rewards. Anything that lets someone totally hide cosmetics in the open world isn’t gonna happen because every type of player finds use or prestige in cosmetics. Killers find use in being able to obscure some information. Socializers like to look good. Achievers want to display their successes. Explorers want to show off things they have found or earned through their explorations. None of them want someone else to be able to alter how their character looks, a character that they’ve decorated a certain way for a reason. Killers want to obscure some info. -- yes but not all rely on cc swipes, but the bad ones will Socializers like to look good. -- yes but not all rely on cc swipes, but the bad ones will Explorers want to show of things they've found. -- found with in the cash shop?? we all found it lol I’d recommend either rereading my post or clarifying how in the world you got from “earned through gameplay” and concluded I was talking about cash shop cosmetics. You said you want to hide all cosmetics and costumes. That includes the cosmetics and costumes earned exclusively through gameplay. There is no functional difference between the Elite Blacksmith Golden Hammer cosmetic someone earned through being a master crafter, and the Jeweled Dwarven Gloves someone purchased in the cash shop. Your arguments are really just starting to sound like tantrums (“They bought this thing so they’re bad and suck at the game”) and you’re expecting people to just.. think that’s any sort of argument. People aren’t purchasing the drops of a raid boss. They’re not minimizing your skill at the game because there is no ”cc swiping” cosmetics earned by completing raids. There’s no “cc swiping” cosmetics earned by dedicated time invested into crafting or other aspects. The players control how their character looks. If that control is taken from one player and given to a different one because they don’t want you to be able to show your character how you want them to be seen, are you really saying you don’t understand how that’s going to negatively impact player motivations to do content that results in cosmetic rewards? Humans like to show off. That’s how we are. That’s why you made this thread! You heavily implied that you think you won’t be able to show off enough when other people might look just as good by spending real money instead of game time.
Iridianny wrote: » I like this idea. I too, don't like cosmetic shop for a couple reasons I've made a few posts about, but mainly just for the immersion breaking effect. The same people who are arguing against this idea you've presented are the same people who argued against my distaste for cash shop as just a desire for others to see me "look the coolest." Originally I was confused where they got that idea, but now I see it was just projection. Of course they don't want this option because they want everyone to have to see their cosmetics they've been buying for years. Even though they argued to me that an individual's cosmetics have no affect on other players' experiences, they think this would be a bad idea... Even though they argued the need for more profits for Intrepid, they think selling this would be a bad idea... Even though they argued to me cosmetics are not part of the game experience, they think this would be a bad idea because npcs cosmetics are actually part of the game experience... My impression is simply that the company wont do it because those who buy cosmetics from the shop are their free walking advertisements and it would be essentially buying an ad blocker.
Volgaris wrote: » I would feel okay with a player or npc crafter being able to change appearances of gear (within reason)
Iridianny wrote: » I like this idea.
CROW3 wrote: » Iridianny wrote: » I like this idea. Given your perspective on ‘winning’ visual progression, is being able to turn off someone’s costume a form of visual pvp? If you turn off a green’s costume do you gain wardrobe corruption? 🤗
Iridianny wrote: » This is so irrelevant to what I said I don’t really know how to respond. I’ll start by asking you not misrepresent my thoughts. Visual progression is personal goal achievement type winning, not everything in an mmo has to be “pvp winning.”
Iridianny wrote: » @Mag7spy I was actually talking about a different discussion thread I made, not that one. But good job cropping nearly 20 pages of comments and thoughts into two small posts that are unrelated to what I said in this discussion.
Mag7spy wrote: »
Iridianny wrote: » Me too. I was laughing when I wrote that post after non stop comments of just toxic and nasty language from people, especially like you, because you didn’t like someone else’s opinion. A common theme for you in life probably… Some people were “literally pissed off” on that discussion forum lol. And now a some of you are still upset about it enough to post screenshots of it weeks later, which makes it even more funny. You still remember it because it’s rang true. Harsh truth sure and those tend to stick.
