Night time darkness levels and lighting

I really want to hear if anyone has any great reasons why night time shouldn't be so dark sometimes that lighting is important.

It's not incredibly relevant to gameplay, though it would add some very interesting dynamics. I just think it's one of the coolest things you can do in a game, a very immersive feature. It works out fantastically in minecraft and terraria, though they are very different games I could imagine it working just fine in AoC.

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Ironhope

I want a dark night.

It makes the adventure game feel like an actual adventure.

More dangerous.

It also makes for a better atmosphere and cool-looking night fights.

Schwann36

I'd love having darkness as a mechanic in dungeons but I think it's probably important to leave it mostly clear of the main world.
A casual player jumping on for their only time in a week and finding that they can barely make out anything and struggle to play the game doesn't sound like a fun time. As others have said, it also messes with the balance of some things.

I do expect some darker times though. Nighttime with a thunderstorm would be absolutely amazing (though would need seizure safe settings).

It depends on how long the night cycle is really.
I remember with Ark Survival, some nights with rain it was almost pitch black and I'd just camp out and wait until day because it wasn't too long a time. The longer the night the more impactful it will be.

CROW3

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Ambiance, Atmosphere, Environment and Immersion are all super important. All are superseded by gameplay. Not being able to see what you are doing is not fun.

I think you can add gameplay options that blend with dark darkness and still be fun. This is where Ashes can leverage the lightning engine / tools in UE5. Introduce basic to advanced lighting for PCs - from handheld torches to floating magical orbs. Add squibs and flash bangs for night time raids. Provide some racial augments for low-light vision. Increase the damage and stealthiness of mobs at night (such as wolves and undead). Provide weapon augments that have a day/night buffs or debuffs (similar to Skyrim). All of this adds options for gameplay while increasing the overall risk / tension in the world. Hell, even settled metros can become dangerous with nighttime incursions of guild rogues to wreak havoc.

I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to add some interesting gameplay here.

Bullvinne

I say no to pitch-black or super dark nights. Mainly, since people can pump the crud out of their gamma and still see fine, those who want the "immersion" will be at a disadvantage in any potential PVP situations at night if the other opponent is optimizing to win.

Even if others can't use the monitor or game's gamma setting to get a leg-up on the competition, the world they are building is beautiful and immersive, it would suck if when the game went into night, you couldn't see that beautiful world.

CROW3

Bullvinne wrote: »

the world they are building is beautiful and immersive, it would suck if when the game went into night, you couldn't see that beautiful world.

Night wouldn’t hide that beauty. Maybe it could expose a whole other type of beauty.

I mean, have you ever seen the amber blend of torchlight and the moon reflected in the 8 eyes of an Umberhulk?

It’s utterly enchanting.

Lethality

Caww wrote: »

no thank you, please provide enough ambient lighting to prevent pitch-black screens...

Why, though? I think darkness is one of the key elements that can enhance gameplay in a game like this.

Volgaris

True dark would be fun. With UE5 maybe they can do it too. At least in caves or dungeons. In the open world it might cause some performance issues with all the shadows. It'd have to be that type of darkness that doesn't change with your brightness/gamma settings. This could lead to some horror genre quests.

daveywavey

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

I really want to hear if anyone has any great reasons why night time shouldn't be so dark sometimes that lighting is important.

It's not incredibly relevant to gameplay, though it would add some very interesting dynamics. I just think it's one of the coolest things you can do in a game, a very immersive feature. It works out fantastically in minecraft and terraria, though they are very different games I could imagine it working just fine in AoC.

Cos it's fricking boring not being able to see anything. And, if you happen to only be able to log in during those hours, you'll be playing in constant darkness. Turns out that in order to play a game, you actually need to be able to see the game!

daveywavey

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Ambiance, Atmosphere, Environment and Immersion are all super important. All are superseded by gameplay. Not being able to see what you are doing is not fun.

Sapiverenus

I think dark nights, caves, and buildings are good.
Some nights can be bright with full moons; otherwise light sources should be required for full vision.

Adjusting to lower light levels should be a thing though; use a bright torch and dark adjustment starts to fade or doesn't develop nearly as much. 8 minutes in the dark and night vision should improve quite a bit.
Thus light sources are particularly necessary when moving between light and dark areas or when an enemy can "cut the lights".

I'd like a stat benefiting night vision, class and racial modifier affecting night vision as well.
Certain potions and foods can increase night vision.

I don't like higher performance requirements though. Simplified lighting would need to exist while not conferring additional advantage or disadvantage.

daveywavey wrote: »

Cos it's fricking boring not being able to see anything. And, if you happen to only be able to log in during those hours, you'll be playing in constant darkness. Turns out that in order to play a game, you actually need to be able to see the game!

Just use light sources and roll a race with better night vision.

Strevi

Tulnar should have natural bonus in darkness.

PapaWhiskey

Hey all! As an AOC fellow traveler and explorer, I am loving all the comments and feedback!
As for me, I would like to see the ambience and atmosphere have a nice balance around beauty and chaos! Some nights with clear skies accompanied by a beautiful moonlight. And other days or nights covered in clouds, with gloom, or fog. And please, when it is time for the pouring rain to come down .. give me thunder and lightning too!!!
If some folks want to tweak their visuals to have better visibility, let them .. but also let the folks who want the immersion to sink in! I am not advocating for pitch black nights all the time. not even most of the time.
I would just love to see some nice variation within the context that the Devs are already showcasing (Seasonal Tech Demo).

Oh, and Devs, dont forget those red, bright eyes for predators and wildlife at night! Epic scene!

Take care folks!

CROW3

PapaWhiskey wrote: »

Oh, and Devs, dont forget those red, bright eyes for predators and wildlife at night! Epic scene!

Did you get a chance to play Red Dead Redemption 2? How did you like the nights in that game?

Atama

I like having darkness. This game intends to evoke some old school MMO aesthetics and dealing with darkness was one of them. I remember in EQ how critical it was to have a light source.

That being said, I believe in making it a mechanic rather than just an environmental change. I don’t think dimming the ambient brightness will be effective because as mentioned before, players can adjust gamma to effectively give themselves night vision. But if you transform objects into true silhouettes, and make other things completely invisible, then gamma settings will not help. You will still lose detail and just not see certain things (like hazards or enemies).

Make stealth work better (or at all) in darkness. Have darkness be an ability just as light is. Imagine a mage that can cloak a battlefield for an allied rogue. Darkness doesn’t have to always be a bad thing for players. Have darkness be a puzzle or obstacle in dungeons and events. Make it an extra danger in dungeons.

I don’t like the idea of night just being dark. That’s neither fun nor realistic. Most of the time the stars and moon provide enough light for a person to generally see where they are. Even a new moon makes things darker but not pitch black. Heavy cloud cover or thick foliage might make things dark enough you need a light source to see anything, but you’re effectively adding a “ceiling” of sorts just like being underground.

Anyway, darkness can be great for both fun and immersion if you do it properly.

daveywavey

Sapiverenus wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Cos it's fricking boring not being able to see anything. And, if you happen to only be able to log in during those hours, you'll be playing in constant darkness. Turns out that in order to play a game, you actually need to be able to see the game!

Just use light sources and roll a race with better night vision.

So, anyone who wants to actually see what they're playing has to roll one specific race, assuming that there's even one that has better night vision? That sounds like a pretty sucky "solution" to the problem. It's an MMO, not a Horror Survival. We're allowed to see what we're doing!

Plandemonium

Obamanizer wrote: »

Ultimate reason why we won't get pitch black or even close is because you can adjust the gamma setting on your pc and massively game the system for huge advantage. While I think we should still have pretty dark nights and not some joke of a night where you still see like you got sun glasses ln, I hope we get cycles of 75% reduced light nights to 90% reduced light nights.

The idea is great, but unfortunately the first thing I thought was the same as in the comment above. So there is no way to implement something like this.

akabear

heebi wrote: »

Obamanizer wrote: »

Ultimate reason why we won't get pitch black or even close is because you can adjust the gamma setting on your pc and massively game the system for huge advantage. While I think we should still have pretty dark nights and not some joke of a night where you still see like you got sun glasses ln, I hope we get cycles of 75% reduced light nights to 90% reduced light nights.

The idea is great, but unfortunately the first thing I thought was the same as in the comment above. So there is no way to implement something like this.

1) who in their right mind would adjust the gamma settings on their monitor every time they started a game
2) U5 , not so difficult to change the lighting settings to have dark to pitch black. and negligible contrast. (harder to make great light settings than bad ones!)

SongRune

akabear wrote: »

heebi wrote: »

Obamanizer wrote: »

Ultimate reason why we won't get pitch black or even close is because you can adjust the gamma setting on your pc and massively game the system for huge advantage. While I think we should still have pretty dark nights and not some joke of a night where you still see like you got sun glasses ln, I hope we get cycles of 75% reduced light nights to 90% reduced light nights.

The idea is great, but unfortunately the first thing I thought was the same as in the comment above. So there is no way to implement something like this.

1) who in their right mind would adjust the gamma settings on their monitor every time they started a game
2) U5 , not so difficult to change the lighting settings to have dark to pitch black. and negligible contrast. (harder to make great light settings than bad ones!)

I will literally have to. Bards are balanced around having their buffs active. If I have time to see an attacker coming and buff myself, I am significantly stronger (i.e. actually equal to that attacker). If I don't, I have to fight without the significant buffs my class is balanced around having.

A lot of people may not realize how significant that is, so I'll translate:

Based on the "fair balance" level of power for Bard buffs in a "party of 8" game, that is the equivalent of a Fighter starting the fight with a permanent -15% to -20% attack and defense debuff, but with the option to take a 10-15 second hard CC (casting time) to remove it. For perspective, at level 50 (assuming linear stat scaling), low visibility de-levels Bards from level 50 to level 40-42 in PvP.

It sucks for anyone, but a Fighter gets to be level 50 the moment they're attacked. Bards get to be lv50 half a TTK later. So yeah. I'll set the Gamma. I don't exactly get a choice.

Asraiel

well even do haveing some dark or rather pitch balck nigths seems ok, specaly could be achives with a mooncycle however i dislike that it will be permanent.
i mostly play at home and during the afternoon the sun may shine inside which does darken the visual on the screen allredy a lot. also needs to be countered that some peoples may not or nolonger have a good sigth soe they should ne be forced to close the game and wait until its bright enouth again to see something on their screen.

in caves i could definetly see that it has parts that are covered in darkness where you dont see a thing.

whatever it will be in the end AoC will be a Fantasy MMO-RPG, with a nice looking environment. and not be as like witcher or skyrim, dark maybe creepy

i think it would be best if every player can ste the brigthness at in the settings as it often is asked by other games. so those who wishes to play in the dark can do, those that wanna have it brither can do. if you loose in pvp because you did set the brightness level wrong its your problem.

Edit:
In alpha 1 we had a bugged spot where the light failed in a area where it would be brigth as during the day in the deathvalley but it was pitch black and sadly there was a quest item to be picked up which was hidden behind a structure but since you didnt see a thing finding it was something that took you more than a few minutes even do the area was tiny.

Atama

Asraiel wrote: »

In alpha 1 we had a bugged spot where the light failed in a area where it would be brigth as during the day in the deathvalley but it was pitch black and sadly there was a quest item to be picked up which was hidden behind a structure but since you didnt see a thing finding it was something that took you more than a few minutes even do the area was tiny.

I remember that and ran into that a few times. It was pretty jarring.

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