Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » [ I ask you, if you assume that this will cause a loss of interest in some part of the population and that XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » For technical problems technical solutions can be found. They should be discussed. If this was the reason for the change this solution sounds lazy to me. I'd assume that they implemented it, and once they tested perhaps made a judgement call saying that having to flag for this content was bad gameplay Then they should tell us that. And I already have a first idea of the top of my head of how you can make corruption work with ships. We can discuss it if you like, but it would turn this discussion in a totally different direction. Go for it, it's more info for devs OK, its simple. But please remember its a first shot. I did not think about every last aspect. The main ocean content is done by ships, yes? Then why not have ship owners have a ship corruption status that applies to every ship that is summoned by them and is independent from the players corruption state (or from the other occupants). So you summon a ship and the ship gets corruption (or however you want to call it. Lorewise it is of course total crap) and reduces corruption if it does normal naval gameplay or is sunk. Basically the same as on land, only for ships. You still have auto-flagging zones around caravans/merchant ships/world bosses etc. As a drawback fot going back, red ships cannot go to harbors to be repaired or improved until purple. Of course, if the reason was to increase the risk on the ocean that will not help. You have to think about something other there. Interesting take, how would that negatively affect the players on the ship then? And if it got too corrupted, wouldn't it be as simple as making another? It would not affect the players on the ship. I have no problem with that. If they leave the ship they go back to their normal corruption state. I have no problem with distinguishing the two states. What happend on the ocean stays on the ocean. The owners ship corruption status would apply to all ships that they summon. You could use another players ship next time, but summoning is only possible at harbors so that is very inconvenient. Also at some point you have a whole lot of red ships that you have to get to purple somehow. Also they would only be able to be sold in a purple state. At that point I'd have 1 player designated as a corrupt ship and have another player follow without engaging as the designated green ship. Problem arises? Abandon ship and hop on the green one, sail away without dying unless the other already damaged ship decides to engage. I try to think up exploits for everything so don't take it as me saying you're wrong, this is just how I would avoid it
XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » [ I ask you, if you assume that this will cause a loss of interest in some part of the population and that XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » For technical problems technical solutions can be found. They should be discussed. If this was the reason for the change this solution sounds lazy to me. I'd assume that they implemented it, and once they tested perhaps made a judgement call saying that having to flag for this content was bad gameplay Then they should tell us that. And I already have a first idea of the top of my head of how you can make corruption work with ships. We can discuss it if you like, but it would turn this discussion in a totally different direction. Go for it, it's more info for devs OK, its simple. But please remember its a first shot. I did not think about every last aspect. The main ocean content is done by ships, yes? Then why not have ship owners have a ship corruption status that applies to every ship that is summoned by them and is independent from the players corruption state (or from the other occupants). So you summon a ship and the ship gets corruption (or however you want to call it. Lorewise it is of course total crap) and reduces corruption if it does normal naval gameplay or is sunk. Basically the same as on land, only for ships. You still have auto-flagging zones around caravans/merchant ships/world bosses etc. As a drawback fot going back, red ships cannot go to harbors to be repaired or improved until purple. Of course, if the reason was to increase the risk on the ocean that will not help. You have to think about something other there. Interesting take, how would that negatively affect the players on the ship then? And if it got too corrupted, wouldn't it be as simple as making another? It would not affect the players on the ship. I have no problem with that. If they leave the ship they go back to their normal corruption state. I have no problem with distinguishing the two states. What happend on the ocean stays on the ocean. The owners ship corruption status would apply to all ships that they summon. You could use another players ship next time, but summoning is only possible at harbors so that is very inconvenient. Also at some point you have a whole lot of red ships that you have to get to purple somehow. Also they would only be able to be sold in a purple state.
Dolyem wrote: » [ I ask you, if you assume that this will cause a loss of interest in some part of the population and that XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » For technical problems technical solutions can be found. They should be discussed. If this was the reason for the change this solution sounds lazy to me. I'd assume that they implemented it, and once they tested perhaps made a judgement call saying that having to flag for this content was bad gameplay Then they should tell us that. And I already have a first idea of the top of my head of how you can make corruption work with ships. We can discuss it if you like, but it would turn this discussion in a totally different direction. Go for it, it's more info for devs OK, its simple. But please remember its a first shot. I did not think about every last aspect. The main ocean content is done by ships, yes? Then why not have ship owners have a ship corruption status that applies to every ship that is summoned by them and is independent from the players corruption state (or from the other occupants). So you summon a ship and the ship gets corruption (or however you want to call it. Lorewise it is of course total crap) and reduces corruption if it does normal naval gameplay or is sunk. Basically the same as on land, only for ships. You still have auto-flagging zones around caravans/merchant ships/world bosses etc. As a drawback fot going back, red ships cannot go to harbors to be repaired or improved until purple. Of course, if the reason was to increase the risk on the ocean that will not help. You have to think about something other there. Interesting take, how would that negatively affect the players on the ship then? And if it got too corrupted, wouldn't it be as simple as making another?
XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » For technical problems technical solutions can be found. They should be discussed. If this was the reason for the change this solution sounds lazy to me. I'd assume that they implemented it, and once they tested perhaps made a judgement call saying that having to flag for this content was bad gameplay Then they should tell us that. And I already have a first idea of the top of my head of how you can make corruption work with ships. We can discuss it if you like, but it would turn this discussion in a totally different direction. Go for it, it's more info for devs OK, its simple. But please remember its a first shot. I did not think about every last aspect. The main ocean content is done by ships, yes? Then why not have ship owners have a ship corruption status that applies to every ship that is summoned by them and is independent from the players corruption state (or from the other occupants). So you summon a ship and the ship gets corruption (or however you want to call it. Lorewise it is of course total crap) and reduces corruption if it does normal naval gameplay or is sunk. Basically the same as on land, only for ships. You still have auto-flagging zones around caravans/merchant ships/world bosses etc. As a drawback fot going back, red ships cannot go to harbors to be repaired or improved until purple. Of course, if the reason was to increase the risk on the ocean that will not help. You have to think about something other there.
Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » For technical problems technical solutions can be found. They should be discussed. If this was the reason for the change this solution sounds lazy to me. I'd assume that they implemented it, and once they tested perhaps made a judgement call saying that having to flag for this content was bad gameplay Then they should tell us that. And I already have a first idea of the top of my head of how you can make corruption work with ships. We can discuss it if you like, but it would turn this discussion in a totally different direction. Go for it, it's more info for devs
XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » For technical problems technical solutions can be found. They should be discussed. If this was the reason for the change this solution sounds lazy to me. I'd assume that they implemented it, and once they tested perhaps made a judgement call saying that having to flag for this content was bad gameplay Then they should tell us that. And I already have a first idea of the top of my head of how you can make corruption work with ships. We can discuss it if you like, but it would turn this discussion in a totally different direction.
Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » For technical problems technical solutions can be found. They should be discussed. If this was the reason for the change this solution sounds lazy to me. I'd assume that they implemented it, and once they tested perhaps made a judgement call saying that having to flag for this content was bad gameplay
XiraelAcaron wrote: » For technical problems technical solutions can be found. They should be discussed. If this was the reason for the change this solution sounds lazy to me.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vaknar wrote: » Hiya everyone! I merged two threads on the same topic: (Auto-flagging in open sea) together! I also wanted to mention a comment that Steven made following the livestream, which can be found here Steven discussed this topic and brings forward a few notes to remember about different game features and elements to our design direction. I highly encourage everyone to read it! ^_^ Carry on and keep up the awesome discussions! P.S. Please be sure to be well unto one another. I know we're all very passionate about not only the game, but this topic. But remember - we're all here because we love MMORPGs and want to see the game succeed, and we all have that in common I am very concerned that these two specific topics have been merged together for multiple reasons. I do not wish for this to be undone, but I do wish to ask, if another topic was made even more explicitly regarding the reasoning for the change, if that would also be merged. They need to be merged now i dont need to look between two threads it was kind of annoying to keep up with the info. We don't need like 5 different threads running on the same topic.
Azherae wrote: » Vaknar wrote: » Hiya everyone! I merged two threads on the same topic: (Auto-flagging in open sea) together! I also wanted to mention a comment that Steven made following the livestream, which can be found here Steven discussed this topic and brings forward a few notes to remember about different game features and elements to our design direction. I highly encourage everyone to read it! ^_^ Carry on and keep up the awesome discussions! P.S. Please be sure to be well unto one another. I know we're all very passionate about not only the game, but this topic. But remember - we're all here because we love MMORPGs and want to see the game succeed, and we all have that in common I am very concerned that these two specific topics have been merged together for multiple reasons. I do not wish for this to be undone, but I do wish to ask, if another topic was made even more explicitly regarding the reasoning for the change, if that would also be merged.
Vaknar wrote: » Hiya everyone! I merged two threads on the same topic: (Auto-flagging in open sea) together! I also wanted to mention a comment that Steven made following the livestream, which can be found here Steven discussed this topic and brings forward a few notes to remember about different game features and elements to our design direction. I highly encourage everyone to read it! ^_^ Carry on and keep up the awesome discussions! P.S. Please be sure to be well unto one another. I know we're all very passionate about not only the game, but this topic. But remember - we're all here because we love MMORPGs and want to see the game succeed, and we all have that in common
XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » [ I ask you, if you assume that this will cause a loss of interest in some part of the population and that XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » For technical problems technical solutions can be found. They should be discussed. If this was the reason for the change this solution sounds lazy to me. I'd assume that they implemented it, and once they tested perhaps made a judgement call saying that having to flag for this content was bad gameplay Then they should tell us that. And I already have a first idea of the top of my head of how you can make corruption work with ships. We can discuss it if you like, but it would turn this discussion in a totally different direction. Go for it, it's more info for devs OK, its simple. But please remember its a first shot. I did not think about every last aspect. The main ocean content is done by ships, yes? Then why not have ship owners have a ship corruption status that applies to every ship that is summoned by them and is independent from the players corruption state (or from the other occupants). So you summon a ship and the ship gets corruption (or however you want to call it. Lorewise it is of course total crap) and reduces corruption if it does normal naval gameplay or is sunk. Basically the same as on land, only for ships. You still have auto-flagging zones around caravans/merchant ships/world bosses etc. As a drawback fot going back, red ships cannot go to harbors to be repaired or improved until purple. Of course, if the reason was to increase the risk on the ocean that will not help. You have to think about something other there. Interesting take, how would that negatively affect the players on the ship then? And if it got too corrupted, wouldn't it be as simple as making another? It would not affect the players on the ship. I have no problem with that. If they leave the ship they go back to their normal corruption state. I have no problem with distinguishing the two states. What happend on the ocean stays on the ocean. The owners ship corruption status would apply to all ships that they summon. You could use another players ship next time, but summoning is only possible at harbors so that is very inconvenient. Also at some point you have a whole lot of red ships that you have to get to purple somehow. Also they would only be able to be sold in a purple state. At that point I'd have 1 player designated as a corrupt ship and have another player follow without engaging as the designated green ship. Problem arises? Abandon ship and hop on the green one, sail away without dying unless the other already damaged ship decides to engage. I try to think up exploits for everything so don't take it as me saying you're wrong, this is just how I would avoid it I am not sure what the scenario is. Do you want to avoid attacks and use the designated green ship as a get-away or do you want to use the red one to PK and the green one is for what? What is the goal in the latter secenario? In the first scenario, you can do that. You still loose the red ship you abondon. Its a high price to avoid a player death. I would think the ship death would be a higher priority to avoid.
Dolyem wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vaknar wrote: » Hiya everyone! I merged two threads on the same topic: (Auto-flagging in open sea) together! I also wanted to mention a comment that Steven made following the livestream, which can be found here Steven discussed this topic and brings forward a few notes to remember about different game features and elements to our design direction. I highly encourage everyone to read it! ^_^ Carry on and keep up the awesome discussions! P.S. Please be sure to be well unto one another. I know we're all very passionate about not only the game, but this topic. But remember - we're all here because we love MMORPGs and want to see the game succeed, and we all have that in common I am very concerned that these two specific topics have been merged together for multiple reasons. I do not wish for this to be undone, but I do wish to ask, if another topic was made even more explicitly regarding the reasoning for the change, if that would also be merged. They need to be merged now i dont need to look between two threads it was kind of annoying to keep up with the info. We don't need like 5 different threads running on the same topic. Mine was a bit broader than this one but it's whatever to me. We are generally talking about the same topics
George_Black wrote: » Ignore azhrae...
Azherae wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Vaknar wrote: » Hiya everyone! I merged two threads on the same topic: (Auto-flagging in open sea) together! I also wanted to mention a comment that Steven made following the livestream, which can be found here Steven discussed this topic and brings forward a few notes to remember about different game features and elements to our design direction. I highly encourage everyone to read it! ^_^ Carry on and keep up the awesome discussions! P.S. Please be sure to be well unto one another. I know we're all very passionate about not only the game, but this topic. But remember - we're all here because we love MMORPGs and want to see the game succeed, and we all have that in common I am very concerned that these two specific topics have been merged together for multiple reasons. I do not wish for this to be undone, but I do wish to ask, if another topic was made even more explicitly regarding the reasoning for the change, if that would also be merged. They need to be merged now i dont need to look between two threads it was kind of annoying to keep up with the info. We don't need like 5 different threads running on the same topic. Mine was a bit broader than this one but it's whatever to me. We are generally talking about the same topics As long as you're fine with it. It's probably going to end up pivoting to 'discussion of reason' regardless, I admit I was thinking from the perspective of 'people who just want to make topics that are celebrating it', getting thrown into discussions they might not care about, which is probably not a concern.
Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » [ I ask you, if you assume that this will cause a loss of interest in some part of the population and that XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » For technical problems technical solutions can be found. They should be discussed. If this was the reason for the change this solution sounds lazy to me. I'd assume that they implemented it, and once they tested perhaps made a judgement call saying that having to flag for this content was bad gameplay Then they should tell us that. And I already have a first idea of the top of my head of how you can make corruption work with ships. We can discuss it if you like, but it would turn this discussion in a totally different direction. Go for it, it's more info for devs OK, its simple. But please remember its a first shot. I did not think about every last aspect. The main ocean content is done by ships, yes? Then why not have ship owners have a ship corruption status that applies to every ship that is summoned by them and is independent from the players corruption state (or from the other occupants). So you summon a ship and the ship gets corruption (or however you want to call it. Lorewise it is of course total crap) and reduces corruption if it does normal naval gameplay or is sunk. Basically the same as on land, only for ships. You still have auto-flagging zones around caravans/merchant ships/world bosses etc. As a drawback fot going back, red ships cannot go to harbors to be repaired or improved until purple. Of course, if the reason was to increase the risk on the ocean that will not help. You have to think about something other there. Interesting take, how would that negatively affect the players on the ship then? And if it got too corrupted, wouldn't it be as simple as making another? It would not affect the players on the ship. I have no problem with that. If they leave the ship they go back to their normal corruption state. I have no problem with distinguishing the two states. What happend on the ocean stays on the ocean. The owners ship corruption status would apply to all ships that they summon. You could use another players ship next time, but summoning is only possible at harbors so that is very inconvenient. Also at some point you have a whole lot of red ships that you have to get to purple somehow. Also they would only be able to be sold in a purple state. At that point I'd have 1 player designated as a corrupt ship and have another player follow without engaging as the designated green ship. Problem arises? Abandon ship and hop on the green one, sail away without dying unless the other already damaged ship decides to engage. I try to think up exploits for everything so don't take it as me saying you're wrong, this is just how I would avoid it I am not sure what the scenario is. Do you want to avoid attacks and use the designated green ship as a get-away or do you want to use the red one to PK and the green one is for what? What is the goal in the latter secenario? In the first scenario, you can do that. You still loose the red ship you abondon. Its a high price to avoid a player death. I would think the ship death would be a higher priority to avoid. Use the red ship to kill other ships, once you're about to lose you disengage and go to the green ship as not to die and lose materials to the enemy.
Azherae wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » Azherae wrote: » "Please explain if you are still of the opinion that the reason for the change is technical." Sorry, i don't think it's purely technical, just thought it might have played a role. I also think it was made because the kind of content that was planned for the sea and to support the pirate playstyle. Please clarify if you expect Coastal content to not include things like meaningful/complex PvE encounters, in contrast to the Open Sea where it might be necessary to change the flagging system due to such encounters.
mcstackerson wrote: » Azherae wrote: » "Please explain if you are still of the opinion that the reason for the change is technical." Sorry, i don't think it's purely technical, just thought it might have played a role. I also think it was made because the kind of content that was planned for the sea and to support the pirate playstyle.
Azherae wrote: » "Please explain if you are still of the opinion that the reason for the change is technical."
mcstackerson wrote: » Azherae wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » Azherae wrote: » "Please explain if you are still of the opinion that the reason for the change is technical." Sorry, i don't think it's purely technical, just thought it might have played a role. I also think it was made because the kind of content that was planned for the sea and to support the pirate playstyle. Please clarify if you expect Coastal content to not include things like meaningful/complex PvE encounters, in contrast to the Open Sea where it might be necessary to change the flagging system due to such encounters. I'd expect coastal pve enounters to work the same as the ones on land and not involve ships but that is purely my guess. On the ocean, I expect ships to play a larger role in pve encounters like the kraken/leviathon from Archeage but i'm not going to go as far as say the change is necessary. I think the difference between the zones and reason for the change is more that the land has a large variety of content but the sea will probably be focused on high level content.
XiraelAcaron wrote: » The main ocean content is done by ships, yes? Then why not have ship owners have a ship corruption status that applies to every ship that is summoned by them and is independent from the players corruption state (or from the other occupants). So you summon a ship and the ship gets corruption (or however you want to call it. Lorewise it is of course total crap) and reduces corruption if it does normal naval gameplay or is sunk. Basically the same as on land, only for ships. You still have auto-flagging zones around caravans/merchant ships/world bosses etc. As a drawback fot going back, red ships cannot go to harbors to be repaired or improved until purple. Of course, if the reason was to increase the risk on the ocean that will not help. You have to think about something other there.
Azherae wrote: » George_Black wrote: » Ignore azhrae... That's not how you do that, it's a button on my profile if you click through. It's a little hard to find, for some people, but just poke around at anything that looks like an arrow.
Mag7spy wrote: » @Azherae way easier to call you out (on top of it for me on you being manipulative) so people realize then hit block btw.
XiraelAcaron wrote: » But actually that may be a valid tactic and may encourage other pirates to hunt and kill this green ship...it would also go currupt of course...but as all are so happy to tell me risk-vs-rewards.
Dygz wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » The peace and war zones disables and enables pvp, which is a lot different the ashes where pvp is enabled everywhere but is now not punished on the ocean. That is different, yes. It's a non sequitur though.
mcstackerson wrote: » The peace and war zones disables and enables pvp, which is a lot different the ashes where pvp is enabled everywhere but is now not punished on the ocean.
Dygz wrote: » XiraelAcaron wrote: » The main ocean content is done by ships, yes? Then why not have ship owners have a ship corruption status that applies to every ship that is summoned by them and is independent from the players corruption state (or from the other occupants). So you summon a ship and the ship gets corruption (or however you want to call it. Lorewise it is of course total crap) and reduces corruption if it does normal naval gameplay or is sunk. Basically the same as on land, only for ships. You still have auto-flagging zones around caravans/merchant ships/world bosses etc. As a drawback fot going back, red ships cannot go to harbors to be repaired or improved until purple. Of course, if the reason was to increase the risk on the ocean that will not help. You have to think about something other there. I think it was Legendary Neurotoxin who wondered, during The Ashen Forge podcast last night, what if the ships were what gets auto-flagged as Combatants rather than the zone itself. Which works for me, in that I could just use an aquatic mount to explore the Open Seas, while still being flagged as a Non-Combatant. I have a feeling, though, that that just opens up a bunch of other problems/exploits.
Azherae wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » Azherae wrote: » mcstackerson wrote: » Azherae wrote: » "Please explain if you are still of the opinion that the reason for the change is technical." Sorry, i don't think it's purely technical, just thought it might have played a role. I also think it was made because the kind of content that was planned for the sea and to support the pirate playstyle. Please clarify if you expect Coastal content to not include things like meaningful/complex PvE encounters, in contrast to the Open Sea where it might be necessary to change the flagging system due to such encounters. I'd expect coastal pve enounters to work the same as the ones on land and not involve ships but that is purely my guess. On the ocean, I expect ships to play a larger role in pve encounters like the kraken/leviathon from Archeage but i'm not going to go as far as say the change is necessary. I think the difference between the zones and reason for the change is more that the land has a large variety of content but the sea will probably be focused on high level content. Please clarify if you perceive that this high level content will be rewarding enough to be a meaningful impact on the power balance on the server.
