Solvryn wrote: » DarkTides wrote: » What Action Combat games do you guys consider to be good? Link or reference the game. Personally, not one game out there has been able to properly provide a good action combat experience, so it is difficult for me to understand why people want Action Combat as the main form of a combat experience, when it's not once been done properly. Action Combat games always get messed up. I look at the genre for the pieces that make up the machine. I like the way Conquerors Blade has an importance on precision, combat geometry, map utilization in combination with intelligent positioning. I liked Darkfall for its gap in the skill floor and the skill ceiling, there was much to learn and many aspects of the game to master. It too had an importance in precision, as well has timing. And I prefer those things over a tacticle-kinesthetic memorization of a sequence. Player efficacy and control is more rewarding to me than rng.
DarkTides wrote: » What Action Combat games do you guys consider to be good? Link or reference the game. Personally, not one game out there has been able to properly provide a good action combat experience, so it is difficult for me to understand why people want Action Combat as the main form of a combat experience, when it's not once been done properly. Action Combat games always get messed up.
BlackBrony wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed. No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs. Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off? If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed.
Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed. No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs.
BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid
Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed. No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs. Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off? If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed. You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them.
DarkTides wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed. No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs. Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off? If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed. You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them. It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts.
DarkTides wrote: » I'm personally wondering what Solvryn wrote: » DarkTides wrote: » What Action Combat games do you guys consider to be good? Link or reference the game. Personally, not one game out there has been able to properly provide a good action combat experience, so it is difficult for me to understand why people want Action Combat as the main form of a combat experience, when it's not once been done properly. Action Combat games always get messed up. I look at the genre for the pieces that make up the machine. I like the way Conquerors Blade has an importance on precision, combat geometry, map utilization in combination with intelligent positioning. I liked Darkfall for its gap in the skill floor and the skill ceiling, there was much to learn and many aspects of the game to master. It too had an importance in precision, as well has timing. And I prefer those things over a tacticle-kinesthetic memorization of a sequence. Player efficacy and control is more rewarding to me than rng. It is difficult to find everything that a player personally would enjoy, all found in a single game. That can be said for many types of games...obviously... I have a general idea of what Id prefer to have in an action combat game, however, Action combat games appear to have the most difficulty finding the right combination, and suffers from a lack of innovation.
Mag7spy wrote: » DarkTides wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed. No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs. Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off? If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed. You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them. It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts. It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals.
Mag7spy wrote: » I will start witht he most basic example I can do and we can go from there. What is more fun 1. A game where you can press a key and it causes your character to automatically walk up to your target and attack to use your skill. (requiring nothing of you but to press the button) 2. You walk you walk up to the target and press your ability and attempt to hit the target which it can attempt to move away from your attack If someone preferred option one there isn't much else for me to say so id just leave it at that. If option 2 I'd say because the person feels it is more immersed and requires effort over the game playing for you. So the next question would be why is that more enjoy able, and how to incorporate that into a mmorpg. With a history of that being the came with the genre over the years.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » DarkTides wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed. No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs. Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off? If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed. You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them. It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts. It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals. Why not? I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way. I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense?
SirChancelot wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » DarkTides wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed. No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs. Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off? If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed. You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them. It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts. It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals. Why not? I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way. I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense? Honestly Reading through this thread had me wondering how the action vs tab crowds break down by primary role they play. I have a feeling it's people that main DPS that are more into action combat...
Azherae wrote: » SirChancelot wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » DarkTides wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed. No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs. Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off? If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed. You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them. It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts. It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals. Why not? I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way. I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense? Honestly Reading through this thread had me wondering how the action vs tab crowds break down by primary role they play. I have a feeling it's people that main DPS that are more into action combat... I don't know if I'm an Outlier or not, but 'Action Combat' Healer is my preference. I tend to heal more often than I DPS (usually Rogue) or tank (just one game really) in games that 'Respect the Role Trinity'. I know a few others as well, but I hang out with MOBA players. Then again I don't believe in 'Action', 'Tab' or even 'Hybrid'. The little details make up much more of the gameplay than any of those things for me. (before anyone derails, I don't currently like the implementation Ashes has chosen, but they promised Tab Target, so it must be this way, I'll settle for balance on Rangers' 'combo ender shot' not helping them with CC)
pyreal wrote: » Azherae wrote: » SirChancelot wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » DarkTides wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed. No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs. Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off? If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed. You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them. It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts. It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals. Why not? I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way. I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense? Honestly Reading through this thread had me wondering how the action vs tab crowds break down by primary role they play. I have a feeling it's people that main DPS that are more into action combat... I don't know if I'm an Outlier or not, but 'Action Combat' Healer is my preference. I tend to heal more often than I DPS (usually Rogue) or tank (just one game really) in games that 'Respect the Role Trinity'. I know a few others as well, but I hang out with MOBA players. Then again I don't believe in 'Action', 'Tab' or even 'Hybrid'. The little details make up much more of the gameplay than any of those things for me. (before anyone derails, I don't currently like the implementation Ashes has chosen, but they promised Tab Target, so it must be this way, I'll settle for balance on Rangers' 'combo ender shot' not helping them with CC) What game have you played as heals with action combat? Was it NW? I've seen videos of NW pvp... it was spamming AOE heals or AOE dps of one form or another. I don't even have to say 'boiled down to'... its ALL it was. NW action combat gives this result: 'spam AoEs' Its LESS engaging than tab, less thought goes into it, less strategy. 'Aim for biggest group and mash aoe button'.
SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I will start witht he most basic example I can do and we can go from there. What is more fun 1. A game where you can press a key and it causes your character to automatically walk up to your target and attack to use your skill. (requiring nothing of you but to press the button) 2. You walk you walk up to the target and press your ability and attempt to hit the target which it can attempt to move away from your attack If someone preferred option one there isn't much else for me to say so id just leave it at that. If option 2 I'd say because the person feels it is more immersed and requires effort over the game playing for you. So the next question would be why is that more enjoy able, and how to incorporate that into a mmorpg. With a history of that being the came with the genre over the years. That's a really shallow comparison my dude.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » DarkTides wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Imagine a full action combat game. Tank: Why didn't you heal me? Healer: you moved! Tank: you suck End of raid There is no reason why that would happen, there is no reason to make healing more difficult and plenty of ways to heal who needs to be healed. No one advocating for action combat is saying you can't have any targeted heals or buffs. Then how do healers show off their skills? Why it's only DPS and tanks (maybe, you're already changing the rules for healers) allowed to show off? If the game is aimed, then everythinig should be aimed. You are missing the point of action combat. Though ill chalk it up to you are trolling and don't play action games and get trashed in them. It's possible he's calling out hypocrisy. Players want action combat, but when it comes to healing, they don't. Maybe? If so, that is likely not directed at all action combat enthusiasts. It is just a stupid point, you don't make cooperative elements harder in a mmorpg for targeted buffs and heals. Why not? I honestly dont see a reason why FPS or tanking should be made a specific way, but cooperative elements also shouldnt be made that way. I mean, if aiming and such is fun, why limit it to offense? I can't believe i need to break this down.... The point of aiming and players being able to dodge is to increase the skill level by making it more difficult for a enemy to hit you... The same rules do not apply when you are talking about support skills because that is not a competitive element to support your team. The work around it so simply do aoe buffs and heals to bypass it and make it easier than working in system that are more smart and automatic. Which also would make things easier. So cooperate buffs, heals and such though some action ones can be fine there is nothing wrong with targeted. Giant difference between competitive and cooperative elements you don't make it easier to get free attacks on an opponent, you don't make it more difficult to support your team. To try to use a childish argument on action to make support harder in order to hope it creates frustration or a more difficult system to balance out the difficulty is again a childish and silly comparison.
Mag7spy wrote: » Giant difference between competitive and cooperative elements you don't make it easier to get free attacks on an opponent, you don't make it more difficult to support your team.
Azherae wrote: » I don't know if I'm an Outlier or not, but 'Action Combat' Healer is my preference.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Giant difference between competitive and cooperative elements you don't make it easier to get free attacks on an opponent, you don't make it more difficult to support your team. This doesnt make any sense at all. Either aiming is fun, or it isn't. Either aiming is a great way to add "skill" or "challenge", or it isn't. These things aren't and can't be situational based on if you are playing offense or defense. If your healer can't aim in an action combat game, you should all fail. It isnt a childish argument at all, as you have suggested. It is a perfectly valid and reasonable point. Either aiming is good, or aiming is not good.
Either aiming is fun, or it isn't.
Either aiming is a great way to add "skill" or "challenge", or it isn't.
If your healer can't aim in an action combat game, you should all fail.
It isnt a childish argument at all, as you have suggested. It is a perfectly valid and reasonable point.
Either aiming is good, or aiming is not good.
