[Suggestion & Discussion] Hair Growth - Immersion & RP

Hello everyone, Deathwept here! Hope this post finds you well. I wanted to suggest, as well as discuss hair growth in Ashes of Creation!

Let’s start will a question, will there be hair growth in the game? (And what do I mean when asking this?)

In RDR2 this was one of the most immersive elements I’ve seen in a game ever, along with hygiene/visual weathering of the MC.

Especially with the amount of customization that’s available in the creation suite of ashes, I think it would be so cool and immersive to see your hair, be it facial or on your head grow through out your journey as you play.

Imagine being on a long journey, travel, hunt, campaign, or voyage and seeing your hair style and beard style get more exaggerated as it changes in length as you negate to keep it well kept while other, more important tasks are at hand. Picture arriving a port, and your friends as well as strangers can visual tell you’ve been on a long journey. “Man, you’ve seen better days haven’t ya?”

What maybe even harder would be seeing your braids come undone over time or even have them grow naturally along the way as well. But if there’s one team or game I think would be capable of doing this in would intrepid/ashes.

Whether you could trim yourself using a knife, configure** this at a mirror or have a npc that does it for (and further adding a money sink, maintenance to the average character.) I would find this so beloved and immersive.

Personally I believe some of the smallest details, and story crafting happen progressively in the smallest ways to your character. And I would love the team to take advantage of that with this suggestion!

Feel free to share your thoughts and feelings on this topic, and maybe share some stories you’ve created for yourself in games through this type of immersion!

Footnote: while I know many would enjoy this feature, often times a more casual player may say, “what if I just want a static character? I don’t want to have to constantly keep up my characters appearance or waste my time with this type of element.” And fair enough! Some times simplicity needs to take precedent especially since this might require far greater resources and time than I can imagine. But I find it a worthy one! (Also if the system is in place maybe it could be toggle-able? or even regions of the face/head could be toggled to simulate a race or character that might not grow facial hair in the areas that are in the creation suite. Who knows! But I just wanted to add this to also convey I understand the prospective from different players and the dev position if this suggestion/request isn’t viable.

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Comments

Mag7spy

prymortal wrote: »

Immersion features are nice & all. But RP features should be discouraged, Seen first hand in FFXIV & BDO how RP'ers ruin a MMO & the servers ability to do content.

Wait what did BDO do? Didn't even think they had people rping on there.

Kreinster

prymortal wrote: »

FFXIV

RP'ers ruin a MMO

Hah, wow.

Show me on this doll where a cute Mi'qote girl refused to touch you.

Deathwept

prymortal wrote: »

Immersion features are nice & all. But RP features should be discouraged, Seen first hand in FFXIV & BDO how RP'ers ruin a MMO & the servers ability to do content.

Seems forget the whole RPG part that’s attached to MMORPG. I’m not saying the community should have special voices, and LARP. I’d just rather see plants grow back over their respawn timer instead of things popping into the world. That’s the only immersive/rp type elements I’ve suggested.

Sapiverenus

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I'm gonna pass on this... Getting a haircut weekly/biweekly in real life is already a chore. I'd rather have the option to change my hair in-game WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT. Don't want to be forced to keep myself groomed in-game. I just wanna play and enjoy the beautiful game.

Who the hell gets a haircut weekly and why would a quarter inch of hair on your character trigger OCD

Strevi

Deathwept wrote: »

Whether you could trim yourself using a knife, confit fire this at a mirror or have a npc that does it for (and further adding a money sink, maintenance to the average character.) I would find this so beloved and immersive.

I would rather have players help each-other. Helps being social.

TheDarkSorcerer

Sapiverenus wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I'm gonna pass on this... Getting a haircut weekly/biweekly in real life is already a chore. I'd rather have the option to change my hair in-game WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT. Don't want to be forced to keep myself groomed in-game. I just wanna play and enjoy the beautiful game.

Who the hell gets a haircut weekly and why would a quarter inch of hair on your character trigger OCD

I live in Los Angeles, it's pretty normal here to get one weekly/biweekly. Looks plays a big part in this city. Both in your career and personal life.

Aerlana

Immersion : subjectiv.

For you it would probably be more immersiv to have to cut your hair every X hours played.
I don't doubt about it.

For me, and for others, if the game remember us many "IRL chores" ... it would get us "out of the game" so... immersion breaking feature.

Here we speak about game development also. Immersion is part of it... but lets see how impactfull it will be on gameplay... i don't see how it would add a change to the gaming experience (aside the time lost to have to often get to barber)

Sapiverenus

@TheDarkSorcerer
I am guessing your hair grows fast. Short sides too.

A wild fantasy world should have hair growth you can tame if you individually wish to though.
An eighth to a quarter inch a week or whatever matches about average hair growth would be cool.

Deathwept

Aerlana wrote: »

Immersion : subjectiv.

For you it would probably be more immersiv to have to cut your hair every X hours played.
I don't doubt about it.

For me, and for others, if the game remember us many "IRL chores" ... it would get us "out of the game" so... immersion breaking feature.

Here we speak about game development also. Immersion is part of it... but lets see how impactfull it will be on gameplay... i don't see how it would add a change to the gaming experience (aside the time lost to have to often get to barber)

Immersion means to be immersed in the world, making it feel real. You don’t want upkeep or things to mimic real life in a game because it would take you out of it, that’s escapism not immersion.

I’m not suggesting that our characters have to use the restroom every x amount of hours, or that you have to take your pets for walks. Having a hair growth mechanic that I even suggested could be toggle-able being deemed as a chore by quite a few people seems more depressing than anything. Why have armor degradation then? Does it remind us are shoes get worn out and we may have to purchase another pair IRL? If you want to have an immersive world you don’t want to see everyone just going to from objective to objective, seeing them wear the same armor and clothes as the first day you met them as they are a year later in game.

This is why the nodes are game changing and time locked, we’re forced to understand Rome isn’t built in a day and neither are the nodes they change and the things you as they evolve will too. Are mayors a choir? We might have to elect someone, they’ll even have policies! Oh my! That’s more of a real life chore then having my hair growth as I play! At least it may be something that could be toggled in my recommendation.

Aerlana

Deathwept wrote: »

Immersion means to be immersed in the world, making it feel real. You don’t want upkeep or things to mimic real life in a game because it would take you out of it, that’s escapism not immersion.

No, i am not immerse in a world because it feels real. I love good music, it helps me to get immerse in the world... but this is an extremly unrealistic addition to the game ambience.
To have your world feel realist, you have to shut down all music... because there are not angels everywhere in the sky doing music... So lets remove music out of the game ?

With 25 years (even more) playing video game, i know which game offered me the most immersiv experience, and was not the most realist one... but those where the gameplay makes me totally sink into the game, with a good music and sound design. Even graphical comes far after both those 2 points for my immersion...
I was perfeclyt immerse while playing Yoko Taro's game or Hollow knight for example, far from any kind of realism, and was totally immerse on each of my playtime on them.

You ask armor degradation : i don't care if we have it or not, really... but what interest me if there is a durability mechanic, with repair, and how it works. Here i speak about gameplay. (which is a point to have me immerse... a good gameplay get me immerse in the game). The visual degradation ? Just bind it to the durability. if you are at 1% your armor is visually full of hole. and when you repair it, back to 100% it shines again. negativ OR positiv impact on gameplay : 0.
The armor reparation itself will consume part of what people are farming => it has its own impact on economy. I just hope it will be easy to get reparation if you have what you need to do it.
For men the visual degradation is a good additiv detail.

your idea : force you to stop play the game to run to barber shop sometime just to have this haircut, the benefit on gameplay side ? nothing.

You speak about mayor, node, laws, etc... again, they are part of the gameplay, it will make people run away or favor a node to another. try to get the spot to design the node a way fitting more what the mayor and its guilds favor, want.

Prove me that your idea is more than just "have sometime a forced haircut" but a real gameplay impact that will influence how people will interact with the game and i will think about it...
For now, the gameplay your idea promises me would make me remove my head of the game, and so... won't feel totally immerse.
Will it cost enough to be meaningfull in the "goldsink" ? will character get a bonuses the few minutes/hours after the haircut ? Does the not doing the haircut will slowly nerf character in its accuracy ? Is it needed to interact with other player to do it, or get to a specific size of node or anywhere is fine ? Maybe you need a T4+ node if you want to have specific haircut ?

Deathwept

Aerlana wrote: »

Deathwept wrote: »

Immersion means to be immersed in the world, making it feel real. You don’t want upkeep or things to mimic real life in a game because it would take you out of it, that’s escapism not immersion.

No, i am not immerse in a world because it feels real. I love good music, it helps me to get immerse in the world... but this is an extremly unrealistic addition to the game ambience.
To have your world feel realist, you have to shut down all music... because there are not angels everywhere in the sky doing music... So lets remove music out of the game ?

With 25 years (even more) playing video game, i know which game offered me the most immersiv experience, and was not the most realist one... but those where the gameplay makes me totally sink into the game, with a good music and sound design. Even graphical comes far after both those 2 points for my immersion...

You ask armor degradation : i don't care if we have it or not, really... but what interest me if there is a durability mechanic, with repair, and how it works. Here i speak about gameplay. (which is a point to have me immerse... a good gameplay get me immerse in the game). The visual degradation ? Just bind it to the durability. if you are at 1% your armor is visually full of hole. and when you repair it, back to 100% it shines again. negativ OR positiv impact on gameplay : 0.
For men the visual degradation is a good additiv detail.

your idea : force you to stop play the game to run to barber shop sometime just to have this haircut, the benefit on gameplay side ? nothing.

You speak about mayor, node, laws, etc... again, they are part of the gameplay, it will make people run away or favor a node to another. try to get the spot to design the node a way fitting more what the mayor and its guilds favor, want.

Prove me that your idea is more than just "have sometime a forced haircut" but a real gameplay impact that will influence how people will interact with the game and i will think about it...
For now, the gameplay your idea promises me would make me remove my head of the game, and so... won't feel totally immerse.

“seeming to surround the audience, player, etc. so that they feel completely involved in something:” is what I mean’t by immersive.

In my OP I already stated what makes it a gameplay element, it’s the interaction you have with others. They’ll notice you look warn down and unkept from your adventures, there could be other players are the barber shop to share your stories and experiences with. I never suggested it to just be some hassle or form of upkeep.

Also your wrong when saying I proposed forcing someone to stop gameplay to get a hair cut. Did I suggest you get notified that your hair has grown past your default values, and to give you a pop up saying declaring you must stop what your doing and getting a haircut immediately? I did not.

What about those who wouldn’t? That would let it grow, and continue on their adventures? What about my suggestion of a TOGGLE that everyone seems to forget that would prevent it from affecting their gameplay and allow others to enjoy said feature. What about the economy? That’s invisible gameplay that you interact with in every transaction, player maintenance, armor durability, hair cuts, any aesthetics you buy contribute to a healthy economy and money sink within a game.

You say you have interest in armor repair, and this essential is what I posed at what others main deem as “choirs” why have repairs in your version of the game? The damaged armor would prevent you from possibly taking on a quest your heading to because your armor became to damaged along the way, now you have to stop gameplay to go to a blacksmith. In the way you formatted the way you’d incision the game that would be a pointless waste of time with no real gameplay behind it. Just got to the black smith, hand them your armor, pay for repair, and back on the road. Just like a haircut. Except that would actually stop your gameplay where your hair growing would not.

I’ve never said the game should move in a realist direction. I’ve said the world should feel immersive and lived in. I don’t think anyone would enjoy sweeping the floors in the taverns or walking their pets. But I do think many find it impressive and immersive when they feel their actions, and adventures are apart of their story. Like armor getting wet in the rain, or dirty when you’re knocked down, bloodstained from battle, it’s not gameplay but it’s details that matter to many people.

Aerlana

detail.
don't build a game on detail but on gameplay and global design
put detail at the very end, when your game is already done.

Currently, the game is still in early development, so in consider each suggestion to be part of the base global design.
For the "toggle on/off" : most people stopped to the idea itself, which feels close to simulationism, and didnt read long post for sure.
Also, i would point out that we don't even currently know what we will have as hairdress avaible, and so, how the growth of your idea would impact it
And i would even, perfidly defend your idea if it end up the only way to hope to have long hair on my character.

Deathwept wrote: »

“seeming to surround the audience, player, etc. so that they feel completely involved in something:” is what I mean’t by immersive.

Same for me, the feel to be totally involed, drown in the game.
And for me it goes thru the gamedesign/gameplay i have in hand + music.

And i totally respect that for you, it would be detail like the hair growth, or such thing

My point about the immersion being subjectiv is for many topic, people defend their idea with "it would make the game more immersiv".

Deathwept

Aerlana wrote: »

detail.
don't build a game on detail but on gameplay and global design
put detail at the very end, when your game is already done.

Currently, the game is still in early development, so in consider each suggestion to be part of the base global design.
For the "toggle on/off" : most people stopped to the idea itself, which feels close to simulationism, and didnt read long post for sure.
Also, i would point out that we don't even currently know what we will have as hairdress avaible, and so, how the growth of your idea would impact it
And i would even, perfidly defend your idea if it end up the only way to hope to have long hair on my character.

Deathwept wrote: »

“seeming to surround the audience, player, etc. so that they feel completely involved in something:” is what I mean’t by immersive.

Same for me, the feel to be totally involed, drown in the game.
And for me it goes thru the gamedesign/gameplay i have in hand + music.

And i totally respect that for you, it would be detail like the hair growth, or such thing
My point about the immersion being subjectiv is for many topic, people defend their idea with "it would make the game more immersiv".

Respect to you as well. As a former musician I agree that a beautifully scored game absolutely adds to the immersion.

The only reason I’m in defense of my idea, is not because it is mine, but because it has been seemingly dismissed by a few that have commented. I never set a timetable for the idea. Nor do I see it fit during the alpha stages of the game. I see it as a polish feature. Once the games complete and live.

For the games I’ve played that have had it, it’s never been intrusive or interfered with my gameplay. It was just something I noticed over time. But once I experienced it I wish every RPG had that because it was the chefs kiss of an amazing touch/attention to detail.

Every feature in a game isn’t for everyone, and I understand that. But Intrepid has made it clear that the want the users to have the greatest experience across their world they’re building. Steven is a big fan of RPG in MMORPG, and that’s part of the reason I was even passionate enough to make a account for the forums and post this.

Many parts of MMORPG’s I’ve loved the most get overshadowed or completely abandoned in modern games of this size. I’m a skiller at heart. I enjoy crafting, alchemy, farming, and many of the other slice of life content outside of combat. (Which I also enjoy, mostly magic, stealth, daggers, and agility.) But the teams seems to want to tackle what is often left of newer mmos, and that gives me hope. I look forward to the idea of having a small tight guild, having a home that’s customizable, a tavern to meet new people. And seeing them come back from a long journey worn down with longer hair and facial adds to that experience imo, and I know others that take the same game approach as me do too. Even if it’s not heavily represented here in the comments, but that’s why I was reluctant to post it to begin with.

It’s not a make or break for me, but I feel the need to defend the idea because of the principle of game design it derives from. I hope the game is the experience everyone is looking for, for everyone that’s opposed to my idea here in the comments, but also for myself and others like me as well.

Sapiverenus

@Aerlana
Forced to get your haircut. Get real.

Sapiverenus

Music only adds to the Immersion if there are people playing music. Otherwise it adds to Atmosphere or Mood while removing some Immersion.
Of course it's an artificial experience so Immersion is only good up to a certain degree.

Game mechanics can be more immersive because it makes the world more real (or it doesn't because the mechanics are just there for you to do something rather than 'realistic').

Point being it's all a flat artificial experience and hair growth is just a nice feature. OCD Triggering aside, I guess.

Sapiverenus

Dreams and Hypnosis are Immersive as well I guess but I'm not a fan of such Submersion.

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