George_Black wrote: » One guy with opposite views to the design philosophy wont make a difference.
XiraelAcaron wrote: » Xuri wrote: » I think its a great addition even for a pacifist style of player I've grown into. Will I partake in forced PvP? No, prolly not. But if I have goods that need to be transported across the sea you bet your tail I'll be hiring Mercs to help transport it for me. Warth wrote: » ... PvE and PvP is intertwined. You cant just do PvE without the threat of being interrupted by PvP. You wont do much PvP if there wasnt any (PVE) reason for people to travel into the open ocean in the first place. That you have to contend with PvP when you do PvE is not and was never the issue (at least for me). That was always part of the design of AoC. Moving goods across the open sea for example was always going to be a risk, since caravans and I assume merchant ships as well were always open for PvP (like caravans on land). The problem is the other stuff that is now possible as well (i.e. griefing in its variaous form) because the griefers have no longer anything thats holding them back.
Xuri wrote: » I think its a great addition even for a pacifist style of player I've grown into. Will I partake in forced PvP? No, prolly not. But if I have goods that need to be transported across the sea you bet your tail I'll be hiring Mercs to help transport it for me.
Warth wrote: » ... PvE and PvP is intertwined. You cant just do PvE without the threat of being interrupted by PvP. You wont do much PvP if there wasnt any (PVE) reason for people to travel into the open ocean in the first place.
Warth wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Xuri wrote: » I think its a great addition even for a pacifist style of player I've grown into. Will I partake in forced PvP? No, prolly not. But if I have goods that need to be transported across the sea you bet your tail I'll be hiring Mercs to help transport it for me. Warth wrote: » ... PvE and PvP is intertwined. You cant just do PvE without the threat of being interrupted by PvP. You wont do much PvP if there wasnt any (PVE) reason for people to travel into the open ocean in the first place. That you have to contend with PvP when you do PvE is not and was never the issue (at least for me). That was always part of the design of AoC. Moving goods across the open sea for example was always going to be a risk, since caravans and I assume merchant ships as well were always open for PvP (like caravans on land). The problem is the other stuff that is now possible as well (i.e. griefing in its variaous form) because the griefers have no longer anything thats holding them back. So people who want to grief move into a completely optional area of the map rather than the zones where the general population spends a majority of their tine ? Sounds indeed like a huge loss for the part of the community, that is very PvP averse. /s
Dygz wrote: » Warth wrote: » yes its interdependant, if there wasnt any PvE Content to do on the open ocean, then there wouldnt be anyone to kill for the pirates because (close to nobody) would even venture out to the sea if it was content-barren. Free-for-all PvP combat is not interdependant on PvE. Warth wrote: » Im not sure why the possibility of getting killed suddenly invalidates all the PvE Content that exist within the game for you. Just feels like a strange notion to me. If the possibility of getting killed incites the loss of all interest to you, then Im not sure what to tell you except, the fact, that this certainly will be part of the game. Clearly, you don't see...because there is already the possibility of getting killed with the normal Corruption-flagging PvP. Really has nothing to do with the possibility of getting killed and everything to do with Corruption no longer acting to minimize instances of unwanted PvP combat. No one said that it "invalidates all the PvE content". What it does is disenfranchises players who do not enjoy free-for-all PvP combat. In addition to all the other forms of objective-based, opt-in PvP combat available in the game - Ashes now has a designated auto-flag, free-for-all PvP zone - with unique NPCs and unique treasure-finding opportunities. That's the same thing as a PvP-centric game. Especially in a game with no safe zones. Same difference as EvE Online and ArcheAge. It's OK for it to certainly be a part of the game. It's also OK for me to not play it.
Warth wrote: » yes its interdependant, if there wasnt any PvE Content to do on the open ocean, then there wouldnt be anyone to kill for the pirates because (close to nobody) would even venture out to the sea if it was content-barren.
Warth wrote: » Im not sure why the possibility of getting killed suddenly invalidates all the PvE Content that exist within the game for you. Just feels like a strange notion to me. If the possibility of getting killed incites the loss of all interest to you, then Im not sure what to tell you except, the fact, that this certainly will be part of the game.
JustVine wrote: » We don't know if it's 'completely optional' yet
JustVine wrote: » Warth wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Xuri wrote: » I think its a great addition even for a pacifist style of player I've grown into. Will I partake in forced PvP? No, prolly not. But if I have goods that need to be transported across the sea you bet your tail I'll be hiring Mercs to help transport it for me. Warth wrote: » ... PvE and PvP is intertwined. You cant just do PvE without the threat of being interrupted by PvP. You wont do much PvP if there wasnt any (PVE) reason for people to travel into the open ocean in the first place. That you have to contend with PvP when you do PvE is not and was never the issue (at least for me). That was always part of the design of AoC. Moving goods across the open sea for example was always going to be a risk, since caravans and I assume merchant ships as well were always open for PvP (like caravans on land). The problem is the other stuff that is now possible as well (i.e. griefing in its variaous form) because the griefers have no longer anything thats holding them back. So people who want to grief move into a completely optional area of the map rather than the zones where the general population spends a majority of their tine ? Sounds indeed like a huge loss for the part of the community, that is very PvP averse. /s We don't know if it's 'completely optional' yet. It could be a requirement for end game crafting and gear. We'll just have to wait for them to clarify that part of the design change. Most games that do this type of pvp zone tend to also gate top mats for crafting and gear in such zones. So without further clarification I expect a lot of people to assume that it will for now.
Warth wrote: » JustVine wrote: » Warth wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Xuri wrote: » I think its a great addition even for a pacifist style of player I've grown into. Will I partake in forced PvP? No, prolly not. But if I have goods that need to be transported across the sea you bet your tail I'll be hiring Mercs to help transport it for me. Warth wrote: » ... PvE and PvP is intertwined. You cant just do PvE without the threat of being interrupted by PvP. You wont do much PvP if there wasnt any (PVE) reason for people to travel into the open ocean in the first place. That you have to contend with PvP when you do PvE is not and was never the issue (at least for me). That was always part of the design of AoC. Moving goods across the open sea for example was always going to be a risk, since caravans and I assume merchant ships as well were always open for PvP (like caravans on land). The problem is the other stuff that is now possible as well (i.e. griefing in its variaous form) because the griefers have no longer anything thats holding them back. So people who want to grief move into a completely optional area of the map rather than the zones where the general population spends a majority of their tine ? Sounds indeed like a huge loss for the part of the community, that is very PvP averse. /s We don't know if it's 'completely optional' yet. It could be a requirement for end game crafting and gear. We'll just have to wait for them to clarify that part of the design change. Most games that do this type of pvp zone tend to also gate top mats for crafting and gear in such zones. So without further clarification I expect a lot of people to assume that it will for now. A: If Endgame mats are exclusively obtained there, then its indeed PvX and the entire argument they brought (it not being PvX crumbles). B: Its still completely optional even with rare endgame materials dropping there as you can still just make money otherwise and buy what you need.
JustVine wrote: » We don't know if it's 'completely optional' yet. It could be a requirement for end game crafting and gear.
In the open-sea now, with the auto-flagging, what is the risk for the attackers?
Azherae wrote: » Warth wrote: » JustVine wrote: » Warth wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Xuri wrote: » I think its a great addition even for a pacifist style of player I've grown into. Will I partake in forced PvP? No, prolly not. But if I have goods that need to be transported across the sea you bet your tail I'll be hiring Mercs to help transport it for me. Warth wrote: » ... PvE and PvP is intertwined. You cant just do PvE without the threat of being interrupted by PvP. You wont do much PvP if there wasnt any (PVE) reason for people to travel into the open ocean in the first place. That you have to contend with PvP when you do PvE is not and was never the issue (at least for me). That was always part of the design of AoC. Moving goods across the open sea for example was always going to be a risk, since caravans and I assume merchant ships as well were always open for PvP (like caravans on land). The problem is the other stuff that is now possible as well (i.e. griefing in its variaous form) because the griefers have no longer anything thats holding them back. So people who want to grief move into a completely optional area of the map rather than the zones where the general population spends a majority of their tine ? Sounds indeed like a huge loss for the part of the community, that is very PvP averse. /s We don't know if it's 'completely optional' yet. It could be a requirement for end game crafting and gear. We'll just have to wait for them to clarify that part of the design change. Most games that do this type of pvp zone tend to also gate top mats for crafting and gear in such zones. So without further clarification I expect a lot of people to assume that it will for now. A: If Endgame mats are exclusively obtained there, then its indeed PvX and the entire argument they brought (it not being PvX crumbles). B: Its still completely optional even with rare endgame materials dropping there as you can still just make money otherwise and buy what you need. Ah yes, from all those people who will grant you access to those high level materials before they and their group have farmed it to the point where they have nearly absolute control because they need the money for something other than the best materials in the game which they already have. Economics 101.
Warth wrote: » ... So people who want to grief move into a completely optional area of the map rather than the zones where the general population spends a majority of their tine ? Sounds indeed like a huge loss for the part of the community, that is very PvP averse. /s
Warth wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Warth wrote: » JustVine wrote: » Warth wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Xuri wrote: » I think its a great addition even for a pacifist style of player I've grown into. Will I partake in forced PvP? No, prolly not. But if I have goods that need to be transported across the sea you bet your tail I'll be hiring Mercs to help transport it for me. Warth wrote: » ... PvE and PvP is intertwined. You cant just do PvE without the threat of being interrupted by PvP. You wont do much PvP if there wasnt any (PVE) reason for people to travel into the open ocean in the first place. That you have to contend with PvP when you do PvE is not and was never the issue (at least for me). That was always part of the design of AoC. Moving goods across the open sea for example was always going to be a risk, since caravans and I assume merchant ships as well were always open for PvP (like caravans on land). The problem is the other stuff that is now possible as well (i.e. griefing in its variaous form) because the griefers have no longer anything thats holding them back. So people who want to grief move into a completely optional area of the map rather than the zones where the general population spends a majority of their tine ? Sounds indeed like a huge loss for the part of the community, that is very PvP averse. /s We don't know if it's 'completely optional' yet. It could be a requirement for end game crafting and gear. We'll just have to wait for them to clarify that part of the design change. Most games that do this type of pvp zone tend to also gate top mats for crafting and gear in such zones. So without further clarification I expect a lot of people to assume that it will for now. A: If Endgame mats are exclusively obtained there, then its indeed PvX and the entire argument they brought (it not being PvX crumbles). B: Its still completely optional even with rare endgame materials dropping there as you can still just make money otherwise and buy what you need. Ah yes, from all those people who will grant you access to those high level materials before they and their group have farmed it to the point where they have nearly absolute control because they need the money for something other than the best materials in the game which they already have. Economics 101. And how's that different from the land based rare materials? Guilds will be trying to monopolize those as well. Whether they trade those or not is exactly the same story. Its in no way different.
Azherae wrote: » Ah yes, from all those people who will grant you access to those high level materials before they and their group have farmed it to the point where they have nearly absolute control because they need the money for something other than the best materials in the game which they already have. Economics 101.
Azherae wrote: » Warth wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Warth wrote: » JustVine wrote: » Warth wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Xuri wrote: » I think its a great addition even for a pacifist style of player I've grown into. Will I partake in forced PvP? No, prolly not. But if I have goods that need to be transported across the sea you bet your tail I'll be hiring Mercs to help transport it for me. Warth wrote: » ... PvE and PvP is intertwined. You cant just do PvE without the threat of being interrupted by PvP. You wont do much PvP if there wasnt any (PVE) reason for people to travel into the open ocean in the first place. That you have to contend with PvP when you do PvE is not and was never the issue (at least for me). That was always part of the design of AoC. Moving goods across the open sea for example was always going to be a risk, since caravans and I assume merchant ships as well were always open for PvP (like caravans on land). The problem is the other stuff that is now possible as well (i.e. griefing in its variaous form) because the griefers have no longer anything thats holding them back. So people who want to grief move into a completely optional area of the map rather than the zones where the general population spends a majority of their tine ? Sounds indeed like a huge loss for the part of the community, that is very PvP averse. /s We don't know if it's 'completely optional' yet. It could be a requirement for end game crafting and gear. We'll just have to wait for them to clarify that part of the design change. Most games that do this type of pvp zone tend to also gate top mats for crafting and gear in such zones. So without further clarification I expect a lot of people to assume that it will for now. A: If Endgame mats are exclusively obtained there, then its indeed PvX and the entire argument they brought (it not being PvX crumbles). B: Its still completely optional even with rare endgame materials dropping there as you can still just make money otherwise and buy what you need. Ah yes, from all those people who will grant you access to those high level materials before they and their group have farmed it to the point where they have nearly absolute control because they need the money for something other than the best materials in the game which they already have. Economics 101. And how's that different from the land based rare materials? Guilds will be trying to monopolize those as well. Whether they trade those or not is exactly the same story. Its in no way different. Didn't say it was, it's one of those situations where the entire base premise is so off, that you can't use it as a defense in either case. I'm definitely not saying that 'it's different in the water'. I'm saying that it shouldn't technically work in any situation. If your point is 'well it's the same', then great. As long as it's what Intrepid wants the game to be, I'm all for it.
Not sure what you mean, but with people being able to deck everybody, you also increase the risk of being decked by anybody.
There also should be many multiple types of end game gear mats spread all over the world, to force guilds that mostly monopolize a certain mat to trade with other guilds that mostly monopolize a different end game mat.
