SongRune wrote: » Moovie wrote: » Watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7RlhjaOmSE , made a quick visualization, i think this is an important change about the flagging system which ties into this topic. I have now watched the video. There's some problems here. 1. If we have two greens (anyone who isn't red and hasn't hit a player in the last 90 seconds), and they want to have a fully agreed-upon and willing duel... Both flag so they can hit each other. Green1 hits Green2. Green1 is now Purple1. Green2 fights back and becomes... Green2. The only person 'allowed' to win a duel they both agreed to is Green2. There's no fully willing and intentional (on both sides) PvP configuration that doesn't guarantee corruption for one of the participants should they win. 2. The presenter claims you are punished for fighting back. You are not. - Fighting back means you lose less stuff if you die. (Setting aside that you might win.) - Not punishing your attacker is not a punishment to you. You are already dead. You gain nothing and lose nothing based on whether your attacker turns red or not. The stated purpose of the corruption system is to encourage PvP, encourage people fighting back, and discourage only serial ganking. That's why you are required to pay a price (higher green death penalties) to put a bounty on your attacker's head. You're only intended to do this if they're enough of a troublemaker that it's worth that to you.
Moovie wrote: » Watched this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7RlhjaOmSE , made a quick visualization, i think this is an important change about the flagging system which ties into this topic.
Axonen wrote: » Please take a short look at it. It may be a little better solution for the flagging system :v: What do you think?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7RlhjaOmSE&ab_channel=Surma
itsRyanB wrote: » Go play new world and free farm to your pockets are filled. I don’t understand why anyone even suggests changing of a system that has not even been tested yet. The game is PvX, stop trying to change it.
Rhorden wrote: » itsRyanB wrote: » Go play new world and free farm to your pockets are filled. I don’t understand why anyone even suggests changing of a system that has not even been tested yet. The game is PvX, stop trying to change it. I don't think it's about changing an undeveloped system. It's more of reaching the best theory before implementation to hopefully need less time time in R&D to reach the intended goal. All ideas are good to put forward as it could lead to a solution or better idea to this or a different problem the devs have that we know nothing about.
Rhorden wrote: » I like the concept of this system but I don't think it is on the right track. There are issues with this that don't make sense. Before anyone reads this and assumes I'm complaining about getting ganked just know I plan on being the most hated ganker on my server. I bring this up for a better and more fair system. If they choose to stick with this then good for me.Group Ganking 1) Status Penalty 2) Loot Penalty
Rhorden wrote: » 3A) Why should I not gank people? Here's what I see happening, and I will do this unless something changes. I will roll with couple of my friends. We come across anyone, literally anyone because why not, and I attack with friend 1 joining in. This guy has no chance of surviving. He fights back to lose less loot but dies anyways. Friend 2, not involved in the fight, picks up said loot. We move on and continue this process until I die with friend 1 getting the kill. Friend 2 picks up all the loot. I get back, pick up my loot that has been guarded for me so I lose nothing. I am now green, or less red, and we carry on. Or we can farm deaths from mobs , maybe each other, while we guard items and now we are all good to go. 3B) I tag people hoping they fight back. If they do friends 1 and 2 jump in and kill the guy. We aren't in a group so they stay purple. I am naked except for a crap weapon. Got nothing to lose.
Rhorden wrote: » Solo Ganking I'm underpowered, or just not good at pvp. I see someone gathering and I ignore it until I see that person fighting a mob. I switch to tab target to ensure my attacks hit only the person and unload on him for the kill. Pick up loot. I suspect this will be the most common type of killing.
Rhorden wrote: » I will have a guy that is dedicated to be corrupted. Wont be geared, wont worry about clearing corruption. The sole purpose of this guy is to start a fight and get the target to engage therefor turning him purple. Once that happens my teammates come in and finish the kill. If he doesn't engage then it's a long slow fight to kill him. Either way he drops loot and we move to the next unlucky soul or run across the same guy again.
Rhorden wrote: » One thing I have learned to be true over the years is when you don't ferret out all the ways something can be exploited, someone will take advantage of it. These "little group of PKer friends." in BFA was typically 15 to 20 people and sometimes over 30. Will that happen in AoC? Don't know. Guess it depends on if there's enough motivation. "Being in the mood to farm people for no reason at all" was usually a good enough motivator for my pvp guilds. I see flaws with this system on a large scale We don't have to agree but don't be quick to assume something can't happen just because you don't think it can. Go look at the start of any game and take note of all the loop holes found.
Rhorden wrote: » I like the concept of this system but I don't think it is on the right track. There are issues with this that don't make sense. Before anyone reads this and assumes I'm complaining about getting ganked just know I plan on being the most hated ganker on my server. I bring this up for a better and more fair system. If they choose to stick with this then good for me.Group Ganking 1) Status Penalty - Why should the green player be penalized at all? They didn't initiate the combat. They aren't being the d-bag. I don't think green should turn to purple at all. They are being penalized for literally doing nothing wrong or aggressive. Yet they turn purple or die and lose loot. There is ABSOLUTELY no upside for the green player. I don't feel green should ever turn purple or red if they aren't the aggressor. 2) Loot Penalty - I understand they want to encourage fighting but it starts off with a penalty against the nonaggressor. What? If you fight back you only lose a quarter of your loot. If you don't fight back you lose half. HALF? You decide not to contribute to the fight so you take a larger penalty? Something is very wrong with this. I know the attacker is putting his loot on the line but the attacker is most likely going to wait for the right opportunity and unload with a burst putting the fight heavily in his favor. 3A) Why should I not gank people? Here's what I see happening, and I will do this unless something changes. I will roll with couple of my friends. We come across anyone, literally anyone because why not, and I attack with friend 1 joining in. This guy has no chance of surviving. He fights back to lose less loot but dies anyways. Friend 2, not involved in the fight, picks up said loot. We move on and continue this process until I die with friend 1 getting the kill. Friend 2 picks up all the loot. I get back, pick up my loot that has been guarded for me so I lose nothing. I am now green, or less red, and we carry on. Or we can farm deaths from mobs , maybe each other, while we guard items and now we are all good to go. 3B) I tag people hoping they fight back. If they do friends 1 and 2 jump in and kill the guy. We aren't in a group so they stay purple. I am naked except for a crap weapon. Got nothing to lose.Solo Ganking I'm underpowered, or just not good at pvp. I see someone gathering and I ignore it until I see that person fighting a mob. I switch to tab target to ensure my attacks hit only the person and unload on him for the kill. Pick up loot. I suspect this will be the most common type of killing. Are there any safeguards in place for people carrying high quantities of items if they are killed? I use to farm around 2k-3k herbs on a farming run. To lose even a quarter of that would encourage ganking on anyone suspected of farming. Maybe there are things I have missed about how this system is going to work but, at the moment, it seems pretty straight forward with a few work arounds that encourage killing.
Rhorden wrote: » @NiKr One thing I have learned to be true over the years is when you don't ferret out all the ways something can be exploited, someone will take advantage of it. These "little group of PKer friends." in BFA was typically 15 to 20 people and sometimes over 30. Will that happen in AoC? Don't know. Guess it depends on if there's enough motivation. "Being in the mood to farm people for no reason at all" was usually a good enough motivator for my pvp guilds. I see flaws with this system on a large scale We don't have to agree but don't be quick to assume something can't happen just because you don't think it can. Go look at the start of any game and take note of all the loop holes found.
Depraved wrote: » Rhorden wrote: » @NiKr One thing I have learned to be true over the years is when you don't ferret out all the ways something can be exploited, someone will take advantage of it. These "little group of PKer friends." in BFA was typically 15 to 20 people and sometimes over 30. Will that happen in AoC? Don't know. Guess it depends on if there's enough motivation. "Being in the mood to farm people for no reason at all" was usually a good enough motivator for my pvp guilds. I see flaws with this system on a large scale We don't have to agree but don't be quick to assume something can't happen just because you don't think it can. Go look at the start of any game and take note of all the loop holes found. wow uses a faction system, and fighting the other faction is part of the game story and lore. is there any penalty in wow for killing someone from the other faction?
Rhorden wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Rhorden wrote: » @NiKr One thing I have learned to be true over the years is when you don't ferret out all the ways something can be exploited, someone will take advantage of it. These "little group of PKer friends." in BFA was typically 15 to 20 people and sometimes over 30. Will that happen in AoC? Don't know. Guess it depends on if there's enough motivation. "Being in the mood to farm people for no reason at all" was usually a good enough motivator for my pvp guilds. I see flaws with this system on a large scale We don't have to agree but don't be quick to assume something can't happen just because you don't think it can. Go look at the start of any game and take note of all the loop holes found. wow uses a faction system, and fighting the other faction is part of the game story and lore. is there any penalty in wow for killing someone from the other faction? Umm, no. Not sure what you are getting at.
Depraved wrote: » Rhorden wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Rhorden wrote: » @NiKr One thing I have learned to be true over the years is when you don't ferret out all the ways something can be exploited, someone will take advantage of it. These "little group of PKer friends." in BFA was typically 15 to 20 people and sometimes over 30. Will that happen in AoC? Don't know. Guess it depends on if there's enough motivation. "Being in the mood to farm people for no reason at all" was usually a good enough motivator for my pvp guilds. I see flaws with this system on a large scale We don't have to agree but don't be quick to assume something can't happen just because you don't think it can. Go look at the start of any game and take note of all the loop holes found. wow uses a faction system, and fighting the other faction is part of the game story and lore. is there any penalty in wow for killing someone from the other faction? Umm, no. Not sure what you are getting at. exactly.
Rhorden wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Rhorden wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Rhorden wrote: » @NiKr One thing I have learned to be true over the years is when you don't ferret out all the ways something can be exploited, someone will take advantage of it. These "little group of PKer friends." in BFA was typically 15 to 20 people and sometimes over 30. Will that happen in AoC? Don't know. Guess it depends on if there's enough motivation. "Being in the mood to farm people for no reason at all" was usually a good enough motivator for my pvp guilds. I see flaws with this system on a large scale We don't have to agree but don't be quick to assume something can't happen just because you don't think it can. Go look at the start of any game and take note of all the loop holes found. wow uses a faction system, and fighting the other faction is part of the game story and lore. is there any penalty in wow for killing someone from the other faction? Umm, no. Not sure what you are getting at. exactly. If you're trying to make a point and the meaning doesn't land then what was the point of talking in the first place if you aren't willing to explain it?
