PvE Server

How does a PvE server hurt the game exactly?

If you want open world PvP you just play on a PvP server.

The game can be designed the exact same way and nothing needs to change other than on a PvE server, open world PvP is just disabled. You'd still have areas where PvP is enabled, just not the entire map.

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Voxtrium

no.

Lust69

The game is designed around pvp it literally wouldn’t work it’s not a case of choose to have no pvp the mechanics wouldn’t work without it.

Arya_Yeshe

go play a zen garden game if you want anything full pve

Cat Quiver

wrms

I'm going to play on a pvp server either way, but I don't understand the vitriol against the idea of pve servers. If you're going to play on a pvp server it literally won't affect you at all that they exist. The game mechanics would work just fine without open world pvp. It wont have as competitive of an economy, and it will probably be less exciting, but some people would prefer it and that's fine. The kind of people who want to play on a pve server wont last in AoC as it stands anyways so it isn't going to affect population.

Like I said I'm not going to play on a pve server even if they exist but some people seem way too angry about the idea. If adding pve servers helped the game keep more players and be more successful so that we can get more expansions, I'm all for it. It's not going to affect me at all.

Andy

The famous "How does it hurt the game" and the "Don't like it don't chose/use it"

The game is designed around WPvP. How do you plan to compete for dungeons/world boss/ressources in PvE servers ?

God, modern players are used to fully instanced themepark so they don't really understand how sandbox MMORPGs are working.

worddog2

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

go play a zen garden game if you want anything full pve

I'll be playing on a PvP server, thanks for not reading the post.

worddog2

Lust69 wrote: »

The game is designed around pvp it literally wouldn’t work it’s not a case of choose to have no pvp the mechanics wouldn’t work without it.

You still have PvP on PvE servers. Read the post again.

wrms

They will compete like they do on every pve mmo. Yea it will probably suck if you're not in a big guild and cant win a dps race for a boss, but again, you won't be playing there, so why does it offend you so much? Some players would rather deal with that than with pvp.

worddog2

Andy wrote: »

The famous "How does it hurt the game" and the "Don't like it don't chose/use it"

The game is designed around WPvP. How do you plan to compete for dungeons/world boss/ressources in PvE servers ?

God, modern players are used to fully instanced themepark so they don't really understand how sandbox MMORPGs are working.

Why are there any safe zones at all? Why isn't PvP enabled 100% of the time? Why can't my guild mass murder people in cities?

Azherae

worddog wrote: »

Andy wrote: »

The famous "How does it hurt the game" and the "Don't like it don't chose/use it"

The game is designed around WPvP. How do you plan to compete for dungeons/world boss/ressources in PvE servers ?

God, modern players are used to fully instanced themepark so they don't really understand how sandbox MMORPGs are working.

Why are there any safe zones at all? Why isn't PvP enabled 100% of the time? Why can't my guild mass murder people in cities?

Your guild CAN do that.

Nothing stops them now.

worddog2

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Andy wrote: »

The famous "How does it hurt the game" and the "Don't like it don't chose/use it"

The game is designed around WPvP. How do you plan to compete for dungeons/world boss/ressources in PvE servers ?

God, modern players are used to fully instanced themepark so they don't really understand how sandbox MMORPGs are working.

Why are there any safe zones at all? Why isn't PvP enabled 100% of the time? Why can't my guild mass murder people in cities?

Your guild CAN do that.

Nothing stops them now.

You need to siege a city to remove the safe zones, has that been changed?

Azherae

worddog wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Andy wrote: »

The famous "How does it hurt the game" and the "Don't like it don't chose/use it"

The game is designed around WPvP. How do you plan to compete for dungeons/world boss/ressources in PvE servers ?

God, modern players are used to fully instanced themepark so they don't really understand how sandbox MMORPGs are working.

Why are there any safe zones at all? Why isn't PvP enabled 100% of the time? Why can't my guild mass murder people in cities?

Your guild CAN do that.

Nothing stops them now.

You need to siege a city to remove the safe zones, has that been changed?

What safe zones? Did something change?

Cities haven't ever had safe zones, have they? Do you have a Wiki reference for this, or do I need to go look for it? (I don't mind looking, but if it's NOT there it obviously would take hours to confirm that unless there is a clear counter-statement)

EDIT: Ok I found what you conflated.

Safe Zones: Your OWN Player stall while selling, your OWN Freehold (which is outside the city, one per account, must be earned).

Strevi

My recent post fits here too:

I think is better to have the PvP and PvE players on the same server.

Having PvE servers would force the developers to create content in a different way and try to be competitive with all the other great PvE mmos who focus on them as main audience. The rules of what make a PvE mmo good are dictated by a different audience and the developers who know how to milk them.
The difference will not be just how the corruption is balanced.
Caravan system will most likely fall apart.
Sieges which destroy their homes will make no sense for them either. You do not attract PvE players with great content and still letting PvP sieges in game. NPC sieges maybe but tuned down so that players can still defend the node easily.
Then you end up with a different game as I do not see a team of developers making PvE servers competitive with other MMOs and then keeping and working on the PvP game vision too.

Then let's see what the mindset of those PvE players would be. What do they want?
Is it obtaining the high level gear the purpose?
To help them feel that they work on their objective of acquiring that and not wasting time running on the map, the AoC devs should add fast travel, ways to find a team with random players fast, even from other servers. Without PvP sieges, not having cross-realm interaction would be illogical. Why make player owned nodes if they do not fight each-other?
Those cause all the problems with the server merges. PvE players have absolutely no reason to accept separate servers and forced server merges with all the consequences upon the market and guilds.
Separate servers also prevent friends playing together if one starts later on an open server.

AoC has the challenge that it tries to attract PvE players who still search for that PvE mindset: the purpose of what they do.
And whatever their purpose is when they login, if the PvP-er can prevent them, is bad.

AoC must highlight more on selling that it offers the game-play and not the traditional objectives PvE-ers get in other games

To get people to interact with each other meaningfully – not just to conquer a raid boss, or to get some coin from a faceless auction house, but to maybe save a city. A city that all the local residents had a stake in. A city that the players had spent weeks or months developing the defense of that city, the attack on that city! Or building a world together as a community choosing our own fate with our friends. We believe that’s going to be a story far more memorable and far more meaningful to players than just about anything we can come up with.[19]

And this objective, of working together to save the city must bring together both PvP-ers and PvE-ers.
The corruption system feels not designed for this, because it mentions only green, purple and red and nothing about citizens of the same node.

When players see PvP they assume other players close to them will kill them.
And I assume that actually citizens will have a reason to protect each-other even if they are not in the same guild.
But I do not see much concern on PvP-er side about this on this forum. They are only concerned that they lose the PvP aspect. What is the objective of the PvP? To loot the other player?

If players want to be able to kill the citizens of their own node (for PvP reasons) or be able to harvest safely resources near another node (for PvE reasons), then I think the game fails to achieve it's main purpose and will face direct competition with the other MMOs more fiercely as it will not stand out from the crowd with anything specific.

BlackBrony

worddog wrote: »

Lust69 wrote: »

The game is designed around pvp it literally wouldn’t work it’s not a case of choose to have no pvp the mechanics wouldn’t work without it.

You still have PvP on PvE servers. Read the post again.

what about caravans? You get attacked but it's not consensual.

worddog2

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Andy wrote: »

The famous "How does it hurt the game" and the "Don't like it don't chose/use it"

The game is designed around WPvP. How do you plan to compete for dungeons/world boss/ressources in PvE servers ?

God, modern players are used to fully instanced themepark so they don't really understand how sandbox MMORPGs are working.

Why are there any safe zones at all? Why isn't PvP enabled 100% of the time? Why can't my guild mass murder people in cities?

Your guild CAN do that.

Nothing stops them now.

You need to siege a city to remove the safe zones, has that been changed?

What safe zones? Did something change?

Cities haven't ever had safe zones, have they? Do you have a Wiki reference for this, or do I need to go look for it? (I don't mind looking, but if it's NOT there it obviously would take hours to confirm that unless there is a clear counter-statement)

EDIT: Ok I found what you conflated.

Safe Zones: Your OWN Player stall while selling, your OWN Freehold (which is outside the city, one per account, must be earned).

Steven has explicitly talked about the existence of safe zones not in relation to player stalls or freeholds. So I'm assuming the Wiki doesn't have all the information.

If we're really expecting Ashes to allow max level players to permanently spawn camp level 1 players, the game will objectively be unplayable.

Even if you want open world PvP, there will always be places that open world PvP is disabled. Unless you want the game to actually just die and only play with like a small community that likes that really niche idea.

Azherae

worddog wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Andy wrote: »

The famous "How does it hurt the game" and the "Don't like it don't chose/use it"

The game is designed around WPvP. How do you plan to compete for dungeons/world boss/ressources in PvE servers ?

God, modern players are used to fully instanced themepark so they don't really understand how sandbox MMORPGs are working.

Why are there any safe zones at all? Why isn't PvP enabled 100% of the time? Why can't my guild mass murder people in cities?

Your guild CAN do that.

Nothing stops them now.

You need to siege a city to remove the safe zones, has that been changed?

What safe zones? Did something change?

Cities haven't ever had safe zones, have they? Do you have a Wiki reference for this, or do I need to go look for it? (I don't mind looking, but if it's NOT there it obviously would take hours to confirm that unless there is a clear counter-statement)

EDIT: Ok I found what you conflated.

Safe Zones: Your OWN Player stall while selling, your OWN Freehold (which is outside the city, one per account, must be earned).

Steven has explicitly talked about the existence of safe zones not in relation to player stalls or freeholds. So I'm assuming the Wiki doesn't have all the information.

If we're really expecting Ashes to allow max level players to permanently spawn camp level 1 players, the game will objectively be unplayable.

Even if you want open world PvP, there will always be places that open world PvP is disabled. Unless you want the game to actually just die and only play with like a small community that likes that really niche idea.

I'm just saying I would be glad to know what you mean/what quote you are referring to.

I have never heard it, that's all. So I go with what exists in the game and what we were able to do in Alpha-1 and in Alpha-1 you could kill people in cities. If your point was about 'Safe Zones in general' I understand. But cities are NORMALLY Safe Zones (and I consider this realistic personally for lots of reasons so even as a PvP player I would not mind it, I'd personally just make it so that flagging in a city makes you instantly Red).

To 'make it so Nodes aren't safe zones', to the point where you have to SPECIFY 'you can't be attacked in a city WHILE in your stall', seems intentional to me, so I would like to know what counterpoint, if any, Steven has ever said.

worddog2

BlackBrony wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Lust69 wrote: »

The game is designed around pvp it literally wouldn’t work it’s not a case of choose to have no pvp the mechanics wouldn’t work without it.

You still have PvP on PvE servers. Read the post again.

what about caravans? You get attacked but it's not consensual.

Caravans are optional, so you'd have to consent to PvP to start a caravan route. Some things would of course require PvP like caravans and sieges. PvE players still enjoy PvP just as much as people on PvP servers, they just don't enjoy being level 10 and getting spawn camped by a max level player for 6 hours.

worddog2

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Andy wrote: »

The famous "How does it hurt the game" and the "Don't like it don't chose/use it"

The game is designed around WPvP. How do you plan to compete for dungeons/world boss/ressources in PvE servers ?

God, modern players are used to fully instanced themepark so they don't really understand how sandbox MMORPGs are working.

Why are there any safe zones at all? Why isn't PvP enabled 100% of the time? Why can't my guild mass murder people in cities?

Your guild CAN do that.

Nothing stops them now.

You need to siege a city to remove the safe zones, has that been changed?

What safe zones? Did something change?

Cities haven't ever had safe zones, have they? Do you have a Wiki reference for this, or do I need to go look for it? (I don't mind looking, but if it's NOT there it obviously would take hours to confirm that unless there is a clear counter-statement)

EDIT: Ok I found what you conflated.

Safe Zones: Your OWN Player stall while selling, your OWN Freehold (which is outside the city, one per account, must be earned).

Steven has explicitly talked about the existence of safe zones not in relation to player stalls or freeholds. So I'm assuming the Wiki doesn't have all the information.

If we're really expecting Ashes to allow max level players to permanently spawn camp level 1 players, the game will objectively be unplayable.

Even if you want open world PvP, there will always be places that open world PvP is disabled. Unless you want the game to actually just die and only play with like a small community that likes that really niche idea.

I'm just saying I would be glad to know what you mean/what quote you are referring to.

I have never heard it, that's all. So I go with what exists in the game and what we were able to do in Alpha-1 and in Alpha-1 you could kill people in cities. If your point was about 'Safe Zones in general' I understand. But cities are NORMALLY Safe Zones (and I consider this realistic personally for lots of reasons so even as a PvP player I would not mind it, I'd personally just make it so that flagging in a city makes you instantly Red).

To 'make it so Nodes aren't safe zones', to the point where you have to SPECIFY 'you can't be attacked in a city WHILE in your stall', seems intentional to me, so I would like to know what counterpoint, if any, Steven has ever said.

The only things I've heard him say:

1. When a node is upgrading, players are teleported to a safe zone.
2. When a green/purple player dies they respawn in a safe zone.

Again, this is very vague and doesn't really mean much. But because he said safe zones exist, I just assumed they would want safe zones to be an important mechanic, and not just super specific things like player stalls.

My hope is that this game doesn't pointlessly throw away 80% of the player base for no reason. I'm sorry but if you like instantly dying to a max level player while you're trying to level, that really doesn't make you a better person or even a hardcore gamer. That is a very niche experience that few people value.

Azherae

worddog wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

Andy wrote: »

The famous "How does it hurt the game" and the "Don't like it don't chose/use it"

The game is designed around WPvP. How do you plan to compete for dungeons/world boss/ressources in PvE servers ?

God, modern players are used to fully instanced themepark so they don't really understand how sandbox MMORPGs are working.

Why are there any safe zones at all? Why isn't PvP enabled 100% of the time? Why can't my guild mass murder people in cities?

Your guild CAN do that.

Nothing stops them now.

You need to siege a city to remove the safe zones, has that been changed?

What safe zones? Did something change?

Cities haven't ever had safe zones, have they? Do you have a Wiki reference for this, or do I need to go look for it? (I don't mind looking, but if it's NOT there it obviously would take hours to confirm that unless there is a clear counter-statement)

EDIT: Ok I found what you conflated.

Safe Zones: Your OWN Player stall while selling, your OWN Freehold (which is outside the city, one per account, must be earned).

Steven has explicitly talked about the existence of safe zones not in relation to player stalls or freeholds. So I'm assuming the Wiki doesn't have all the information.

If we're really expecting Ashes to allow max level players to permanently spawn camp level 1 players, the game will objectively be unplayable.

Even if you want open world PvP, there will always be places that open world PvP is disabled. Unless you want the game to actually just die and only play with like a small community that likes that really niche idea.

I'm just saying I would be glad to know what you mean/what quote you are referring to.

I have never heard it, that's all. So I go with what exists in the game and what we were able to do in Alpha-1 and in Alpha-1 you could kill people in cities. If your point was about 'Safe Zones in general' I understand. But cities are NORMALLY Safe Zones (and I consider this realistic personally for lots of reasons so even as a PvP player I would not mind it, I'd personally just make it so that flagging in a city makes you instantly Red).

To 'make it so Nodes aren't safe zones', to the point where you have to SPECIFY 'you can't be attacked in a city WHILE in your stall', seems intentional to me, so I would like to know what counterpoint, if any, Steven has ever said.

The only things I've heard him say:

1. When a node is upgrading, players are teleported to a safe zone.
2. When a green/purple player dies they respawn in a safe zone.

Again, this is very vague and doesn't really mean much. But because he said safe zones exist, I just assumed they would want safe zones to be an important mechanic, and not just super specific things like player stalls.

My hope is that this game doesn't pointlessly throw away 80% of the player base for no reason. I'm sorry but if you like instantly dying to a max level player while you're trying to level, that really doesn't make you a better person or even a hardcore gamer. That is a very niche experience that few people value.

Yes, I'm aware, I don't necessarily agree with everything that Intrepid's designs lead to, either, I just want to make sure we're all giving feedback or 'arguing' from the correct stances.

So far we don't expect there to be many safe zones. I think we weren't even sure if Freeholds were actually going to be safe zones for a while. That's how rare the concept was.

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