Whats your favorite elements of combat from which mmorpgs?

Please rank all of your favorite elements, from your preference of action/tab target/hybrid/etc. mmorpg combat systems.

Feel free to bring up your favorite combat system- if it helps spark any ideas, most people tend to use the following games' combat systems to draw inspiration from- BDO, Blade and soul, Terra, GW2, WOW, etc.

Which mmorpg combat system did what best, and why?

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Ace1234

@Sapiverenus
Yea, hopefully that won't be an issue, it sounds like they have plans on cracking down on cheaters. Only time will tell though.

Ace1234

@Natasha
Yea I love that kind of gameplay as well. Thankfully it sounds like the systems in Ashes will allow for that politcal/social/psychological aspect to be very relevant as well.

Sapiverenus

grisu wrote: »

I still think WoW till BC, maybe Wrath had it figured out the best. Granted Classic had a lot of overall issues and the class balance stayed janky in every patch but it was in an acceptable range( most of the time) imo. It was an overall amazing combat feel.
You had a lot of interclass dependency that always made you relevant.
A lot of actual different play styles from rotations, to priority systems, to different resource/ stance dance management types. You had quick reflex builds, laid back builds, various skill ceilings, complexity ranged from semi afk to wtf are you even doing. It just had all the choices back then. Gimme back stutter stepping. >:[
Class identity was a thing, imagine.
It just felt good, everything flowed pretty naturally. You got introduced to more and more skills that worked with one another in some way from the get go that made sense and once you sit down to really look at the details it often provided just another layer of depth to it.
And then there was all that flair. Life was good back then. To bad they shilled out.

What did stutter stepping even do; you mean kiting and such?

Ace1234

@Sapiverenus
"What did stutter stepping even do; you mean kiting and such?"

He is probably referring to something to do with microspacing/movement mixups. In which case I am 100% down for that- imo there needs to be an emphasis on movement options for strategic positioning through range control (macro/micro spacing), and timing mixups. I think that adds engagement, and adds to the skill gap regardless of what the combat system looks like.

Mag7spy

Black desert online - fluidity of movement between skills done in a way that is akin to doing combos in a fighting game. Responsive and has a depth of skill to it.

TheDarkSorcerer

It's ESO for me. Without lag and horrible combat developer decisions, it is by far the best PvP experience on the market when it comes to fluid and fast-paced action combat. No mmo can compete with ESO PvP.

Sapiverenus

@Ace1234
Micro-spacing isn't much of a thing in WoW though. You have a 180 degree hemisphere to attack and range is 'sticky' so it extendo arms when someone backs up and especially when they run away.
It's not like Dota/ League where stutter stepping is how you move and attack with minimal down-time between.

LordPax

Im not sure if its been said yet, but the "active shielding" seen in games like Elder Scrolls, New World, etc. Its a simple mechanic, but having a "protected" region, depending on where you are facing, is engrossing and enjoyable.

Besides that, I will be very excited to see how Ranger's pets, Summoner's summons, and general 'battle pets', work in combat. I can't actually recall a game thats done them well.

Ace1234

@Sapiverenus
Oh gotchya, haven't played much wow myself, makes sense from what i've seen of it though. Not sure then what the "stutter stepping" was reffering to unless it had something to do with utilizing the turn radius you mentioned.

DarkTides

What I feel needs improvement in most MMOS are the animated graphics, when players are getting hit, or doing the hitting.

Its almost always a generic swing of a weapon, hitting the hit box, and a HP bar goes down. I feel this area of gameplay needs to be spiced up, to make combat more exciting/visually appealing.

Ace1234

@Mag7spy
Yeah I love a fluid and responsive combat system-

To me the fluid and fast pacing is very imortant for rewarding decision making, option management, quick thinking, while also being more engaging overall.

I like the responsiveness since its very important to having a sense of freedom, control, and rewarding reactions

Ace1234

@TheDarkSorcerer
Sounds like you like ESO for the same reasons Mag likes BDO- the fluid responsive combat. Is there a reason your prefer ESO over something like BDOs combat?

Ace1234

Mag7spy

Ace1234 wrote: »

@Mag7spy
Yeah I love a fluid and responsive combat system-

To me the fluid and fast pacing is very imortant for rewarding decision making, option management, quick thinking, while also being more engaging overall.

I like the responsiveness since its very important to having a sense of freedom, control, and rewarding reactions

Ya if they have half that feeling this mmorpg will have the best combat by far.

Ace1234

Yea definitely- there definitely needs to be something more than just damage as a punishment for getting hit- otherwise combat just gets reduced down to how quickly you can get in each others face and swing until someone dies. There should be stagger or hitstun of some kind to allow for repositioning and puting yourself at a situational advantage as a reward for landing your hits. This will give combat more depth and that punchy feel, and will overall just make the hits themselves feel more impactful.

Ace1234

@DarkTides

Ace1234

@LordPax
Nobody mentioned that yet- love the idea though. It definitely adds another element thats important for giving defensive playstyles options, as well as being a good way to help balance different kind of attacks by giving you another option to deal with situations that your weapon won't be as effective as the opponents'- but in a more engaging way than just making it a stat.

Sapiverenus

Something like Monster Hunter World

except the monsters actually try to hit you, there's no "elemental" stuff, it's just you and a weapon trying to kill a monster, your character doesn't have monster-level strength (just superhuman), and there is no superspeed (lots of inertia).

I haven't played monster hunter to be transparent. If I were a modder I'd buy and mod the shit out of it though.

Also monsters are a great idea for Ashes. Who doesn't love Dinos?
Some may hate it but the Earth used to be owned by other creatures LOL

Veeshan

unpredictability (not necessarily RNG though) tbh is probaly my biggest thing when it comes combat it make the world feel less static/alive if that makes sense

pre WoW we had things like roaming high level mobs/Patrolling mobs mobs running away when low which could get help from nearby or mobs shouting for help which cause other mobs in the vacinity to agro too.

This is what made PvE interesting for me but since WoW came and company simiflying/casualising there games all these things got lost and thats why i turned to open world PvP game because the players actions now add this to the game since PvE does not.
I cant play completly PvE games these days cause there to easy if it doesnt have open world pvp to keep things spicy i just cant do it

Funny moment i had in Everquest was when i handed in to many gnoll teeth in which lowered my Qeynos corrupted guard faction to low that they were KOS to me was a highlight of that game funny enough had to sneak around the city advoiding corrupted guards when i needed to visit qeynos :P necro had some funny interaction too where rangers and druid aligned NPC would kill you on sight too and vice versa

Ace1234

@Sapiverenus

Yea for sure-

I like a lot of aspects to Monster Hunter combat.
- one thing I dont really like much in a combat system is when too much of your/the enemy's options are telegraphed. If everything is reactable or easily predictable it kind of takes away from the decision making and counter-play aspects. This is because you automatically can just react and input the right options based on what the enemy does- rather than having to strategically plan ahead of time for what they could potentially do, then choose how you want to counter that, and adapt as needed. If the combat allows for that unpredictability, you can still require that element of spacing and timing that the reactions test, but with the added elements of testing your ability to manage your options, weigh risk/rewards, and make good decisions. If everything is reaction based it also creates a waiting game rather than allowing for more proactive approaches, which isn't as engaging as it could be.

That said, it is very nice to have those reactionary elements sprinkled in to complement the combat, it can definitely add more depth and variation to gameplay. Monster Hunter goes all in with this to really emphasize how important timing is in combat.

I also really like when the mechanics allow for varied ways of beating the enemies, while still keeping your full kit relevant and not limiting you to specific moves and strategies to beat them.

This can happen when they design enemies to make certain skills irrelevant. An example of this is when an enemy can attack very fast while also not getting staggered by anything, which makes almost impossible to use your slower stronger attacks, due to being too slow to make contact without being interupted, and not being able to use your weaker attacks to stagger them and lead into those stronger attacks-
Cool enemy designs account for this by doing things like adding a "break" mechanic, where if you hit them enough with those weaker moves, you can put them in a vulnerable state to use the stronger moves in your kit that you otherwise wouldn't be able to use, which is pretty satisfying.

Its really cool when the enemy design lets you affect the mechanics themselves depending on how you choose to fight it, it rewards creativity, adds extra strategy and immersion, and adds variety to the gameplay. Monster Hunter does a good job at this with being able to cut off limbs, which can mess with the enemy's attacks and behaviors. This is also awesome when they use this mechanic to create conditions in the fight to get certain rewards. This adds that extra risk/reward of going using certain strategies during battle to get better loot drops. This can add ways of getting different loot drops than other people, but tying it into their skill and performance, and giving them specific methods of getting the rewards that they want- while getting rid of that rng aspect of having varied rewards.

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