Another area perma flagged for PVP?

Is this true? Nodes that have been destroyed... through siege or neglect... will be auto flagged PVP areas for some time?

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Sathrago

@Dygz At the end of the day you can choose to never go in those areas. Its the exact same as choosing to not go into a caravan zone. Not to mention, when you decide to play the game you are accepting that you are always at risk of pvp. The only difference with battlegrounds is that players that choose to enter such a place are consenting to flagged pvp before there is a need for retaliation rather than after. If you do not like that, there's not much else to it. This has been clear the entire way through development that pvp is a core aspect of the game. You cannot avoid it entirely. That's just a fact you have to either live with or move on.

Steven did not mislead you, lie to you, or stretch anything.

Azherae

Sathrago wrote: »

@Dygz At the end of the day you can choose to never go in those areas. Its the exact same as choosing to not go into a caravan zone. Not to mention, when you decide to play the game you are accepting that you are always at risk of pvp. The only difference with battlegrounds is that players that choose to enter such a place are consenting to flagged pvp before there is a need for retaliation rather than after. If you do not like that, there's not much else to it. This has been clear the entire way through development that pvp is a core aspect of the game. You cannot avoid it entirely. That's just a fact you have to either live with or move on.

Steven did not mislead you, lie to you, or stretch anything.

But he did CHANGE something.

Something that was specifically asked about, so yeah you can say 'it wasn't a lie'. And it wasn't. You can interpret it to mean that. That's the problem. There's so much stuff that people read into that could just be 'reinterpreted' at any time. Not even 'oh this always meant this but now it's been clarified'.

Just 'yeah the team decided to use one of the multiple interpretations of the vague thing we said before'.

I don't like this type of response because I feel like using it automatically diminishes faith in what the vision is. It's rough enough to take the various nebulous things that Ashes says as positives without having to constantly 'assume it means the thing you would like the least'.

If we all 'assume everything Steven says should be interpreted in the way we are least happy with', would we all still be here?

Sathrago

Azherae wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

@Sathrago The Battlegrounds Steven described previously are temporary and opt-in - you manually choose to participate.
"Players within that area are going to be cued with a user-interface that says, "Do you want to participate to Attack, Defend or Ignore..."
Ignore means you are not auto-flagged.

Yes when you enter a battleground zone it notifies you that you will be flagged. This is both the case for a caravan and the open sea. You're problem is that one moves and is temporary while the other persists for a long or permanent duration making you, my god, have to choose to engage with it or not to engage with the areas content.

You are entitled to not liking pvp. But acting like you weren't told it would be a thing when I just posted him saying open world battlegrounds from 2017 is just dumb.

I don't know about Dygz but to me the reason this is different is because of how it causes/allows OTHER players to behave.

A game which has a constant FFA PvP area has both a different 'feel' and a different set of players and player behaviours than one that doesn't. Node Ruins wouldn't change it, but Open Seas does.

Yes there is a slight difference, a single one . You can be attacked at anytime full force by someone because their are no corruption penalties for killing you outright. The hesitation is removed from the attacking party. People are in that zone understanding that if someone attacks you they mean to kill you (in most cases).

This dynamic was always going to be a feature because battlegrounds have always been a feature listed to be in the works. The Open Seas is just a massive, permanent battleground zone.

Azherae

Sathrago wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

@Sathrago The Battlegrounds Steven described previously are temporary and opt-in - you manually choose to participate.
"Players within that area are going to be cued with a user-interface that says, "Do you want to participate to Attack, Defend or Ignore..."
Ignore means you are not auto-flagged.

Yes when you enter a battleground zone it notifies you that you will be flagged. This is both the case for a caravan and the open sea. You're problem is that one moves and is temporary while the other persists for a long or permanent duration making you, my god, have to choose to engage with it or not to engage with the areas content.

You are entitled to not liking pvp. But acting like you weren't told it would be a thing when I just posted him saying open world battlegrounds from 2017 is just dumb.

I don't know about Dygz but to me the reason this is different is because of how it causes/allows OTHER players to behave.

A game which has a constant FFA PvP area has both a different 'feel' and a different set of players and player behaviours than one that doesn't. Node Ruins wouldn't change it, but Open Seas does.

Yes there is a slight difference, a single one . You can be attacked at anytime full force by someone because their are no corruption penalties for killing you outright. The hesitation is removed from the attacking party. People are in that zone understanding that if someone attacks you they mean to kill you (in most cases).

This dynamic was always going to be a feature because battlegrounds have always been a feature listed to be in the works. The Open Seas is just a massive, permanent battleground zone.

Nah, I REALLY don't think you can say 'was always going to be a feature'.

Because it was explicitly a 'hey we made a change to this'. There was no reason to assume this was going to be a thing in a permanent zone ANYWHERE, in my opinion IF you didn't understand enough about ArcheAge or Lineage OR you got the impression somehow from Steven that he wasn't going to do the same things as those games (reasonable enough, because they could have said that from the beginning, that's why it is a 'change')

This sounds way too much like the one thing I'm really worried about, either side, PvP or PvP-nothx, going 'this is what the game always was, you should have known that'.

If Steven says "ok you can make massive Freehold Communities right next to each other now and be safe there, but I always said Freeholds would be safe zones, so it's fine", are we going to just go 'This was always going to be a feature'?

Azherae

Probably a better example would be a sorta 'throwaway, possible gaffe/misspeak' from the AMA.

Steven said SOMETHING about 'Exp for PvP'.

Now, what does that mean? Does it mean 'Oh, well sure, gotta give people some exp for Caravans at least, to offset their investment in time'.

Does it mean "Well ok there's probably some special situation under which PvP grants Exp."

Or does it mean "Well we decided it's ok for PvP to grant Exp because if you lose you lose Exp and you can't flag on your Guild or NodeMates, so it'll be fine."

Do we then claim 'Exp for Open World PvP' as a 'feature we were always going to have'?

Will people be going out to Open Seas to PvP for Exp? That would be among the 'worst interpretations' for some people, and the only thing we'd have to go on is the APPARENT philosophy of the game to tell us 'nah that's not likely'.

The APPARENT philosophy of this game to Dygz and myself would definitely not have led to "Rewarding FFA Open Seas PvP", given Steven's answer that Dygz is referencing. That answer is in fact the ONLY reason I wouldn't have thought so, in a game that says 'nope, no Safe Zones'.

Depraved

afaik seas have safe zones near the coast. you are only auto flagged if you sail too far way from it

Azherae

Depraved wrote: »

afaik seas have safe zones near the coast. you are only auto flagged if you sail too far way from it

True enough, but in case I am giving the wrong impression, this isn't about the Open Seas PvP at all, I don't care that much about it other than what I said, even if I disagree, I don't know the real reason.

I could speculate, I could assume the worst, or I could do what the community needs and wait to test. It's not me that will get 'discouraged' here.

Veeshan

Dygz wrote: »

Caravans are opt-in. You manually choose to participate.
The Open Seas are permanent auto-flag.
Node Ruins seem to be temporary auto-flag.

you manually choose to enter the zone, its like terms and service pop up for games so you can hit the i agree button to enter or decline to not enter, so basicly you can agree enter for potential pvp or u can go around the ruins to opt out.

Its basicly open world battle grounds like WoW wintergrasp on PvE you can avoid the area and not flag pvp or u can go in to enter PvP mode its 100% opt in

unknownsystemerror

Azherae wrote: »

Probably a better example would be a sorta 'throwaway, possible gaffe/misspeak' from the AMA.

Steven said SOMETHING about 'Exp for PvP'.

Now, what does that mean? Does it mean 'Oh, well sure, gotta give people some exp for Caravans at least, to offset their investment in time'.

Does it mean "Well ok there's probably some special situation under which PvP grants Exp."

Or does it mean "Well we decided it's ok for PvP to grant Exp because if you lose you lose Exp and you can't flag on your Guild or NodeMates, so it'll be fine."

Do we then claim 'Exp for Open World PvP' as a 'feature we were always going to have'?

Will people be going out to Open Seas to PvP for Exp? That would be among the 'worst interpretations' for some people, and the only thing we'd have to go on is the APPARENT philosophy of the game to tell us 'nah that's not likely'.

The APPARENT philosophy of this game to Dygz and myself would definitely not have led to "Rewarding FFA Open Seas PvP", given Steven's answer that Dygz is referencing. That answer is in fact the ONLY reason I wouldn't have thought so, in a game that says 'nope, no Safe Zones'.

You can indeed gain exp from pvp. It has diminishing returns built in to prevent issues like kill trading and others. But you will be able to do various activities, pvp included, that will give some exp. Will you be able to level purely through pvp? Most likely not as they want people to participate in a variety of activities. Part of the often quoted "to challenge yourself". This was reinforced during the AMA that questing will also not get you all the way to "endgame" and that other activities like grinding will be needed.

FuryBladeborne

@Abarat
"Another area perma flagged for PVP?"

Technically its the same area that was already flagged for PVP (from the siege). It just doesn't flip back to PVE as fast as you apparently assumed. Also, its not permanent. The conflict and PVP goes away after a period of time related to the time it took to develop the node.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Personally there are a lot of people on all sides that are silent about things on both fronts. Tons of people also want a pvp game but will never post on a forum.

This is true.

This is why one should be aware of anyone claiming to be speaking from the perspective of "most" players.

Generally speaking, such comments are just outright lies, stated as a means to attempt to provide legitimacy that would otherwise be lacking from the statement.

DarkTides

With all the forum PVP that goes on from avid anti PvPers, I think you guys would do quite well if that energy was directed at PvP in game.

Azherae

DarkTides wrote: »

With all the forum PVP that goes on from avid anti PvPers, I think you guys would do quite well if that energy was directed at PvP in game.

There are avid anti-PvPers on the forum?

Mag7spy

DarkTides wrote: »

With all the forum PVP that goes on from avid anti PvPers, I think you guys would do quite well if that energy was directed at PvP in game.

Legit wish i could PvP in game with my guild but got years to wait.

Veeshan

Azherae wrote: »

DarkTides wrote: »

With all the forum PVP that goes on from avid anti PvPers, I think you guys would do quite well if that energy was directed at PvP in game.

There are avid anti-PvPers on the forum?

One person here has 6.5k comments and half of them are probaly him crying bout PvP in the game lol pretty much replies to any post that has anything to do with pvp complaining bout it :P

Mag7spy

Just cause i have 6.5k post doesn't mean i cry about pvp -__-

Ludullu

Veeshan wrote: »

One person here has 6.5k comments and half of them are probaly him crying bout PvP in the game lol pretty much replies to any post that has anything to do with pvp complaining bout it :P

Come on now, Dygz is not in every pvp thread. Maybe every other one, but not every.

Glir

Mag7spy wrote: »

Personally there are a lot of people on all sides that are silent about things on both fronts. Tons of people also want a pvp game but will never post on a forum.

True, actually pvp-players always not active on a forum threads in any game. It always was and, probably, will be.

I hope Steven doesn't deviate from the path of hardcore and PVP-side of a game. Also, of course he shouldn't forget about PVE, which always has good mechanics. There is ton of mmorpg games build for pve-fans, but not so much for pvp-lovers.

Ludullu

Lineager wrote: »

True, actually pvp-players always not active on a forum threads in any game. It always was and, probably, will be.

L2's whole private server scene was held up by the fact that L2 players loved to sit on forums and flame each other, which then translated to the game and back to the forums.

Glir

NiKr wrote: »

Lineager wrote: »

True, actually pvp-players always not active on a forum threads in any game. It always was and, probably, will be.

L2's whole private server scene was held up by the fact that L2 players loved to sit on forums and flame each other, which then translated to the game and back to the forums.

On Lineage 2 private server's forums always was sitting few humans, repesenting each big-guilds and tried to swear, find out who is cool and who is not. 95% of the players didn't know where to click on the site to enter the forum. That's what was L2 private servers.

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