Abarat wrote: » SongRune wrote: » Really? "Based on the clear statements of design intent this game, as it is now, is not for me." Is that that weird? Sure they can completely change what kind of game they're building. Sure they can decide to go back on core gameplay elements. But if they're clear about what they're going to build, and you don't like THAT? Why the hell would you go "Oh, well maybe this time I WILL like these things I always hate"? I get "not being sure of the details", but those people aren't talking about the DETAILS. They're talking about the clear statements. The ones who ARE talking about the details tend to say "I hope it changes, but if it stays this way, I won't play." Intrepid... please refund this persons money and cancel their account. They clearly feel you have betrayed them in a meaningful way.
SongRune wrote: » Really? "Based on the clear statements of design intent this game, as it is now, is not for me." Is that that weird? Sure they can completely change what kind of game they're building. Sure they can decide to go back on core gameplay elements. But if they're clear about what they're going to build, and you don't like THAT? Why the hell would you go "Oh, well maybe this time I WILL like these things I always hate"? I get "not being sure of the details", but those people aren't talking about the DETAILS. They're talking about the clear statements. The ones who ARE talking about the details tend to say "I hope it changes, but if it stays this way, I won't play."
Strevi wrote: » You do not have to read the chat.
Strevi wrote: » So if tether is removed from the NPCs, you will not play the game? You seem to expect NPCs to be dumbed-down, with short sight, loosing interest if you move far enough because that is how the tradition in such games is.
Strevi wrote: » Would it be ok if you get good invisibility to some reasonable distance, similar to what NPCs detect? Maybe there will be fog on the sea. Also some areas might be under permanent or long control by alliances. And when battles happen, small ships further away might be ignored.
Strevi wrote: » That one hour might be enough to cross the ocean and visit places. Also is enough to play as a support character in a team which do not need you to be in top shape. There will be other players like you too.
Strevi wrote: » Wait for that PvP hour mood to come and only then go into the ocean. And even then, it can happen that you see no battle at all. You ended up associating negative feelings with such events because you went there when you was not prepared. And now even the possibility that it could happen (even if that 1 hour PvP mood comes) it bothers you. You can undo that if you try.
Strevi wrote: » Your bigger problem might be the friends who do not wait and pull you into pvp zones when you are not ready.
Vaknar wrote: » Ashes of Creation is a big and complex game with many systems. Not everyone will love every system of Ashes of Creation and that is ok as long as we respect those with differing opinions and are well unto one another😌
Noaani wrote: » Announcements like this SHOULD NOT happen when this games community has been active as long as it has. There is no excuse for it, and it is setting the bar for disrespect among the community - I mean, if the developer doesnt respect players, why would players respect players?
NiKr wrote: » Would've the announcement been better if they gave concrete reasoning for the change?
Noaani wrote: » Nah, it would have been better if it was a part of the kickstarter. I mean, naval content was a stretch goal of the kickstarter - it being all PvP all the time should have been mentioned there. Edit to add; dont get me wrong, I assumed this would be the case. However, something as major as this (the corruption system not functioning in conjunction with an entire sphere of gameplay) shouldnt rely on assumptions.
NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Nah, it would have been better if it was a part of the kickstarter. I mean, naval content was a stretch goal of the kickstarter - it being all PvP all the time should have been mentioned there. Edit to add; dont get me wrong, I assumed this would be the case. However, something as major as this (the corruption system not functioning in conjunction with an entire sphere of gameplay) shouldnt rely on assumptions. What if there was some mechanic redesign that led Intrepid to believe that pvp in the seas would only work with ffa instead of a corruption-based system. And this redesign wasn't foreseen during kickstarter and was kind of a surprise for Intrepid themselves or just wasn't foreseen before proper QA testing. Just as the Apocalypse allegedly showed that Intrepid had big backend problems for their planned combat, some kind of internal extensive testing of naval battles could've shown that only ffa would probably work. And that testing was only done somewhat recently because naval battles were the latest thing to develop. I'm not justifying the change itself or saying that Intrepid were completely in the right, but I could definitely see ways of how the development could've gone in the direction I described and the only choices were either the one we got or no naval pvp at all (or at least a super trashy one). And the change that we've got is way closer to AoC's design than no pvp.
Azherae wrote: » [The problem with THIS one is that it is BORDERLINE impossible for it to be true for this specific case, I think. In terms of straight up DESIGN, if 'the moment you leave the land via ship, this starts' could lead to someone thinking 'yeah this might be a system requirement'. But as many posters pointed out, it doesn't happen. You CAN still have entirely Naval battles with Corruption. Any 'issues with Corruption' that would have happened in Open Seas will happen in Coastal waters. If anything I care more about them there because defending/blockading a Harbor is much more my gameplay style than 'sailing out to sea for whatever is out there'.
Dygz wrote: » Easier to just not play a game that has a deal-breaker mechanic.
Dygz wrote: » Strevi wrote: » Wait for that PvP hour mood to come and only then go into the ocean. And even then, it can happen that you see no battle at all. You ended up associating negative feelings with such events because you went there when you was not prepared. And now even the possibility that it could happen (even if that 1 hour PvP mood comes) it bothers you. You can undo that if you try. I don’t know what you mean by bothered. I don’t like the taste of coffee. If you say you’re going to bring me a hot beverage, I will probably say, “OK. As long as it’s not coffee.” “Oh. It’s different than coffee.” There should be no surprise that you say, “Well, actually it is coffee,” I reply, “Oh. No. Thanks. I don’t like coffee.” And refuse to drink it. Not drinking the coffee does it mean that I’m bothered. I’m just refusing to partake in something I don’t like. And, yeah, at that point, I might also be like, “Yep. I’m good. You don’t need to bring me anything to drink.”
Dygz wrote: » Strevi wrote: » Would it be ok if you get good invisibility to some reasonable distance, similar to what NPCs detect? Maybe there will be fog on the sea. Also some areas might be under permanent or long control by alliances. And when battles happen, small ships further away might be ignored. I don't understand the question. I don't care if there is fog or not. What I care about is there being a zone where I'm auto-flagged as a Combatant.
Dygz wrote: » Strevi wrote: » What if before reaching those unique bosses, you have to defeat some other bosses and they prove to be too difficult for you? Basically you might never even pass beyond 30% of the dungeon. Is it the knowledge that a human controlled rather than an AI controlled character defeated you bothers you? Human players are more ruthless and conniving than AI. And I'm confident that I can Stealth past AI and sufficiently avoid combat with AI as I explore areas. For the most part, I can explore the areas I want to explore without being concerned much about AI. Eventually, I should be able to make it through any dungeon I wish to explore... if it's just AI. That's not really possible with Human player characters. Human player characters do not have a tether, for instance. And... it's not really about whether or not I defeat the would-be PKer. The issue is that I don't want to be involved in PvP when all I really want to do is explore and possibly gather. And, when I'm exploring somewhere and some asshat PKer on a PvP-Optional server tells me, "Why are you here and flagged for PvP if you don't want to PvP??!!" I rage-quit and move to a PvE-Only server. Even though I like PvP-sometimes. I really don't like playing on the same servers as PvPers, but... Supposedly, Corruption is supposed to make that feel OK. And I'm open-minded enough to say..."OK. Let's see..." But, permanent zones with no Corruption is an automatic deal-breaker for me. That's really more of a hardcore v casual thing. I am a casual challenge, non-competitive player. I sometimes like PvP to defend a town (or Caravan) for about 1 hour of an 8 hour play session. After that hour, I'm going to want to spend the rest of my time exploring, maybe gathering, maybe hunting some mobs. And, Corruption would have to be enough of a deterrent for PKing that I am rarely PKed during that 7 hour period where I am not in the mood for PvP. Has nothing to do with defeat and everything to do with other players forcing me into a mode of gameplay I'm not in the mood for. Doesn't matter to me whether I win or lose the PvP battle. You know... other players cannot make me Craft when I don't want to, so they should not be able to make me PvP when I don't want to.
Strevi wrote: » What if before reaching those unique bosses, you have to defeat some other bosses and they prove to be too difficult for you? Basically you might never even pass beyond 30% of the dungeon. Is it the knowledge that a human controlled rather than an AI controlled character defeated you bothers you?
Depraved wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Strevi wrote: » What if before reaching those unique bosses, you have to defeat some other bosses and they prove to be too difficult for you? Basically you might never even pass beyond 30% of the dungeon. Is it the knowledge that a human controlled rather than an AI controlled character defeated you bothers you? Human players are more ruthless and conniving than AI. And I'm confident that I can Stealth past AI and sufficiently avoid combat with AI as I explore areas. For the most part, I can explore the areas I want to explore without being concerned much about AI. Eventually, I should be able to make it through any dungeon I wish to explore... if it's just AI. That's not really possible with Human player characters. Human player characters do not have a tether, for instance. And... it's not really about whether or not I defeat the would-be PKer. The issue is that I don't want to be involved in PvP when all I really want to do is explore and possibly gather. And, when I'm exploring somewhere and some asshat PKer on a PvP-Optional server tells me, "Why are you here and flagged for PvP if you don't want to PvP??!!" I rage-quit and move to a PvE-Only server. Even though I like PvP-sometimes. I really don't like playing on the same servers as PvPers, but... Supposedly, Corruption is supposed to make that feel OK. And I'm open-minded enough to say..."OK. Let's see..." But, permanent zones with no Corruption is an automatic deal-breaker for me. That's really more of a hardcore v casual thing. I am a casual challenge, non-competitive player. I sometimes like PvP to defend a town (or Caravan) for about 1 hour of an 8 hour play session. After that hour, I'm going to want to spend the rest of my time exploring, maybe gathering, maybe hunting some mobs. And, Corruption would have to be enough of a deterrent for PKing that I am rarely PKed during that 7 hour period where I am not in the mood for PvP. Has nothing to do with defeat and everything to do with other players forcing me into a mode of gameplay I'm not in the mood for. Doesn't matter to me whether I win or lose the PvP battle. You know... other players cannot make me Craft when I don't want to, so they should not be able to make me PvP when I don't want to. just out of curiosity. 1- what do you do after you completely explore a map in a game? 2- if you like gathering, why is it different if you gather t5 mats or t1 mats? since t1 mats will still be useful, you can gather t1 mats and sell them to buy t5 mats, at basically no risk of someone killing you in a low level area, even a high level player since he wont be able to cleanse the corruption killing low level monsters. at the end of the day, you are pressing E on a game object, wether it is an iron ore, silver ore, a tree, a plant, etc. 3- what do you do if you are trying to kill a monster and another player starts healing the monster or buffing it? or aggroing it and resetting it? how do you deal with that in a pve server? 4- what do you do if you are trying to gather some stuff and another player mob drops you and kills you or interrupts your gathering and you can never finish mining the ore or harvest the plant? how do you deal with that in a pve server. 5- why does it matter if the open seas are auto flagged? you can still explore them with your guildmates, friends, etc. you probably wont be attacked too much since other players might not want to get their ship damaged. you could also stay near the shore in the pve area and just buy whatever loot you arent getting from the open seas from another player. or are you planning to just sail all day? then you wouldnt be able to do other content.
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Strevi wrote: » What if before reaching those unique bosses, you have to defeat some other bosses and they prove to be too difficult for you? Basically you might never even pass beyond 30% of the dungeon. Is it the knowledge that a human controlled rather than an AI controlled character defeated you bothers you? Human players are more ruthless and conniving than AI. And I'm confident that I can Stealth past AI and sufficiently avoid combat with AI as I explore areas. For the most part, I can explore the areas I want to explore without being concerned much about AI. Eventually, I should be able to make it through any dungeon I wish to explore... if it's just AI. That's not really possible with Human player characters. Human player characters do not have a tether, for instance. And... it's not really about whether or not I defeat the would-be PKer. The issue is that I don't want to be involved in PvP when all I really want to do is explore and possibly gather. And, when I'm exploring somewhere and some asshat PKer on a PvP-Optional server tells me, "Why are you here and flagged for PvP if you don't want to PvP??!!" I rage-quit and move to a PvE-Only server. Even though I like PvP-sometimes. I really don't like playing on the same servers as PvPers, but... Supposedly, Corruption is supposed to make that feel OK. And I'm open-minded enough to say..."OK. Let's see..." But, permanent zones with no Corruption is an automatic deal-breaker for me. That's really more of a hardcore v casual thing. I am a casual challenge, non-competitive player. I sometimes like PvP to defend a town (or Caravan) for about 1 hour of an 8 hour play session. After that hour, I'm going to want to spend the rest of my time exploring, maybe gathering, maybe hunting some mobs. And, Corruption would have to be enough of a deterrent for PKing that I am rarely PKed during that 7 hour period where I am not in the mood for PvP. Has nothing to do with defeat and everything to do with other players forcing me into a mode of gameplay I'm not in the mood for. Doesn't matter to me whether I win or lose the PvP battle. You know... other players cannot make me Craft when I don't want to, so they should not be able to make me PvP when I don't want to. just out of curiosity. 1- what do you do after you completely explore a map in a game? 2- if you like gathering, why is it different if you gather t5 mats or t1 mats? since t1 mats will still be useful, you can gather t1 mats and sell them to buy t5 mats, at basically no risk of someone killing you in a low level area, even a high level player since he wont be able to cleanse the corruption killing low level monsters. at the end of the day, you are pressing E on a game object, wether it is an iron ore, silver ore, a tree, a plant, etc. 3- what do you do if you are trying to kill a monster and another player starts healing the monster or buffing it? or aggroing it and resetting it? how do you deal with that in a pve server? 4- what do you do if you are trying to gather some stuff and another player mob drops you and kills you or interrupts your gathering and you can never finish mining the ore or harvest the plant? how do you deal with that in a pve server. 5- why does it matter if the open seas are auto flagged? you can still explore them with your guildmates, friends, etc. you probably wont be attacked too much since other players might not want to get their ship damaged. you could also stay near the shore in the pve area and just buy whatever loot you arent getting from the open seas from another player. or are you planning to just sail all day? then you wouldnt be able to do other content. I'm going to assume you are a PvP player, because you seem to have totally missed the entiure point of playing a game in this post. Basically, your post here amounts to "why do you care about playing the game, why not just buy the stuff you would play the game to get?".
Depraved wrote: » ok so what would you do if you log in to play in a pve server or game, and you want to farm orchalcum ore, but theres only a few nodes since its a t5 resource and theres like 34757455 players camping each node respawn. would you stay there and get 1 node every 10 mins or go farm another resource, sell it and buy the orichalcum?
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » ok so what would you do if you log in to play in a pve server or game, and you want to farm orchalcum ore, but theres only a few nodes since its a t5 resource and theres like 34757455 players camping each node respawn. would you stay there and get 1 node every 10 mins or go farm another resource, sell it and buy the orichalcum? What I would do is play a game that didn't have shit developers. If you are going to give a hypothetical, give one that is at least reasonable, ideally even plausible.
I'm going to go on record though as saying I don't think you have played much in the way of PvE games. This is because you are doing the thing that all PvP players do - assuming PvE is just PvP but without the ability to attack other players. In a PvE game, developers don't just put resources in the game like that and leave players to fight over them (at least, not good developers).
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » ok so what would you do if you log in to play in a pve server or game, and you want to farm orchalcum ore, but theres only a few nodes since its a t5 resource and theres like 34757455 players camping each node respawn. would you stay there and get 1 node every 10 mins or go farm another resource, sell it and buy the orichalcum? What I would do is play a game that didn't have shit developers. If you are going to give a hypothetical, give one that is at least reasonable, ideally even plausible. I'm going to go on record though as saying I don't think you have played much in the way of PvE games. This is because you are doing the thing that all PvP players do - assuming PvE is just PvP but without the ability to attack other players. In a PvE game, developers don't just put resources in the game like that and leave players to fight over them (at least, not good developers).
Noaani wrote: » If you are going to give a hypothetical, give one that is at least reasonable, ideally even plausible
Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » ok so what would you do if you log in to play in a pve server or game, and you want to farm orchalcum ore, but theres only a few nodes since its a t5 resource and theres like 34757455 players camping each node respawn. would you stay there and get 1 node every 10 mins or go farm another resource, sell it and buy the orichalcum? What I would do is play a game that didn't have shit developers. If you are going to give a hypothetical, give one that is at least reasonable, ideally even plausible. what do you even mean by that? so you are telling me if you want to acquire an item(s) that costs 10,000, but it will take you 30 hours to farm, and you have the option to farm 1000 per hour or 4000 per hour gathering something else, you would still go for the 30 hours farm? thats not even a hypothetical scenario, thats very common in mmorpg. you want to try and farm what gives you the most gold per hour, not the least gold per hour. i dont know of any player who would even pick the 1000 hour route, given he knows about the 4000 per hours route.
ok so what would you do if you log in to play in a pve server or game, and you want to farm orchalcum ore, but theres only a few nodes since its a t5 resource and theres like 34757455 players camping each node respawn.
NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » If you are going to give a hypothetical, give one that is at least reasonable, ideally even plausible Here's an example of what he's saying directly from L2. There's a BiS set for mages. Its pieces can drop from a few bosses (with a good chunk of those being epic ones that have 2-7 day respawns, and all others having 24+-3h ones) and they can also be crafted. You need mats and recipes to craft them. And while mats have a few locations that you can farm, recipes come from literally 1 kind of a mob (it's 3 mobs but they come as a group and have a shared respawn). And the chance to drop the recipe is abysmal This group of mobs has 3 spawn location in the entire game. Literally every mage on the server would be trying to get this recipe for themselves. And there's several examples for this kind of interaction. Bosses are controlled by bigger guilds or have fucked up respawn times and mobs are so sought after that you'd have to fight dozens of players to even get a chance to get the loot from the mob, let alone dropping the recipe itself. You'll obviously just call this bad design, but that's a real example of what Depraved was talking about.
