Weapon Master / Fighter feedback

With the basic weapon attacks released, and it looked absolutely spot on by the way!! I am a big fan of the fighter class in mmo's and dnd. When I heard that the weapon master class was used in the weapon attack demo I was thrilled. I am still thrilled like everybody here. This is my input as a fighter at heart on what I saw from the couple class abilities. These are just my opinions and feedback and may not represent how others feel.

The dash looks great, it's good for a fighter to have good footwork and maneuverability.
The magical looking hammer attack was okay, but I really like my fighters to steer clear of any magical looking type attacks, especially my weapon master, fighter fighter class. When you think fighter, particularly weapon master, usually you think of someone with great martial prowess and physical training, not magical skills aiding him unless it was from a team buff. I think you can achieve the same attack effect without the magical looking hammer. Perhaps a leap that crashes down and ripples the ground exploding at the same point. Or perhaps using your weapon or fist to punch or hit the ground twice as it ruptures at the point of impact previously shown. I know it could be a lot to animate for each weapon, so perhaps do it by weapon class, light medium heavy, or another idea.

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Dolyem

@Dygz lets be real. We are simply stating that we want it to change. We don't have much control over it other than voicing an opinion of how a typical fighter should be. You are perfectly in your own right if you think it should be otherwise, and we are aware of how it is currently being portrayed from what we know in the game, but this thread is simply showing how many would like it to be high magic, low magic, or no magic.

Dygz

Not a lot of people in this thread.
We are having a discussion. When you’re ready to stop engaging with me in the discussion, you can just stop engaging with me in the discussion.

I have questions. You don’t have to answer them.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Not a lot of people in this thread.
We are having a discussion. When you’re ready to stop engaging with me in the discussion, you can just stop engaging with me in the discussion.

I have questions. You don’t have to answer them.

I wasn't seeing questions from you in this thread, but I was including you in the last statement. State what you picture as a fighter. Not what ashes is currently presenting, but what you think of when you want to play a fighter class.

George_Black

"What do you like in the fighter class in AoC?"

"Ashes has conjurers. If they conjure a hammer they are a fighter.
If they conjure a javelin they are a cleric.
If they conjure a whip they are a tank.
Abiloties in AoC use MP.
All classes are magical."

~Dygz

CROW3

I’m not a big fan of playing magical classes, so I tend to think of a weapon master to focus on physical attacks (with a number of possible styles). If Steven’s version involves some magic here and there, I’m not going to throw a fit, it’s his vision. I mean Zaknafien Do’Urden was a weapon master and had access to a few cantrips to aid in combat.

George_Black

CROW3 wrote: »

I’m not a big fan of playing magical classes, so I tend to think of a weapon master to focus on physical attacks (with a number of possible styles). If Steven’s version involves some magic here and there, I’m not going to throw a fit, it’s his vision. I mean Zaknafien Do’Urden was a weapon master and had access to a few cantrips to aid in combat.

Magical functional abilities is one thing for a fighter. Attacking abilities being magical is wrong.

Anyway when the time for feedback comes I hope there will be structured, official threads in which players get to post once, edit if they need to add something they forgot, and present their sentiment for the devs to use. I also hope that in those threads the posters will have to state their main archetype in previous mmos or of they play many classes.

That way there can be some clarity between what the mains want from their classes, what people hope to see on a different class (what they hope to see in the fighter on the official fighter thread) when creating an alt, and how they want it to feel different from their other alts.

Not the nonsense I read on this topic from some people.

JustVine

Dolyem wrote: »

Having every class as high magic also takes away from classes meant to be high magic. Just saying.

Only if done poorly. But this was just the first draft. I'm sure it'll look better in subsequent drafts like Steven said.

There's definitely ways to achieve this and make it feel both more physical while still retaining Steven's vision of everyone using magic in everything they do. If it looked more like a ghost of a hammer and it actually like broke the ground and stuff as it happened instead of something shiny I bet you a lot more people would have a different reaction to it.

Dolyem

JustVine wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Having every class as high magic also takes away from classes meant to be high magic. Just saying.

Only if done poorly. But this was just the first draft. I'm sure it'll look better in subsequent drafts like Steven said.

There's definitely ways to achieve this and make it feel both more physical while still retaining Steven's vision of everyone using magic in everything they do. If it looked more like a ghost of a hammer and it actually like broke the ground and stuff as it happened instead of something shiny I bet you a lot more people would have a different reaction to it.

Sure, but it can be just as effective to make it seem like the fighter is slamming the ground with their strength to create the same thing and remain more physical. You can just say your body is being charged with magic to give that impact.

Dolyem

CROW3 wrote: »

I’m not a big fan of playing magical classes, so I tend to think of a weapon master to focus on physical attacks (with a number of possible styles). If Steven’s version involves some magic here and there, I’m not going to throw a fit, it’s his vision. I mean Zaknafien Do’Urden was a weapon master and had access to a few cantrips to aid in combat.

To be fair, those cantrips were racial traits were they not? Also great name drop. RIP

CROW3

Dolyem wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

I’m not a big fan of playing magical classes, so I tend to think of a weapon master to focus on physical attacks (with a number of possible styles). If Steven’s version involves some magic here and there, I’m not going to throw a fit, it’s his vision. I mean Zaknafien Do’Urden was a weapon master and had access to a few cantrips to aid in combat.

To be fair, those cantrips were racial traits were they not? Also great name drop. RIP

They were.

JustVine

Dolyem wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Having every class as high magic also takes away from classes meant to be high magic. Just saying.

Only if done poorly. But this was just the first draft. I'm sure it'll look better in subsequent drafts like Steven said.

There's definitely ways to achieve this and make it feel both more physical while still retaining Steven's vision of everyone using magic in everything they do. If it looked more like a ghost of a hammer and it actually like broke the ground and stuff as it happened instead of something shiny I bet you a lot more people would have a different reaction to it.

Sure, but it can be just as effective to make it seem like the fighter is slamming the ground with their strength to create the same thing and remain more physical. You can just say your body is being charged with magic to give that impact.

Maybe but 'stomping on the ground' versus 'magic hammer' have very different logical hit boxes. One requires zero disjointed hit boxes while the other can have them. Throwing the weapon itself could do a similar thing with similar hit boxes, but they also wanted you to be able to keep doing a basic attack combo while doing the ability. If your suggesting they punch the earth to raise a pillar of rocks underneath a set area and distance, not only is this in line with the hit boxes they showed but is something I'd be 110% on board for.

There's a lot of intention behind the design choices that are definitely intertwined with the intended combat balance. I'm sure they'll come up with something that will make plenty of people happy. I'm looking forward to it.

CROW3

Honestly, for a weapon master I would much rather see mastery of weapons than geology. Circular movement, sweeps, redoublements, reversals, counter-attacks, etc.

JustVine

CROW3 wrote: »

Honestly, for a weapon master I would much rather see mastery of weapons than geology. Circular movement, sweeps, redoublements, reversals, counter-attacks, etc.

Well I won't pretend to know why Intrepid wants this version of a disjointed hit box or if the ability they showed is intended to just be an unaugmented fighter ability.

CROW3

JustVine wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Honestly, for a weapon master I would much rather see mastery of weapons than geology. Circular movement, sweeps, redoublements, reversals, counter-attacks, etc.

Well I won't pretend to know why Intrepid wants this version of a disjointed hit box or if the ability they showed is intended to just be an unaugmented fighter ability.

Right there with you, sister.

Dygz

Dolyem wrote: »

I wasn't seeing questions from you in this thread, but I was including you in the last statement. State what you picture as a fighter. Not what ashes is currently presenting, but what you think of when you want to play a fighter class.

When I think of a Fighter, I think of a sword Duelist, a Swashbuckler, perhaps a Knight or Samurai.
Any of whom might also be able to conjure a magical weapon. None of whom would be precluded from conjuring a magical weapon.
Especially not in a high magic setting.

Songcaller

When I think of a Fighter I imagine an F-16 Tomcat.

CROW3

Neurath wrote: »

When I think of a Fighter I imagine an F-16 Tomcat.

You either mean an F-14 Tomcat or an F-16 Falcon. Way too much time at USAF/USN bases as a kid to let that one fly by.

Songcaller

I called it tomcat because my name is tom and I'm a leo. Though I also like falcons hence why I love the F-16. As I was in a weird mood I mixed the two due to the fantasy elements

Solmyr

If we're strictly talking aesthetics here, fighters are the basic everyman class that represents the norm from which others deviate. This has been true in pretty much all their iterations. This means that, visually speaking, the fighter is often the least fantastical.

That of course doesn't mean they can't use enchanted weapons, and in a very high fantasy setting like AoC, I'd expect them to use magic. But they should use magic in a way that reflects their class identity - whatever that ends up being.

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