How should AoC deal with streamers/youtubers uploading DPS parsing videos using 3rd party programs?

Would that be a bannable offense?
I believe that it should. It would promote the message that IS doesnt want people to relly on DPS proofs as tool to decline people from joining a group or guild.

Content creators would have to do without DPS programs.

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Okeydoke

Mother of god

Edit: Before WW4 starts in here I guess I could give my opinion. WW3 still going on in the dps meter thread lol.

I'm not even clear on what the rule is on dps meters because I don't care. But if there's a rule, you have to enforce it. At least to some extent. There's always rules that are enforced strictly, and some that are enforced laxly, so who knows what they'll do.

Just in a general sense, I'm in the camp of enforce rules. This could be a hard one to enforce though.

Azherae

Warning if they're not the type who are popular enough/into the genre enough to know better.

After that (and everyone who should know better, up to Intrepid's judgement based on performance or amount of influence in the server/community), instaban, of course.

Daggial

Sathrago

I believe if they have evidence that you are using 3rd party addons they have the right and should punish the associated account. If news gets around that they will ban you for streaming or making videos showing the addons being used then people will at the very least stop doing that. These streams/videos would normally generate alot of traffic for these 3rd party addons, so cutting them off at the root will make it less likely that they gain any form of significant revenue to continue making the addons.

George_Black

Well the evidence would be the "95k dps" titled videos with the various programs showing the results of the build.

How else would you make a "dps parse/rotation" video?

Noaani

I have a better question for you.

If a someone posts a video of themself running content, and someone else with a combat tracker parses the combat from that video and posts it in another video online, who gets banned?

ariatras

I hear this is a problem in FFXIV. Which I play, but I only do MSQ and Roleplay. As such I am not quite sure what "parsing" is. As far as DPS meters go. I would say that any use of third party tools, that collect and or display data is a no go.

George_Black

Noaani wrote: »

I have a better question for you.

If a someone posts a video of themself running content, and someone else with a combat tracker parses the combat from that video and posts it in another video online, who gets banned?

Nobody?
Unless you think that people are stupid enough not to recognize the well known characters of youtubers/streamers, and that the person doing an elaborate parse voice-over that follows EXACTLY the original videos performance as the dps tracker runs the EXACT same build of the character of the video ISNT the character/account owner.
Are you looking for another meaningless, small win with this ridiculous, forced scenario?

That question wasnt "better". That question was at best an attempt to legitimize the use of 3rd pt programs and the prevention of enforcing the rules due to imaginary scenarios.

Ludullu

I'd probably go with 3 strikes system. Slap on the hand and a warning, a week ban and a permaban. I'd mainly apply this to direct stream clips rather than analytical videos that Noaani mentioned.

People will be analyzing gameplay and make videos about "best builds" based on the tools that they have to analyze the game with. Intrepid should know what kind of information the player is provided with by the game, so if the video shows info that couldn't be gathered from the basic combat log or purely through visuals of the game - I'd suggest copystriking those kinds of videos. And obviously you'd need to tell the players about that rule beforehand.

Tragnar

this topic is interesting because what you are asking for is to give intrepid permission to terminate your account based on the alleged use of third party programs

it is super dumb, but i could live with bans for talking about it ingame, but to get banned for it because i showed/talked about them on streaming platforms/social media is incredibly predatory and i honestly wonder if court would rule in favor for the banned customer

fyi blizzard was/is heavily trying to control player behavior and look where that got them - intrepid should focus on making a great game and not give a flying fuck on how the game is being played

Ludullu

Tragnar wrote: »

I honestly wonder if court would rule in favor for the banned customer

I think that whole thing is resolved by one line in the EULA, no? You just say "we have the right to ban you whenever we want for no reason at all" and you're safe as a company.

George_Black

Tragnar wrote: »

this topic is interesting because what you are asking for is to give intrepid permission to terminate your account based on the alleged use of third party programs

it is super dumb, but i could live with bans for talking about it ingame, but to get banned for it because i showed/talked about them on streaming platforms/social media is incredibly predatory and i honestly wonder if court would rule in favor for the banned customer

fyi blizzard was/is heavily trying to control player behavior and look where that got them - intrepid should focus on making a great game and not give a flying fuck on how the game is being played

Using a third party program is against the rules. Having a video in which a THIRD PARTY PROGRAM SHOWS THE RESULTS OF YOUR BUILD IS a good reason to get you banned.

Spare me the "alleged".
Such an overused word; overused out of fears.

Songcaller

I think it would be difficult to make such a definitive video. Augments might be available on one server and not another server. Not that we know much about augments.

In my mind, not everyone will have access to the same stuff due to the server lives. I think people will isolate streamers with parsers if most don't play with parsers. Much like certain streamers who use aimbots and silhouettes in some videos for FPS. It can destroy a streamers gig.

Strevi

George_Black wrote: »

Would that be a bannable offense?
I believe that it should. It would promote the message that IS doesnt want people to relly on DPS proofs as tool to decline people from joining a group or guild.

Content creators would have do without DPS programs.

If 99% of players use DPS programs then banning their streamers would just cause a backlash from the player base.
If 99% of players don't use DPS programs then streamers would get a backlash from the player base first who also plays the game and knows the IS stance. In this case banning them could be a safe action if IS have strong feelings about them.

I would say that for normal mmos, the deciding moment would be the first days after release, when players and content creators would not know how developers will react.

But here there will also be a long Alpha 2 phase.
Probably big content creators will frown upon using DPS programs against the wish of IS
If some will nevertheless try to use them, IS can take their right to promote the game.
Then the angry streamers and their angry followers will know what to expect at release.

What will happen after release is harder to predict than the release date itself.

ariatras

Strevi wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Would that be a bannable offense?
I believe that it should. It would promote the message that IS doesnt want people to relly on DPS proofs as tool to decline people from joining a group or guild.

Content creators would have do without DPS programs.

If 99% of players use DPS programs then banning their streamers would just cause a backlash from the player base.
If 99% of players don't use DPS programs then streamers would get a backlash from the player base first who also plays the game and knows the IS stance. In this case banning them could be a safe action if IS have strong feelings about them.

I would say that for normal mmos, the deciding moment would be the first days after release, when players and content creators would not know how developers will react.

But here there will also be a long Alpha 2 phase.
Probably big content creators will frown upon using DPS programs against the wish of IS
If some will nevertheless try to use them, IS can take their right to promote the game.
Then the angry streamers and their angry followers will know what to expect at release.

What will happen after release is harder to predict than the release date itself.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am getting a very strong impression that they have to tiptoe around content creators. Once the game is released. The big ones, let's say Asmongold will play it for a while, as will his braindead following, and then he'll return to more familiar things. Most if not all big streamers don't play a single game anymore. And so their followers will get upset no matter what.

If add-ons are not allowed, and third party programs are not allowed. Then simply accept you don't have a dps meter.
If you want to risk it, be my guest. But don't knowingly break the rules and then cry about a ban.
Especially if it has to inject. Like a bot for example, or even FFXIV's bardplayer

Mag7spy

George_Black wrote: »

Tragnar wrote: »

this topic is interesting because what you are asking for is to give intrepid permission to terminate your account based on the alleged use of third party programs

it is super dumb, but i could live with bans for talking about it ingame, but to get banned for it because i showed/talked about them on streaming platforms/social media is incredibly predatory and i honestly wonder if court would rule in favor for the banned customer

fyi blizzard was/is heavily trying to control player behavior and look where that got them - intrepid should focus on making a great game and not give a flying fuck on how the game is being played

Using a third party program is against the rules. Having a video in which a THIRD PARTY PROGRAM SHOWS THE RESULTS OF YOUR BUILD IS a good reason to get you banned.

Spare me the "alleged".
Such an overused word; overused out of fears.

Tragnar is a troll that makes some stupid stuff up, I wouldnt take him that seriously.

Strevi

Meanwhile Bungie vs cheater will set precedents

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/09/no-minors-cant-just-opt-out-of-destiny-2s-anti-cheating-provisions/

Noaani

George_Black wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I have a better question for you.

If a someone posts a video of themself running content, and someone else with a combat tracker parses the combat from that video and posts it in another video online, who gets banned?

Nobody?

So, you are advocating for a game where I can parse your combat, but you cant parse your own? Some streamer posts a video, then someone else comes along with a tracker to create/post that "95k DPS" video of that streamer, but the streamer cant post it them self.

How about instead of complaining about people that appreciate objective data, we instead all sit down and realize how fucking stupid that would be as a situation.

George_Black wrote: »

Tragnar wrote: »

this topic is interesting because what you are asking for is to give intrepid permission to terminate your account based on the alleged use of third party programs

it is super dumb, but i could live with bans for talking about it ingame, but to get banned for it because i showed/talked about them on streaming platforms/social media is incredibly predatory and i honestly wonder if court would rule in favor for the banned customer

fyi blizzard was/is heavily trying to control player behavior and look where that got them - intrepid should focus on making a great game and not give a flying fuck on how the game is being played

Using a third party program is against the rules.

Windows is a third party program. If third party programs were against the rules as a blanket statement, you wouldn't be able to run the game while also running Windows.

The blanket statement of "third party programs are against the rules" is just outright incorrect.

I challenge you to look up the ToS of any live MMO and do a simple word search for 'third party'. Almost without exception, the only mention of third party is in relation to the developer using third party software in the applicable game, and third party payment processing.

I cant speak for others here, but I will not let your ignorance of this ruin my gameplay.

George_Black

Your scenario doesnt make sense, but you dont even have that little of a brain power to see it.

You are saying that person A is going to create "content" in a video, not even rotation DPS parsing, and then person B is going to use a DPS tracker over persons A video and accuratly measure persons A potential in a open world PvP mmo, in which having high DPS btw doesnt amount to shit if you cant handle yourself in an unscripted situation, unlike eso, ff14, wow raiding.
What kind of stupid analysis will person B conduct from persons A video, the video that isnt relevant to DPS parsing?
Meaaure how quickly person A plays AoC? How quickly they RP, gather stones? Using a timer to count down how quickly mobs die? Who gives a F?
Would person A make a video about DPS without using a tracker, only for him to say to person B "hey are you rdy with your tracker? Ok here is my clip, and here is a stupid generic gangsta wannabe track to have on the background. Let's get them views."
What a pointless and elaborate scenario you came up with. A scenario which wont amount to anything, let alone show a builds potential.
How is that relevant to breaking the rules and receiving a ban is beyond me. Only you can stretch that connection.

Get the hell out of here with the "windows" crap.

George_Black

I trully hope that AoC will be strict in combating dps meters. No more youtube copy pasting. Ppl will have to actually play the game.
No more pointless
-Show me your 95k dps before I invite you in the guild/group
-Show you what? My open world build, aimed to help me deal with aggressive players AND tough mobs?

People will have to treat other players as real human beings, and by playing together they will measure each others potential.

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