WHIT3ROS3 wrote: » I wonder if there will be Caravan-type missions/quests or if they'll be interwoven into questlines? Like the transportation of some important person or item. Like you have to escort a caravan with a bald man and a dwarf hiding inside
YaBoiWiilly wrote: » I understand the worry, but I think it will provide an awesome style of PvE players meeting PvP players and forcing the interaction!
FastLoaf wrote: » neuroguy wrote: » FastLoaf wrote: » Right now the caravan system feels too complex and tedious while also being so important you have to interreact with it even if you don't want to... Would you like to unpack that? What part of it is complex, what part is tedious and why is it 'so important' from your perspective? From what I understand you go to a caravancery and pick your caravan, then its perks, then load it up, then select where it starts and then follow it to it's destination. This also includes loading it with goods from probably multiple people, so building a party. This may not be "too" complex like I stated above, but it is definitely complex enough to cause people to just flat out ignore it as a system. I personally find that this could also be tedious if I have to do it every time I want to move large amounts of goods and I find that if the game becomes a caravan simulator then that also would be tedious.
neuroguy wrote: » FastLoaf wrote: » Right now the caravan system feels too complex and tedious while also being so important you have to interreact with it even if you don't want to... Would you like to unpack that? What part of it is complex, what part is tedious and why is it 'so important' from your perspective?
FastLoaf wrote: » Right now the caravan system feels too complex and tedious while also being so important you have to interreact with it even if you don't want to...
DarkTides wrote: » What's so valuable about a Caravan that you'd even want to attack it to begin with? Why would anyone attack a caravan that carries lumber, if you can get it yourself?
DarkTides wrote: » And then how do you carry it all? If you captured Caravans...then took the Caravan to where you want it to go....destroying Caravans if you want to sabotage a trade route, and pillaging very little if it can be carried easily... is what should happen...what happens in reality? The closer you get to reality, the more exciting it should get since our imagination is based off of, and simulating, what we know to occur, but you need systems and rules in place to make that happen.
DarkTides wrote: » Castle Sieges..people fleeing from a siege...Caravans would be used by players who wish to get all of their items out asap. What happens in War? You burn their stuff or capture it and haul it back...you do not put it in your magic infinite space pockets.
DarkTides wrote: » Resources running out, with particular resources being limited to certain areas. Capturing a Caravan with these resources would be useful...bringing back small amounts in your bags otherwise... but I'm worried about the ruleset for what you can carry not really lining up with everything else.
DarkTides wrote: » The mention of trade routes is where I'd like to see a continual link between harvesting locations, and the transport of goods from that place back to the node, although this seems to be between nodes.
Mongkhai wrote: » Don't worry mate. Probably there will be some protection available for caravans. Of course these will yield lower rewards. They don't want to mess with the experience of players who doesn't like PVP. In Archeage you can buy protection from an NPC ship captain, and for an hour you cannot be attacked. But, you can only bring 1 package at the time. I guess something similar will be here as well. They could also implement a threshold system. Like you cannot be attacked, if you are only carrying like the 30-40% of the max capacity of your caravan.
TheWolfofGar wrote: » I think another important thing to consider is you only need to caravan if your are moving your materials from point a to b, in most instances people will likely start gathering and focusing on resources centralized to their primary node, meaning they wont need to caravan at all. FastLoaf wrote: » My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together. When you want to make a merchant run given the lack of fast travel you will be making the journey from a-b regardless so using the caravan and timing it with a few friends or mercs will be a part of the rp aspect or you can brave it alone. I don't think there will be many instances when you will be simply sending caravans across the world unattended and if you are you accept that risk, unless you are gathering far from home and stockpiling in a nearby node, but even then it would make sense to escort the resources home when you are done your gathering. As for raiding caravans to prevent a node leveling or important siege equipment from arriving I think that is actually a tactic that should be encouraged. imagine 4/5 metropolis have been made and you and another t5 node are nearing the final stretch it would be silly to simply let resources get to your rival city have supplies arriving consistently you should be actively working to undermine them. For sieges it seems obvious to me that you would need to defend those en route, why would I let someone bring a trebuchet to my doorstep when I can destroy it in open pvp with no corruption risk. As well as undermine the enemy siege in the process. I think caravans will likely be far less frequent then you fear I think well likely see early on smaller caravans then as nodes develop people organize larger scheduled caravan runs which promise safety and consistency, as well as smaller runs which try to out race these large slow runs. Or see guilds take on the role of Caravan Guard where for a fee they'll escort your goods if you need to keep gathering or working away from home
FastLoaf wrote: » My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together.
Vaknar wrote: » TheWolfofGar wrote: » I think another important thing to consider is you only need to caravan if your are moving your materials from point a to b, in most instances people will likely start gathering and focusing on resources centralized to their primary node, meaning they wont need to caravan at all. FastLoaf wrote: » My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together. When you want to make a merchant run given the lack of fast travel you will be making the journey from a-b regardless so using the caravan and timing it with a few friends or mercs will be a part of the rp aspect or you can brave it alone. I don't think there will be many instances when you will be simply sending caravans across the world unattended and if you are you accept that risk, unless you are gathering far from home and stockpiling in a nearby node, but even then it would make sense to escort the resources home when you are done your gathering. As for raiding caravans to prevent a node leveling or important siege equipment from arriving I think that is actually a tactic that should be encouraged. imagine 4/5 metropolis have been made and you and another t5 node are nearing the final stretch it would be silly to simply let resources get to your rival city have supplies arriving consistently you should be actively working to undermine them. For sieges it seems obvious to me that you would need to defend those en route, why would I let someone bring a trebuchet to my doorstep when I can destroy it in open pvp with no corruption risk. As well as undermine the enemy siege in the process. I think caravans will likely be far less frequent then you fear I think well likely see early on smaller caravans then as nodes develop people organize larger scheduled caravan runs which promise safety and consistency, as well as smaller runs which try to out race these large slow runs. Or see guilds take on the role of Caravan Guard where for a fee they'll escort your goods if you need to keep gathering or working away from home This is a great comment! Like others have said, it's hard to make a judgment until it can actually be played and experienced first-hand. As this comment states, there are plenty of reasons for the system to exist and thrive. The example of two nodes battling for supremacy is a great example of why the caravan system adds fantastic depth to the node system. Really, they complement each other well. Of course, once we get feedback on the system during testing, there are elements to it that may adapt and change ^_^
FastLoaf wrote: » I actually would not mind an exploration of removing the whole system from the game and replacing it with things like mount upgrades that make it visually obvious that someone is a trader. Then that person can hire people to protect them or the guild can allocate members to be protectors of guild merchants.
FastLoaf wrote: » My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together. I really don't want this game to become a caravan simulator. I actually would not mind an exploration of removing the whole system from the game and replacing it with things like mount upgrades that make it visually obvious that someone is a trader. Then that person can hire people to protect them or the guild can allocate members to be protectors of guild merchants. This would leave the importance of trade value to the player. Right now the caravan system feels too complex and tedious while also being so important you have to interreact with it even if you don't want to, which has been a problem with many systems in other MMO games.
akabear wrote: » Wonder if you will be able to schedule caraven sending.. ie schedule an after peak player count delivery?_
Bullvinne wrote: » I understand your worry, but I think until we see the caravan system in action, its too soon to call for complete changes. I think the whole Gathering/Processing/Crafting/Caravan system looks interesting, and I hope it works, but seems so complicated that I wonder if it could fall apart in practicality.For example: Since we have to choose to be only a Gatherer, Processor, or Crafter; I can see a huge bottle-neck in the early start of the game for both Processors and Crafters since they cannot gather their own materials. I feel what is going to happen is that once the game starts, EVERYONE will be gatherers at first since there will be no supply of materials to process or craft with, then after a few weeks/month or so, some will likely break off into processing once their is supply up. Oh but then either the nodes will need to be leveled up and have processing equipment OR those players have to have a freehold (Which is hard to get). Then once processed materials are readily available will others go into crafting. ALL of that is only if you can switch between gathering/processing/crafting on one character. If not, then you will have crafters and processors sitting around for a while, twiddling their thumbs until gathered mats start coming in from the gatherers. Then you have the risk of carrying gathering materials on you, or in a caravan... Its a pretty interesting system and I do hope it works well. I just see that there is a chance for it to not work out like the developers are hoping since there are soooo many moving parts to the system.
DarkTides wrote: » . Vaknar wrote: » TheWolfofGar wrote: » I think another important thing to consider is you only need to caravan if your are moving your materials from point a to b, in most instances people will likely start gathering and focusing on resources centralized to their primary node, meaning they wont need to caravan at all. FastLoaf wrote: » My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together. When you want to make a merchant run given the lack of fast travel you will be making the journey from a-b regardless so using the caravan and timing it with a few friends or mercs will be a part of the rp aspect or you can brave it alone. I don't think there will be many instances when you will be simply sending caravans across the world unattended and if you are you accept that risk, unless you are gathering far from home and stockpiling in a nearby node, but even then it would make sense to escort the resources home when you are done your gathering. As for raiding caravans to prevent a node leveling or important siege equipment from arriving I think that is actually a tactic that should be encouraged. imagine 4/5 metropolis have been made and you and another t5 node are nearing the final stretch it would be silly to simply let resources get to your rival city have supplies arriving consistently you should be actively working to undermine them. For sieges it seems obvious to me that you would need to defend those en route, why would I let someone bring a trebuchet to my doorstep when I can destroy it in open pvp with no corruption risk. As well as undermine the enemy siege in the process. I think caravans will likely be far less frequent then you fear I think well likely see early on smaller caravans then as nodes develop people organize larger scheduled caravan runs which promise safety and consistency, as well as smaller runs which try to out race these large slow runs. Or see guilds take on the role of Caravan Guard where for a fee they'll escort your goods if you need to keep gathering or working away from home This is a great comment! Like others have said, it's hard to make a judgment until it can actually be played and experienced first-hand. As this comment states, there are plenty of reasons for the system to exist and thrive. The example of two nodes battling for supremacy is a great example of why the caravan system adds fantastic depth to the node system. Really, they complement each other well. Of course, once we get feedback on the system during testing, there are elements to it that may adapt and change ^_^ 100% I can't make a judgement until I see it and experience it. I love the idea of caravans, what they bring to the game and value a well thought out implementation. At present, and based on what's been shared, I can only speculate what may or not happen, given all the moving parts. Id say most of the concern likely revolves around the use of personal caravans, as that, on the surface, results in the largest direct personal loss to a player, perceived as a loss of time invested. If not done so already, it is a mecessity to figure out how to create a need for caravans to be used as opposed to not, in a manner that is useful and fun, and to generate scenarios where there is a need to raid caravans, also useful and fun. I can come up with many from whats been shared, although I think some tweaks are required. I personally feel capturing a caravan and hauling it off for your own is a better alternative than destroying it and getting a portion of the loot. Now the guy who's caravan was attacked has a chance to retake it.... I also feel the goods being transported, should the caravan be destroyed, should remain where they are, requiring another caravan to arrive to pick it up, with a percentage of goods being destroyed. Furthermore, if you intend to fully destroy whats on a caravan, you should have the option to burn the loot pile afterwards.
