Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » As i said action in mmorpg is young with plenty of room to grow as it has been doing quickly. Not seeing something doesn't change the fact of my point, if you turn like 75% of the elements in a tab game to action you have more depth and a much higher skill ceiling. Not really about if you have seen it or not, mechanically that is just how it would work. Weve been over this in the past as well. I dont disagree with you, you are just missing the actual point. As I have said to you before - there are already tab target games (or, specifically, encounters) where there is as much going on as any player is able to handle. You can not add more to that. So, if developers do add action combat elements to a tab game, sure, it could add a higher skill ceiling to the combat system of the game. However, they would then need to remove depth from the content on which that content is used on. And game genre can just add and add more and more stuff and overload what players need to do. That isnt good game design though. Good game design gives players a specific amount they need to do or to focus on, and no more. So if you take a game that is already doing that (top end tab target encounters, in this case), and you then add action combat elements, you have suddenly gone over what you can ask players to do, and have slipped in to bad game design. Now, I'm not saying a game cant add action elements to tab target games. In fact, that is exactly what Archeage did. However, Archage also had dead boring encounters - even the instanced ones. Something I ak wondering if you are grasping is that with an action game, you are playing the combat system and the encounter or enemy player is simply a tool to use your combat system on. With a tab target game you are playing the encounter or enemy player, and the combat system is simply a tool to do that with.
Mag7spy wrote: » As i said action in mmorpg is young with plenty of room to grow as it has been doing quickly. Not seeing something doesn't change the fact of my point, if you turn like 75% of the elements in a tab game to action you have more depth and a much higher skill ceiling. Not really about if you have seen it or not, mechanically that is just how it would work.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » As i said action in mmorpg is young with plenty of room to grow as it has been doing quickly. Not seeing something doesn't change the fact of my point, if you turn like 75% of the elements in a tab game to action you have more depth and a much higher skill ceiling. Not really about if you have seen it or not, mechanically that is just how it would work. Weve been over this in the past as well. I dont disagree with you, you are just missing the actual point. As I have said to you before - there are already tab target games (or, specifically, encounters) where there is as much going on as any player is able to handle. You can not add more to that. So, if developers do add action combat elements to a tab game, sure, it could add a higher skill ceiling to the combat system of the game. However, they would then need to remove depth from the content on which that content is used on. And game genre can just add and add more and more stuff and overload what players need to do. That isnt good game design though. Good game design gives players a specific amount they need to do or to focus on, and no more. So if you take a game that is already doing that (top end tab target encounters, in this case), and you then add action combat elements, you have suddenly gone over what you can ask players to do, and have slipped in to bad game design. Now, I'm not saying a game cant add action elements to tab target games. In fact, that is exactly what Archeage did. However, Archage also had dead boring encounters - even the instanced ones. Something I ak wondering if you are grasping is that with an action game, you are playing the combat system and the encounter or enemy player is simply a tool to use your combat system on. With a tab target game you are playing the encounter or enemy player, and the combat system is simply a tool to do that with. Don't agree player has too much to worry about, unless you are going to provide an example this won't get anywhere. If content is hard let it be hard, and let people working together and communicating as well as skill help overcome it. People using a tracker to assist them means on a technical level there is too much for them to understand to begin with. Meaning action elements are not going to take away from that level of depth, as their skill and execution is going it be its own thing to begin with. Lets say for some reason action elements did take away (which i don't believe int he slightest) and the developers made the game easier by reducing as much need for a tracker. But instead putting those skill elements in the actual combat of the raid. The difficulty in the end would be the same and players would have plenty to worry about in the raid with multiple levels of different kinds of gameplay from the mmorpg skills (this is not exclusive to tab) and the action elements of how those skills work and all the effects and min maxing.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » As i said action in mmorpg is young with plenty of room to grow as it has been doing quickly. Not seeing something doesn't change the fact of my point, if you turn like 75% of the elements in a tab game to action you have more depth and a much higher skill ceiling. Not really about if you have seen it or not, mechanically that is just how it would work. Weve been over this in the past as well. I dont disagree with you, you are just missing the actual point. As I have said to you before - there are already tab target games (or, specifically, encounters) where there is as much going on as any player is able to handle. You can not add more to that. So, if developers do add action combat elements to a tab game, sure, it could add a higher skill ceiling to the combat system of the game. However, they would then need to remove depth from the content on which that content is used on. And game genre can just add and add more and more stuff and overload what players need to do. That isnt good game design though. Good game design gives players a specific amount they need to do or to focus on, and no more. So if you take a game that is already doing that (top end tab target encounters, in this case), and you then add action combat elements, you have suddenly gone over what you can ask players to do, and have slipped in to bad game design. Now, I'm not saying a game cant add action elements to tab target games. In fact, that is exactly what Archeage did. However, Archage also had dead boring encounters - even the instanced ones. Something I ak wondering if you are grasping is that with an action game, you are playing the combat system and the encounter or enemy player is simply a tool to use your combat system on. With a tab target game you are playing the encounter or enemy player, and the combat system is simply a tool to do that with. Don't agree player has too much to worry about, unless you are going to provide an example this won't get anywhere. If content is hard let it be hard, and let people working together and communicating as well as skill help overcome it. People using a tracker to assist them means on a technical level there is too much for them to understand to begin with. Meaning action elements are not going to take away from that level of depth, as their skill and execution is going it be its own thing to begin with. Lets say for some reason action elements did take away (which i don't believe int he slightest) and the developers made the game easier by reducing as much need for a tracker. But instead putting those skill elements in the actual combat of the raid. The difficulty in the end would be the same and players would have plenty to worry about in the raid with multiple levels of different kinds of gameplay from the mmorpg skills (this is not exclusive to tab) and the action elements of how those skills work and all the effects and min maxing. Physical skills are muscle-memory based and can be autopiloted, though, that's why this comes up. I've zoned out playing footsies in SFV with other PLAYERS. Not 'weak' players, either, it's just a thing the mind learns how to do. I've had other top players 'fight me effectively while chatting with friends and occasionally looking away from the screen'. These things are not hard enough for someone like Noaani, so from THAT side it is 'you're taking complexity and difficulty out of the game and replacing it with something I don't need to consciously think about, to do'.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » As i said action in mmorpg is young with plenty of room to grow as it has been doing quickly. Not seeing something doesn't change the fact of my point, if you turn like 75% of the elements in a tab game to action you have more depth and a much higher skill ceiling. Not really about if you have seen it or not, mechanically that is just how it would work. Weve been over this in the past as well. I dont disagree with you, you are just missing the actual point. As I have said to you before - there are already tab target games (or, specifically, encounters) where there is as much going on as any player is able to handle. You can not add more to that. So, if developers do add action combat elements to a tab game, sure, it could add a higher skill ceiling to the combat system of the game. However, they would then need to remove depth from the content on which that content is used on. And game genre can just add and add more and more stuff and overload what players need to do. That isnt good game design though. Good game design gives players a specific amount they need to do or to focus on, and no more. So if you take a game that is already doing that (top end tab target encounters, in this case), and you then add action combat elements, you have suddenly gone over what you can ask players to do, and have slipped in to bad game design. Now, I'm not saying a game cant add action elements to tab target games. In fact, that is exactly what Archeage did. However, Archage also had dead boring encounters - even the instanced ones. Something I ak wondering if you are grasping is that with an action game, you are playing the combat system and the encounter or enemy player is simply a tool to use your combat system on. With a tab target game you are playing the encounter or enemy player, and the combat system is simply a tool to do that with. Don't agree player has too much to worry about, unless you are going to provide an example this won't get anywhere. If content is hard let it be hard, and let people working together and communicating as well as skill help overcome it. People using a tracker to assist them means on a technical level there is too much for them to understand to begin with. Meaning action elements are not going to take away from that level of depth, as their skill and execution is going it be its own thing to begin with. Lets say for some reason action elements did take away (which i don't believe int he slightest) and the developers made the game easier by reducing as much need for a tracker. But instead putting those skill elements in the actual combat of the raid. The difficulty in the end would be the same and players would have plenty to worry about in the raid with multiple levels of different kinds of gameplay from the mmorpg skills (this is not exclusive to tab) and the action elements of how those skills work and all the effects and min maxing. Physical skills are muscle-memory based and can be autopiloted, though, that's why this comes up. I've zoned out playing footsies in SFV with other PLAYERS. Not 'weak' players, either, it's just a thing the mind learns how to do. I've had other top players 'fight me effectively while chatting with friends and occasionally looking away from the screen'. These things are not hard enough for someone like Noaani, so from THAT side it is 'you're taking complexity and difficulty out of the game and replacing it with something I don't need to consciously think about, to do'. Sounds like a skill thing, nor does it mean you need to try hard all the time. You being zoned out and fighting someone who is far below your level will be crushed. Same way someone that isn't the best zoning out and fighting someone below their level will lose as well do to a skill difference If you are zoning out in a fight it is pretty clear that person isn't really trying. Also i think its a bit early to jump the gun on saying Noaani can reach a level in a fighting game and zone out against good players. Not everyone reaches high skill levels. Same thing can be said of a tab game where it is much easier to zone out since you know exactly what rotations to do and movements to do as you are use to the content. Either way zoning out isn't a good comparison of difficulty of content, that can be a case for almost anything when you know exactly what to do and what to read. That isn't going to happen if you are in a competitive fight.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » As i said action in mmorpg is young with plenty of room to grow as it has been doing quickly. Not seeing something doesn't change the fact of my point, if you turn like 75% of the elements in a tab game to action you have more depth and a much higher skill ceiling. Not really about if you have seen it or not, mechanically that is just how it would work. Weve been over this in the past as well. I dont disagree with you, you are just missing the actual point. As I have said to you before - there are already tab target games (or, specifically, encounters) where there is as much going on as any player is able to handle. You can not add more to that. So, if developers do add action combat elements to a tab game, sure, it could add a higher skill ceiling to the combat system of the game. However, they would then need to remove depth from the content on which that content is used on. And game genre can just add and add more and more stuff and overload what players need to do. That isnt good game design though. Good game design gives players a specific amount they need to do or to focus on, and no more. So if you take a game that is already doing that (top end tab target encounters, in this case), and you then add action combat elements, you have suddenly gone over what you can ask players to do, and have slipped in to bad game design. Now, I'm not saying a game cant add action elements to tab target games. In fact, that is exactly what Archeage did. However, Archage also had dead boring encounters - even the instanced ones. Something I ak wondering if you are grasping is that with an action game, you are playing the combat system and the encounter or enemy player is simply a tool to use your combat system on. With a tab target game you are playing the encounter or enemy player, and the combat system is simply a tool to do that with. Don't agree player has too much to worry about, unless you are going to provide an example this won't get anywhere. If content is hard let it be hard, and let people working together and communicating as well as skill help overcome it. People using a tracker to assist them means on a technical level there is too much for them to understand to begin with. Meaning action elements are not going to take away from that level of depth, as their skill and execution is going it be its own thing to begin with. Lets say for some reason action elements did take away (which i don't believe int he slightest) and the developers made the game easier by reducing as much need for a tracker. But instead putting those skill elements in the actual combat of the raid. The difficulty in the end would be the same and players would have plenty to worry about in the raid with multiple levels of different kinds of gameplay from the mmorpg skills (this is not exclusive to tab) and the action elements of how those skills work and all the effects and min maxing. Physical skills are muscle-memory based and can be autopiloted, though, that's why this comes up. I've zoned out playing footsies in SFV with other PLAYERS. Not 'weak' players, either, it's just a thing the mind learns how to do. I've had other top players 'fight me effectively while chatting with friends and occasionally looking away from the screen'. These things are not hard enough for someone like Noaani, so from THAT side it is 'you're taking complexity and difficulty out of the game and replacing it with something I don't need to consciously think about, to do'. Sounds like a skill thing, nor does it mean you need to try hard all the time. You being zoned out and fighting someone who is far below your level will be crushed. Same way someone that isn't the best zoning out and fighting someone below their level will lose as well do to a skill difference If you are zoning out in a fight it is pretty clear that person isn't really trying. Also i think its a bit early to jump the gun on saying Noaani can reach a level in a fighting game and zone out against good players. Not everyone reaches high skill levels. Same thing can be said of a tab game where it is much easier to zone out since you know exactly what rotations to do and movements to do as you are use to the content. Either way zoning out isn't a good comparison of difficulty of content, that can be a case for almost anything when you know exactly what to do and what to read. That isn't going to happen if you are in a competitive fight. I am not talking about people far below. I keep meaning to ask you if the only game you played at this level is Soul Calibur, but I wonder if you'll answer. The reason I'm asking is that I normally assume fighting game players play multiple games, so I talk to you as if you've played certain others at similar levels to what I've seen from your Soul Calibur play, when you might not have done that and therefore have different expectations. I am ENTIRELY confident that Noaani would body BOTH of us in most fighting games if so chosen to, and would find it easy to do. (you don't need to counter that point to defend your honor because no one other than me cares, and I've watched your matches so I am pretty confident in it). At some point I've seen some indication that Noaani was a top PvP player in ArcheAge, as mentioned. Noaani's high skill is not in question here, if we are not challenging that claim. It can be treated as a fact.
Mag7spy wrote: » @Azherae Curious though, what content of his have you seen to be making claims on what he can do?
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » @Azherae Curious though, what content of his have you seen to be making claims on what he can do? I don't need to see people's content to trust their words, I feel no need to do this. If Noaani is lying about this, I assume someone will make it clear eventually. And even if so, it doesn't matter because a 'hypothetical Noaani' must exist. I also don't assume that high level PvE players are bad at PvP, I automatically assume the OPPOSITE. I will remind you that making that top 10 claim for Soul Calibur around me is not meaningful, I know all of the timing and information surrounding that. But now that I know that the only game you play seriously is SC, I can stop making certain appeals to experiences I thought you would have had. I now understand that Noaani probably shouldn't make certain comparisons when talking with you either. This is my fault for making assumptions about your experiences and trying to reframe things Noaani says when you quote them, to 'Fighting Game Experience'. I will stop making references to such games when addressing you on these matters. I'd prefer not to take this any further as I think it might be too difficult to avoid somehow offending you or making you feel defensive. But I stand by my claim. I know your skill level in SC. I know what thought processes SC does not teach. I know that your 'top 10 player' status lasted for like ... six days I think, if that? I can go ask. Let's not make this about you trying to prove your ability, I am the only one who cares and I am unlikely to ever change my mind. There's no reason for me to expect that a person who is most likely telling the truth about being top tier will not win against someone who I have explicitly seen play, given basic effort. You can continue to believe that sort of thing if you want, I'm just saying it won't ever convince ME, and that's okay.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » @Azherae Curious though, what content of his have you seen to be making claims on what he can do? I don't need to see people's content to trust their words, I feel no need to do this. If Noaani is lying about this, I assume someone will make it clear eventually. And even if so, it doesn't matter because a 'hypothetical Noaani' must exist. I also don't assume that high level PvE players are bad at PvP, I automatically assume the OPPOSITE. I will remind you that making that top 10 claim for Soul Calibur around me is not meaningful, I know all of the timing and information surrounding that. But now that I know that the only game you play seriously is SC, I can stop making certain appeals to experiences I thought you would have had. I now understand that Noaani probably shouldn't make certain comparisons when talking with you either. This is my fault for making assumptions about your experiences and trying to reframe things Noaani says when you quote them, to 'Fighting Game Experience'. I will stop making references to such games when addressing you on these matters. I'd prefer not to take this any further as I think it might be too difficult to avoid somehow offending you or making you feel defensive. But I stand by my claim. I know your skill level in SC. I know what thought processes SC does not teach. I know that your 'top 10 player' status lasted for like ... six days I think, if that? I can go ask. Let's not make this about you trying to prove your ability, I am the only one who cares and I am unlikely to ever change my mind. There's no reason for me to expect that a person who is most likely telling the truth about being top tier will not win against someone who I have explicitly seen play, given basic effort. You can continue to believe that sort of thing if you want, I'm just saying it won't ever convince ME, and that's okay. You are making a lot of assumptions I was on top for only 6 days? You haven't seen Noaani fight competitive in any games but you are assuming he can be a top 10 in the world? Giving someone the benefit of being good is one thing, but giving the benefit of being one of the best without seeing or fighting them doesn't really sound bound by logic. honestly going by the logic me saying and showing it and saying he wouldn't be me, you should be assuming that there would be a big difference between him fighting a random on soulcalibur and me? I literarily don't understand your logic behind this.... Like I guess anyone can believe anything they want at the end of the day but at some point there has to be some realism.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » @Azherae Curious though, what content of his have you seen to be making claims on what he can do? I don't need to see people's content to trust their words, I feel no need to do this. If Noaani is lying about this, I assume someone will make it clear eventually. And even if so, it doesn't matter because a 'hypothetical Noaani' must exist. I also don't assume that high level PvE players are bad at PvP, I automatically assume the OPPOSITE. I will remind you that making that top 10 claim for Soul Calibur around me is not meaningful, I know all of the timing and information surrounding that. But now that I know that the only game you play seriously is SC, I can stop making certain appeals to experiences I thought you would have had. I now understand that Noaani probably shouldn't make certain comparisons when talking with you either. This is my fault for making assumptions about your experiences and trying to reframe things Noaani says when you quote them, to 'Fighting Game Experience'. I will stop making references to such games when addressing you on these matters. I'd prefer not to take this any further as I think it might be too difficult to avoid somehow offending you or making you feel defensive. But I stand by my claim. I know your skill level in SC. I know what thought processes SC does not teach. I know that your 'top 10 player' status lasted for like ... six days I think, if that? I can go ask. Let's not make this about you trying to prove your ability, I am the only one who cares and I am unlikely to ever change my mind. There's no reason for me to expect that a person who is most likely telling the truth about being top tier will not win against someone who I have explicitly seen play, given basic effort. You can continue to believe that sort of thing if you want, I'm just saying it won't ever convince ME, and that's okay. You are making a lot of assumptions I was on top for only 6 days? You haven't seen Noaani fight competitive in any games but you are assuming he can be a top 10 in the world? Giving someone the benefit of being good is one thing, but giving the benefit of being one of the best without seeing or fighting them doesn't really sound bound by logic. honestly going by the logic me saying and showing it and saying he wouldn't be me, you should be assuming that there would be a big difference between him fighting a random on soulcalibur and me? I literarily don't understand your logic behind this.... Like I guess anyone can believe anything they want at the end of the day but at some point there has to be some realism. I will remind you that I know EXACTLY how long you were on 'top' because I can CHECK that. I can ASK people to DOUBLE check that. Do not embarrass yourself here. There is no need to pursue this point. The only reason anyone has any reason to believe that you were 'top 10 in Soul Calibur' was your screenshot, right? It's trivial for someone like me to check EXACTLY when THAT Rank point number would have been in Top 10 range on XBox. I am not 'here to call you out'. You can ignore everything that even started this, I was trying to make a comparison based on top end play in FAST fighting games. You have only seriously played a SLOW one. There was no point to even make, that's on me.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » @Azherae Curious though, what content of his have you seen to be making claims on what he can do? I don't need to see people's content to trust their words, I feel no need to do this. If Noaani is lying about this, I assume someone will make it clear eventually. And even if so, it doesn't matter because a 'hypothetical Noaani' must exist. I also don't assume that high level PvE players are bad at PvP, I automatically assume the OPPOSITE. I will remind you that making that top 10 claim for Soul Calibur around me is not meaningful, I know all of the timing and information surrounding that. But now that I know that the only game you play seriously is SC, I can stop making certain appeals to experiences I thought you would have had. I now understand that Noaani probably shouldn't make certain comparisons when talking with you either. This is my fault for making assumptions about your experiences and trying to reframe things Noaani says when you quote them, to 'Fighting Game Experience'. I will stop making references to such games when addressing you on these matters. I'd prefer not to take this any further as I think it might be too difficult to avoid somehow offending you or making you feel defensive. But I stand by my claim. I know your skill level in SC. I know what thought processes SC does not teach. I know that your 'top 10 player' status lasted for like ... six days I think, if that? I can go ask. Let's not make this about you trying to prove your ability, I am the only one who cares and I am unlikely to ever change my mind. There's no reason for me to expect that a person who is most likely telling the truth about being top tier will not win against someone who I have explicitly seen play, given basic effort. You can continue to believe that sort of thing if you want, I'm just saying it won't ever convince ME, and that's okay. You are making a lot of assumptions I was on top for only 6 days? You haven't seen Noaani fight competitive in any games but you are assuming he can be a top 10 in the world? Giving someone the benefit of being good is one thing, but giving the benefit of being one of the best without seeing or fighting them doesn't really sound bound by logic. honestly going by the logic me saying and showing it and saying he wouldn't be me, you should be assuming that there would be a big difference between him fighting a random on soulcalibur and me? I literarily don't understand your logic behind this.... Like I guess anyone can believe anything they want at the end of the day but at some point there has to be some realism. I will remind you that I know EXACTLY how long you were on 'top' because I can CHECK that. I can ASK people to DOUBLE check that. Do not embarrass yourself here. There is no need to pursue this point. The only reason anyone has any reason to believe that you were 'top 10 in Soul Calibur' was your screenshot, right? It's trivial for someone like me to check EXACTLY when THAT Rank point number would have been in Top 10 range on XBox. I am not 'here to call you out'. You can ignore everything that even started this, I was trying to make a comparison based on top end play in FAST fighting games. You have only seriously played a SLOW one. There was no point to even make, that's on me. No you actually started this by saying someone you have never seen play games can beat people top 10 suddenly in fighting games confident without evidence or even knowing what games he plays besides mmorpgs. You are free if you can to check my rank and see if it was only 6 days for where my ran was around the top 10 markers for higher and below. Either you are lying or assuming, if you are sololy going based on the screen shots i showed that does not show the full picture on range of me playing the game.
Mag7spy wrote: » No you actually started this by saying someone you have never seen play games can beat people top 10 suddenly in fighting games confident without evidence or even knowing what games he plays besides mmorpgs.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » @Azherae Curious though, what content of his have you seen to be making claims on what he can do? I don't need to see people's content to trust their words, I feel no need to do this. If Noaani is lying about this, I assume someone will make it clear eventually. And even if so, it doesn't matter because a 'hypothetical Noaani' must exist. I also don't assume that high level PvE players are bad at PvP, I automatically assume the OPPOSITE. I will remind you that making that top 10 claim for Soul Calibur around me is not meaningful, I know all of the timing and information surrounding that. But now that I know that the only game you play seriously is SC, I can stop making certain appeals to experiences I thought you would have had. I now understand that Noaani probably shouldn't make certain comparisons when talking with you either. This is my fault for making assumptions about your experiences and trying to reframe things Noaani says when you quote them, to 'Fighting Game Experience'. I will stop making references to such games when addressing you on these matters. I'd prefer not to take this any further as I think it might be too difficult to avoid somehow offending you or making you feel defensive. But I stand by my claim. I know your skill level in SC. I know what thought processes SC does not teach. I know that your 'top 10 player' status lasted for like ... six days I think, if that? I can go ask. Let's not make this about you trying to prove your ability, I am the only one who cares and I am unlikely to ever change my mind. There's no reason for me to expect that a person who is most likely telling the truth about being top tier will not win against someone who I have explicitly seen play, given basic effort. You can continue to believe that sort of thing if you want, I'm just saying it won't ever convince ME, and that's okay. You are making a lot of assumptions I was on top for only 6 days? You haven't seen Noaani fight competitive in any games but you are assuming he can be a top 10 in the world? Giving someone the benefit of being good is one thing, but giving the benefit of being one of the best without seeing or fighting them doesn't really sound bound by logic. honestly going by the logic me saying and showing it and saying he wouldn't be me, you should be assuming that there would be a big difference between him fighting a random on soulcalibur and me? I literarily don't understand your logic behind this.... Like I guess anyone can believe anything they want at the end of the day but at some point there has to be some realism. I will remind you that I know EXACTLY how long you were on 'top' because I can CHECK that. I can ASK people to DOUBLE check that. Do not embarrass yourself here. There is no need to pursue this point. The only reason anyone has any reason to believe that you were 'top 10 in Soul Calibur' was your screenshot, right? It's trivial for someone like me to check EXACTLY when THAT Rank point number would have been in Top 10 range on XBox. I am not 'here to call you out'. You can ignore everything that even started this, I was trying to make a comparison based on top end play in FAST fighting games. You have only seriously played a SLOW one. There was no point to even make, that's on me. No you actually started this by saying someone you have never seen play games can beat people top 10 suddenly in fighting games confident without evidence or even knowing what games he plays besides mmorpgs. You are free if you can to check my rank and see if it was only 6 days for where my ran was around the top 10 markers for higher and below. Either you are lying or assuming, if you are sololy going based on the screen shots i showed that does not show the full picture on range of me playing the game. Ok wait. You said 'I am free to check your rank'. I checked your rank. You were top 10 for 6 days. There you go.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » @Azherae Curious though, what content of his have you seen to be making claims on what he can do? I don't need to see people's content to trust their words, I feel no need to do this. If Noaani is lying about this, I assume someone will make it clear eventually. And even if so, it doesn't matter because a 'hypothetical Noaani' must exist. I also don't assume that high level PvE players are bad at PvP, I automatically assume the OPPOSITE. I will remind you that making that top 10 claim for Soul Calibur around me is not meaningful, I know all of the timing and information surrounding that. But now that I know that the only game you play seriously is SC, I can stop making certain appeals to experiences I thought you would have had. I now understand that Noaani probably shouldn't make certain comparisons when talking with you either. This is my fault for making assumptions about your experiences and trying to reframe things Noaani says when you quote them, to 'Fighting Game Experience'. I will stop making references to such games when addressing you on these matters. I'd prefer not to take this any further as I think it might be too difficult to avoid somehow offending you or making you feel defensive. But I stand by my claim. I know your skill level in SC. I know what thought processes SC does not teach. I know that your 'top 10 player' status lasted for like ... six days I think, if that? I can go ask. Let's not make this about you trying to prove your ability, I am the only one who cares and I am unlikely to ever change my mind. There's no reason for me to expect that a person who is most likely telling the truth about being top tier will not win against someone who I have explicitly seen play, given basic effort. You can continue to believe that sort of thing if you want, I'm just saying it won't ever convince ME, and that's okay. You are making a lot of assumptions I was on top for only 6 days? You haven't seen Noaani fight competitive in any games but you are assuming he can be a top 10 in the world? Giving someone the benefit of being good is one thing, but giving the benefit of being one of the best without seeing or fighting them doesn't really sound bound by logic. honestly going by the logic me saying and showing it and saying he wouldn't be me, you should be assuming that there would be a big difference between him fighting a random on soulcalibur and me? I literarily don't understand your logic behind this.... Like I guess anyone can believe anything they want at the end of the day but at some point there has to be some realism. I will remind you that I know EXACTLY how long you were on 'top' because I can CHECK that. I can ASK people to DOUBLE check that. Do not embarrass yourself here. There is no need to pursue this point. The only reason anyone has any reason to believe that you were 'top 10 in Soul Calibur' was your screenshot, right? It's trivial for someone like me to check EXACTLY when THAT Rank point number would have been in Top 10 range on XBox. I am not 'here to call you out'. You can ignore everything that even started this, I was trying to make a comparison based on top end play in FAST fighting games. You have only seriously played a SLOW one. There was no point to even make, that's on me. No you actually started this by saying someone you have never seen play games can beat people top 10 suddenly in fighting games confident without evidence or even knowing what games he plays besides mmorpgs. You are free if you can to check my rank and see if it was only 6 days for where my ran was around the top 10 markers for higher and below. Either you are lying or assuming, if you are sololy going based on the screen shots i showed that does not show the full picture on range of me playing the game. Ok wait. You said 'I am free to check your rank'. I checked your rank. You were top 10 for 6 days. There you go. If you are going to say something you know you should actually use proof instead of just saying something online. It will sound a lot more believable btw.
NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » No you actually started this by saying someone you have never seen play games can beat people top 10 suddenly in fighting games confident without evidence or even knowing what games he plays besides mmorpgs. I read it as "if Noaani wanted to, he could play the game long enough to get the skill to be able to beat either of you". And I saw that assumption as one based on Noaani's attitude towards gaming overall, that is - highly analytical and super hardcore. I've also haven't seen any proof from him on the things he's said, but to me (and seemingly to Azherae) it's a simple case of "true until proven otherwise". Noaani is a random person on the internet that might not even exist. Though keeping up the same persona for over a decade, as shown by the EQ2 forums link, would require a lot of commitment. Probably as much commitment as one would need in order to get good enough at SC to beat both you and Azherae.
Mag7spy wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » No you actually started this by saying someone you have never seen play games can beat people top 10 suddenly in fighting games confident without evidence or even knowing what games he plays besides mmorpgs. I read it as "if Noaani wanted to, he could play the game long enough to get the skill to be able to beat either of you". And I saw that assumption as one based on Noaani's attitude towards gaming overall, that is - highly analytical and super hardcore. I've also haven't seen any proof from him on the things he's said, but to me (and seemingly to Azherae) it's a simple case of "true until proven otherwise". Noaani is a random person on the internet that might not even exist. Though keeping up the same persona for over a decade, as shown by the EQ2 forums link, would require a lot of commitment. Probably as much commitment as one would need in order to get good enough at SC to beat both you and Azherae. @Azherae Thing is playing a lot doesn't mean he will be better its a different skill set of a fighting game and a mmorpg. This argument is akin if anyone plays a lot they can beat any person that is extremely skilled in the game. And reading tracking sheets or crunching numbers is not going to make you win against a better player in a fighting game. Questions are what proof is there that he has played on a higher level, age, has he played fighting games in the past and grown up with them, as he played the suggest fighting game before to begin with, how many hours has he spent with those games. If you are going on a assumption that first most he has not stated as far as i believe on playing fighting games to any kind of extreme value so arguing he is going to beat someone who didn't just play it but reached the top and fought some very competitive players is a bit weird. Or are we saying if he played fighting games while growing, up and played these games instead of mmorpgs than maybe he could beat you because I believe he is a good gamer even though i haven't seen anything. and even though you have shown stuff and proved it I think he could beat you just because i believe it. That is just kind of weird, to say if he played the game he could get decent, maybe he might. But I'm not talking about decent to beat me when I was at the time so using me as a reference doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless you are just trying to say it to get some raise out of me. I don't need to be defensive about it because what you are saying doesn't make sense to me as a competitive player.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » @Azherae Curious though, what content of his have you seen to be making claims on what he can do? I don't need to see people's content to trust their words, I feel no need to do this. If Noaani is lying about this, I assume someone will make it clear eventually. And even if so, it doesn't matter because a 'hypothetical Noaani' must exist. I also don't assume that high level PvE players are bad at PvP, I automatically assume the OPPOSITE. I will remind you that making that top 10 claim for Soul Calibur around me is not meaningful, I know all of the timing and information surrounding that. But now that I know that the only game you play seriously is SC, I can stop making certain appeals to experiences I thought you would have had. I now understand that Noaani probably shouldn't make certain comparisons when talking with you either. This is my fault for making assumptions about your experiences and trying to reframe things Noaani says when you quote them, to 'Fighting Game Experience'. I will stop making references to such games when addressing you on these matters. I'd prefer not to take this any further as I think it might be too difficult to avoid somehow offending you or making you feel defensive. But I stand by my claim. I know your skill level in SC. I know what thought processes SC does not teach. I know that your 'top 10 player' status lasted for like ... six days I think, if that? I can go ask. Let's not make this about you trying to prove your ability, I am the only one who cares and I am unlikely to ever change my mind. There's no reason for me to expect that a person who is most likely telling the truth about being top tier will not win against someone who I have explicitly seen play, given basic effort. You can continue to believe that sort of thing if you want, I'm just saying it won't ever convince ME, and that's okay. You are making a lot of assumptions I was on top for only 6 days? You haven't seen Noaani fight competitive in any games but you are assuming he can be a top 10 in the world? Giving someone the benefit of being good is one thing, but giving the benefit of being one of the best without seeing or fighting them doesn't really sound bound by logic. honestly going by the logic me saying and showing it and saying he wouldn't be me, you should be assuming that there would be a big difference between him fighting a random on soulcalibur and me? I literarily don't understand your logic behind this.... Like I guess anyone can believe anything they want at the end of the day but at some point there has to be some realism. I will remind you that I know EXACTLY how long you were on 'top' because I can CHECK that. I can ASK people to DOUBLE check that. Do not embarrass yourself here. There is no need to pursue this point. The only reason anyone has any reason to believe that you were 'top 10 in Soul Calibur' was your screenshot, right? It's trivial for someone like me to check EXACTLY when THAT Rank point number would have been in Top 10 range on XBox. I am not 'here to call you out'. You can ignore everything that even started this, I was trying to make a comparison based on top end play in FAST fighting games. You have only seriously played a SLOW one. There was no point to even make, that's on me. No you actually started this by saying someone you have never seen play games can beat people top 10 suddenly in fighting games confident without evidence or even knowing what games he plays besides mmorpgs. You are free if you can to check my rank and see if it was only 6 days for where my ran was around the top 10 markers for higher and below. Either you are lying or assuming, if you are sololy going based on the screen shots i showed that does not show the full picture on range of me playing the game. Ok wait. You said 'I am free to check your rank'. I checked your rank. You were top 10 for 6 days. There you go. If you are going to say something you know you should actually use proof instead of just saying something online. It will sound a lot more believable btw. Good. Then just ignore it. Since I am not going to reveal my sources, nor am I going to compromise YOU in any way, you can assume 'it really looks like I am just lying' and other people will just assume I'm lying. You don't have to worry about it if it isn't believable, and I don't care about it anymore. I have learned the most important aspect of this. You have not seriously played any fast fighting games, so you did not understand the point I was making.
