Ideas for crafting professions

It would be so cool if engineers could craft some kind of bombs that incapacitate enemy player, imagine having CC of 3sec that breaks off damage, it would be cool if we had some kind of utility for PvP especially from engineer profession. Imagine placing some kind of machine that fights for you, not big dmg, but slightly of an impact, imagine spending time for crafting just to use them in battles and open world PvP, of course those items would spend as potions, that's what I mean.
Also I kind of would like to see bandages, I don't know if you have plans for that, but what if you created first aid profession and what if we could create bandages somehow or from humanoid cloth drops, it would be cool if we could farm like 30min daily or before battles, both PvE and PvP, in areas full of human mobs and to gather as many cloth from them as we can. Of course it would be ideal if you created hardcore like game where you have to spend at least 30min farming before going to raid or siege, because if you created it differently it would suck in my opinion. 30min is cool.
These kind of ideas intrigue me in rpg games, in my opinion game is not rpg unless it has good and meaningful farming to prepare for "bigger" content like raids. One thing why vanilla WoW is the best game of all times for me is that you had to prepare for raids, all consumables and world buffs or flower buffs would increase your power by at least 40 precent, that is reason why that game felt both hardcore and enjoyable because you had that sense as if you are in that virtual world, preparing and building your character like in any other game.
I hope you understand me and see these ideas, yes WoW had them, but it does not mean other games can create those ideas too, I mean WoW takes all kind of stuff from other companies, just look at dragon riding, it is same content as gw2 and it is unique to that game, so yeah... Make game the best possible and don't care for that stuff I would say...

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worddog2

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

One thing why vanilla WoW is the best game of all times for me is that you had to prepare for raids, all consumables and world buffs or flower buffs would increase your power by at least 40 precent

You actually didn't need most of those buffs in vanilla WoW, the game was so easy back then you could genuinely beat most of the raids without even having the proper gear.

CROW3

Or you could mine a node being sieged. Would make the resulting PvP zone a little more spicy.

VekoKrava

I meant if you compare retail wow to classic, professions are useless. In classic you had gear pieces that give +30 spell power and enchanting on weapon gave +30 spell power for example. Engineering was super useful because some items were on longer CD and it dealt 1k dmg to target and people had around 2-3k hp at first phase even later before AQ and naxx. Engineering bombs were useful because they would incapacitate target for 3sec, removed cc upon taking dmg, but it would be crucial to some to run away or deny casting spell or to catch someone. For example of engineers could craft ammo that would buff rangers basic attacks, it would be cool if it buffs dmg for noticable amount, at least some 15% increase.

I only suggested for those things, engineering stuff and bandages, it would be cool to have something similar to classic WoW because I think classic wow is superior to crafting in any mmo game that I played, gw2, new world. I'm not an expert on MMOs, but I seen some designs in those games that I think are pretty bad. They don't have stuff like those engineering bombs..etc.

Noaani

Yeah, professions in actual vanilla WoW were somewhat useful. It is actually literally the only thing I can say is a good thing that WoW did in 2004/5 that EQ2 didnt do (professions in EQ2 didnt become actually useful until about 2007).

That said, engineering doesnt really fit Ashes, imo.

I'd like to see a range of short duration CC consumables but to me, this would fit alchemy just fine (oil slick slow, flashbang blind, thunderstone silence, glue root, etc), and that would mesh with Ashes better than engineering.

Halae

Noaani wrote: »

That said, engineering doesnt really fit Ashes, imo.

Why exactly? Leaving aside that Engineer was one of the classes in Apocalypse, "Arcane Engineering" is literally one of the crafting classes in the artisan system as we have it now.

Engineering doesn't mean machines and modern industry. It means taking resources that exist in your environment, refining them in specific ways, and putting those refined parts together to create a finished product that works in specific ways. Your example of a deafening thunderstone or flashbang crystal are classic examples of engineering, whether they work off of magic or scientific mechanisms. Hell, one of the weapons we have on the wiki is "potion launcher", which is like a grenade launcher that fires small glass orbs that explode into elemental blasts, which is an awesome concept that other fantasy games should have figured out before.

If you're getting brain spiders because you attach the word "engineering" to modern technology, stop that and rethink your position. Think about what engineering would actually mean in a magical world.

Noaani

Halae wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

That said, engineering doesnt really fit Ashes, imo.

Why exactly?

Because thats my opinion.

An engineer in Ashes should be making siege engines and potion launchers (ie, ship weapons), not little trinkets.

Also, so far all consumables that we know of are being made by processors, not crafters. Engineers are almost certainly going to be crafters (if they remain in the game), and so in my opinion (or - imo of you prefer), it doesnt fit that well.

Your comments that I am assuming "engineering" means anything modern are patently incorrect. As a word, its origins are Latin and it basically means to invent or devise (from memory, I dont recall the exact accepted translation from ingeniare).

You should go around assuming other people thoughts and opinions.

Halae

Okay, sure, I was wrong about what your assumption about the word was, but I was still right that you're making strange assumptions about the nature of the word. Engineering has no innate connotation of grand works, Noaani. A pocket watch or grenade is as much a product of engineering as a trebuchet or a power plant. "little trinkets" are as much a part of engineering as big stuff.

Noaani

Halae wrote: »

A pocket watch or grenade is as much a product of engineering as a trebuchet or a power plant. "little trinkets" are as much a part of engineering as big stuff.

Noaani wrote: »

Also, so far all consumables that we know of are being made by processors, not crafters. Engineers are almost certainly going to be crafters (if they remain in the game), and so in my opinion (or - imo of you prefer), it doesnt fit that well.

It's almost- ALMOST - as if I thought things through from multiple different angles before forming and sharing an opinion on the matter.

It's a shame you didnt bother reading.

Halae

Okay, First off, you're actually wrong on all consumables being produced via processing. Scribes make enchanting scrolls, which are consumed via enchanting.

Second, I didn't get into that because it wasn't relevant to the point I was making. You're debating the very concept of an engineer being appropriate to the game's essential narrative, which is what I was arguing against, which is why I didn't address the whole post. This isn't some gotcha where you can say I'm stupid because I didn't address every point, I was addressing what was relevant to what I was saying.

Doc_Masterson

I like how DAoC used to be. You would craft gear and get different levels. where when you jewel crafted gear you could put more on better quality gear, so say 90% gear might get 15 pts for jewel or spell crafting, but 100 might get you 26 pts. Would drive a good market, and give those that craft more enjoyment. Plus if player crafted and upgraded gear was as good as those in top tier raids that most casual type players have no chance of getting in, it would make the game/specs more unique as well as make crafting more than a trivial thing like most game crafts are.

Noaani

Halae wrote: »

Okay, First off, you're actually wrong on all consumables being produced via processing. Scribes make enchanting scrolls, which are consumed via enchanting.

I mean, this is like saying logs are consumables because they are consumed in the making of lumber.

You're debating the very concept of an engineer being appropriate to the game's essential narrative

No. I was debating the idea presented, which includes the idea of an engineer class being present.

I personally don't think an engineer class is appropriate for Ashes. Once again, the word essentially means to invent. We aren't going to invent anything, we are going to build from a blueprint. An engineer would be appropriate to call the person that experiments to build a siege engine, as an example, but once that has been figured out, the appropriate term (going back to Latin - because why not) would be a Faber.

Calling someone that takes a blueprint, acquires a prescribed list of materials and constructs what said blueprint describes is literally the opposite of what an engineer is.

In order for an MMO to have what I would consider an acceptable engineer, players would need to have the ability too actually invent in game. Not experiment with materials in order to find an existing combination to make an item - actually invent.

Since that isn't viable, I don't see how an MMO could have an engineer.

Halae

Those are some speedy goalposts right there, Noaani. If this was your complaint, why did you make a complaint about grand works, in reference to siege engines in the first place? Starting to feel like you're trying to "win" the argument, rather than caring about the integrity of your point.

But sure, let's move onto this post. You're actually wrong again; discovering new recipes via the combination of new materials in different combinations has been a defined part of the crafting system for years now. We don't know if that's still a part of the system after all these updates they've done, but they haven't told us otherwise, so until we have evidence otherwise it's still on the table.

VekoKrava

Noaani wrote: »

Halae wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

That said, engineering doesnt really fit Ashes, imo.

Why exactly?

An engineer in Ashes should be making siege engines and potion launchers (ie, ship weapons), not little trinkets.

I think that engineers should have bombs to deal siege dmg to walls and structures, as well as bombs that blind people for 3sec - removable upon taking dmg. It should have ammo making for rangers (I heard there will be ammo that makes your weapon stronger, but wont be mandatory), it should have laser beams or some trinket that deals big dmg, lets say 35% HP on long CD, things like those are not balanced, rather have an impact on how you see or feel game. Is it sandbox and full of useful stuff that makes virtual world feels worth farming and it connects you to game more so then other games, because all those things I mentioned before would spend on use, it would take spaces in your bags and not stack (except bombs that blind player and bandages), so you will have to farm them in order to use them, and to farm them it needs to be useful to be noticable, that creates sandbox vibe I am talking. Vanilla WoW did great giving us that sandbox vibe while doing professions while leveling. Every little thing as I can remember in Vanilla WoW (and I played classic in 2019) was useful. Take leatherworking for example - you would create named item on 25lvl and it would not be replaced till 35, that is roughly 24 hours of gameplay or even more. Some items for tailoring - search it up, are so useful that on 35lvl you would not replace it even in 60 lvl dungeons just because how good it is, because it takes time to create it because some cloth that only drops from demon would drop on low chance (I guess at 5% or less). It is possible to make it, but it takes time, I am guessing around 3-4 h farming that area for 1 piece of equipment. You see what I see? Wow is a great game because it OFFERS SANDBOX and CASUAL at the same time, it is not HARD CORE as games were previous, it just requires knowledge and you could not get it but with luck at that time, because no one knew anything, you had to guess things and try for yourself, there were no guides. I love that game because of that.

Noaani

Halae wrote: »

Those are some speedy goalposts right there, Noaani. If this was your complaint, why did you make a complaint about grand works, in reference to siege engines in the first place?

You seem to not understand that people can have opinions on concepts from multiple angles.

I dont think engineers should be a profession in Ashes, as there is literally no way Intrepid can design a class to fit that definition.

However, if they have one, it should he a class that makes siege engines and ship weapons. It is still technically incorrect imo, but it at least makes sense (and engineer making engines). It also potentially fits in with the greater scheme of professions in Ashes.

What doesnt fit in is an engineer making combat consumables (added the word combat in there for your clarification - I thought it was obvious I was talking about combat consumables earlier, but I should know to not overestimate people).

Since all combat consumables are made by processors rather than crafters, it doesnt fit Ashes professions as we currently understand them to have a crafting profession make some combat consumables, especially not when the exact same combat mechanics can be added using a different profession from the processor branch.

As an opinion, the above has not changed at all since my first post on the topic. No "speedy goalposts" or anything - though you may have simply misjudged exactly where they were.

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