Strevi wrote: » I think the gameplay balance is based on land movement only. Flying mounts would require air combat pvp.
CROW3 wrote: » Well, if the expectation is set that a flying mount will only be acquired by at most 1/1,000 players on a server, and that it's a temporary mount, where's the attachment? You get a temporary flying buff for x amount of time. Enjoy being that luck bastard for that time. I don't want flying mounts to be permanent because 1) it means the 1/1,000 proportion will slowly rise, and 2) flying mounts eliminate the vertical scale of the environment. Just my 2 cents though.
BKPopica wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Well, if the expectation is set that a flying mount will only be acquired by at most 1/1,000 players on a server, and that it's a temporary mount, where's the attachment? You get a temporary flying buff for x amount of time. Enjoy being that luck bastard for that time. I don't want flying mounts to be permanent because 1) it means the 1/1,000 proportion will slowly rise, and 2) flying mounts eliminate the vertical scale of the environment. Just my 2 cents though. That's really a nice point of view. You could see this as a temporary flying buff for a certain period of time, even though I'm not entirely sure how it currently works 100% so this is why I'm looking forward to someone to shed some light on this one But still, it's a flying mount, to which most players won't even have access most likely. How does it impact the game? What is its value exactly? If it's completely removed will it make any changes to the game itself? What is the logic behind the drop (You get an egg, you raise it into a flying mount, and after a certain time the mount is like " Yeah, nah bro, time to be free). At this point, it simply feels like it's lacking something idk. A temporary flying buff for 10-15 people in the whole server, and those people will constantly change.
BKPopica wrote: » Strevi wrote: » I think the gameplay balance is based on land movement only. Flying mounts would require air combat pvp. I completely agree, and I do see how flying mounts would be mostly vanity. But there are a lot of hardcore players (not me) that want collectibles and would like to have this type of vanity if available. When you gain something, that you know you will lose in the near future you won't value it as much as you would if you would keep it and had to take care of it maybe.
Strevi wrote: » BKPopica wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Well, if the expectation is set that a flying mount will only be acquired by at most 1/1,000 players on a server, and that it's a temporary mount, where's the attachment? You get a temporary flying buff for x amount of time. Enjoy being that luck bastard for that time. I don't want flying mounts to be permanent because 1) it means the 1/1,000 proportion will slowly rise, and 2) flying mounts eliminate the vertical scale of the environment. Just my 2 cents though. That's really a nice point of view. You could see this as a temporary flying buff for a certain period of time, even though I'm not entirely sure how it currently works 100% so this is why I'm looking forward to someone to shed some light on this one But still, it's a flying mount, to which most players won't even have access most likely. How does it impact the game? What is its value exactly? If it's completely removed will it make any changes to the game itself? What is the logic behind the drop (You get an egg, you raise it into a flying mount, and after a certain time the mount is like " Yeah, nah bro, time to be free). At this point, it simply feels like it's lacking something idk. A temporary flying buff for 10-15 people in the whole server, and those people will constantly change. The logic is to tempt players to become politicians. Mayors. Do you like politicians in real life?
BKPopica wrote: » Strevi wrote: » BKPopica wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Well, if the expectation is set that a flying mount will only be acquired by at most 1/1,000 players on a server, and that it's a temporary mount, where's the attachment? You get a temporary flying buff for x amount of time. Enjoy being that luck bastard for that time. I don't want flying mounts to be permanent because 1) it means the 1/1,000 proportion will slowly rise, and 2) flying mounts eliminate the vertical scale of the environment. Just my 2 cents though. That's really a nice point of view. You could see this as a temporary flying buff for a certain period of time, even though I'm not entirely sure how it currently works 100% so this is why I'm looking forward to someone to shed some light on this one But still, it's a flying mount, to which most players won't even have access most likely. How does it impact the game? What is its value exactly? If it's completely removed will it make any changes to the game itself? What is the logic behind the drop (You get an egg, you raise it into a flying mount, and after a certain time the mount is like " Yeah, nah bro, time to be free). At this point, it simply feels like it's lacking something idk. A temporary flying buff for 10-15 people in the whole server, and those people will constantly change. The logic is to tempt players to become politicians. Mayors. Do you like politicians in real life? I can see that being an incentive for mayors and guild leaders, indeed, it's just that the part of losing that is what doesn't sit well with me. Though seeing it just as a temporary flying buff instead of an actual mount would be more accurate with what it would be.
BKPopica wrote: » If this would not be okay then I feel like simply removing it completely and maybe using the system for something else in the future would be a much better option.
Sengarden wrote: » I have one friend in particular who's very hesitant to play Ashes because of how fun a good flying system can be - I'm thinking of GW2 here as an example - and he's concerned he'll never get to enjoy that experience in-game. I've heard the old argument that flying mounts can shrink the feel of the world and reduce OWPvP, and also the valid argument that they can make the transportation of goods too simple. However - since Intrepid has claimed time and again through their continued development of the Corruption system that PvP on land is essentially a bad idea overall (you take a risk on getting corrupted whenever you attack someone, and no one can voluntarily flag for PvP) I really don't see flying mounts getting in the way of "healthy amounts of OWPvP" since they seem to be saying through the corruption system that OWPvP is not healthy (unless you're on a ship for some reason). With that in mind, we've got a flimsy argument of flying mounts "making the world feel smaller" which never feels justified in any MMO, a fairly invalid argument that they'll reduce OWPvP, and a valid argument of flying mounts making the transportation of goods too simple. Here's my proposed solution: 1. Make flying mounts still very hard to get. Not as difficult as only having half a dozen on a server, but very difficult. You have to really want it to get one. 2. Next, I think it's a fair argument that any flying creature needs to be fairly light-weight and delicate compared to an average land creature of similar size, especially any flying creature small enough for an average humanoid to ride on. With this in mind, I find it only realistic that one of these creatures would not be able to bear the burden of a sizeable quantity of goods. Less so than a land mount, for certain. Make it so that players cannot efficiently use flying mounts to transport goods to other places. They are used almost exclusively for leisure and personal transportation. 3. Finally, I think something that could limit the number of flying mounts while still making them accessible to "all" players regardless of their political status would be to require the mount to have a dedicated "roost" of sorts. Kind of like how the taxi-mounts in WoW all hang out on a perch or a nest of straw: Griffons have a nest of sorts, wyverns have roosts, bats have perches to hang from, etc. This would require freehold owners to sacrifice a building spot on their homestead or renters in the city to rent space in a special building purchased and upgraded by the city to house their flying companion. I say companion, singular, because this would also limit players to only owning one flying mount at a time. I don't see a problem with 25% or so of max level players having flying mounts as long as they don't noticeably affect the artisan systems. It's a fun, unique experience exclusive to fantasy and I see no reason to gatekeep that experience to less than a hundred players out of several thousands on a server for no realistic reason other than "No, this is for gigachads only, sorry."
BKPopica wrote: » I really like this point of view /o/ The mounts in GW2 are one of my favorites as well, and I really like them, but yeah, mainly I don't mind so much limiting this to fewer players, the only thing I don't like is the fact that it's limited, but yeah if it would be like the flying mounts that would be taking you from point A to point B without the player having control over it would make so much more sense (I think it was something like that in Tera too with the Griffin). Guess we're gonna see how it will be in the game and hope for the best /o/
Sengarden wrote: » Thankfully this is one of the systems they can easily change at a later point if the playerbase demands it.
Zeeneaze wrote: » If a Pelican is one of the flying mounts, I'd do everything I could to obtain it.
Sengarden wrote: » BKPopica wrote: » I really like this point of view /o/ The mounts in GW2 are one of my favorites as well, and I really like them, but yeah, mainly I don't mind so much limiting this to fewer players, the only thing I don't like is the fact that it's limited, but yeah if it would be like the flying mounts that would be taking you from point A to point B without the player having control over it would make so much more sense (I think it was something like that in Tera too with the Griffin). Guess we're gonna see how it will be in the game and hope for the best /o/ Thankfully this is one of the systems they can easily change at a later point if the playerbase demands it.
SongRune wrote: » Everyone here is looking at flying mount as a prestige thing, and that perspective makes sense from the majority of players. But that's not what they're for. They are command & control outposts for sieges, large battles, major PvP or PvE events. They are a gameplay mechanic with tactical value. If you're sieging a metropolis, their mayor can fly safely over the battlefield, and give orders, sight sneak attacks, and bring back reconnaissance. These mounts might be prestige, but that's a small secondary benefit. They are a powerful tactical tool which allows you to put your commander in the absolute ideal position on the battlefield. People are thinking in terms of "the prestige being less because it goes away". That's not what it is. Earning a flying mount from high-level raid content is a way of gaining a tactical advantage to equal your opponent's and give you another powerful tool to siege the metropolis or take the castle you've had your eye on. It absolutely makes sense for that buff (like a siege scroll) to be a temporary thing. It's preparation and buildup for a server-level event, not some personal "look how cool I am" for top-end raiders.
