NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » This is exactly what I would do, and what most of the other raid leaders I know would do. But the point of an open world dungeon is to have value to the content within the dungeon, not just the boss. Now I don't think we've gotten any detailed info on mob drops (especially in dungeons) and I don't know how it was designed in AA, but when Steven talked about his favorite dungeons in mmo the first one he mentioned was Lair of Antharas from L2. And there you'd have mobs that had valuable loot, you had several bosses that had good loot (iirc they were on a 24+-h respawn) and you had one of the biggest epic bosses in the game at the end of the dungeon with a week respawn (or maybe even bigger, I forget). And guilds would take up a few rooms to farm those mobs, they would check for bosses when their timers were coming up and they'd fight amongst themselves for the right to farm all of that. Unless there's gonna be some repeatable quest that provides you with the same kind of mats that mobs in AoC's dungeons drop - you'll most likely be farming those mobs to get those drops. Well, not necessarily YOU you, but the general you that is players who want said drop and have the time and capabilities to farm it instead of just buying it from others. That is what an open world dungeon means to me. If you guild is ok with visiting this kind of dungeon only once a week when an epic boss respawns at the end - that's totally fine. And if you manage to somehow farm several bosses on your way to the epic boss, even though their respawn timers will most likely be staggered by the other guilds who're contesting them - that's also cool. But imo, if Steven wants to have real open world pvp and "soft friction" between people - that's the kind of dungeon he'd need to have in his game, and I'm pretty sure he knows that. Because if all the open world dungeons are just a "go through it once and forget about it for a day or several" - the only friction between guilds would happen on caravan runs and maaaybe from killing innocent gatherers that were just minding their business.
Noaani wrote: » This is exactly what I would do, and what most of the other raid leaders I know would do.
Noaani wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Guilds would have to fight for those rooms, while having an opportunity to have a temporary truce or an alliance. Nope. Guilds would gather together 40 players (or 80), charge to the end of the dungeon, kill everyone and every thing, kill the boss and then leave. if you put 40 person content at the end of a dungeon in an open world game, expect raids of twice that to obliterate everything on their way to that content. This is exactly what I would do, and what most of the other raid leaders I know would do.
NiKr wrote: » Guilds would have to fight for those rooms, while having an opportunity to have a temporary truce or an alliance.
JamesSunderland wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Content will be tailored for 40, 16 and 8 person group sizes.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Group_dynamics Come on, you didn't even bothered reading the source/reference of that? Its not refering to Raid Bosses, its literally just content. Here is the source/reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/aomez2/february_8_2019_questions_and_answers/Q: Are you still aiming for 40-man raids? What other raid sizes will be available? Will loot tables differ based on the size of the group? A: We’re still playing around with sizes, but you can likely expect 40, 16 and 8 person sized content. We will be testing dynamic loot tables, but will have more of an idea on that during our test phases. Sure you may argue on the Raid bosses "boss category" the possibility of High/big(40 man), Medium(16 man)(mini bosses?) and Low/small(8 man)(Party Bosses?) "Raid bosses" but thats just beyond current knowledge and would require different respawn timers based on category.
Vyril wrote: » Content will be tailored for 40, 16 and 8 person group sizes.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Group_dynamics
Noaani wrote: » So, there is a disconnect here somewhere. We aren't just going in to the dungeon once, we are going in to the dungeon with the specific goal of killing the boss once. If there is a reason to be in that a dungeon other than said boss, then players in the guild will farm it as and when needed. However, when the boss is set to spawn, it is all hands working on killing it.
Vyril wrote: » That is exactly what I outlined.
akabear wrote: » NiKr perhaps the more recent game has short respawn times and/or private servers but I recall the spawn time for some of the important raid bosses occuring every 2, 4 weeks apart.. one I had to wait 3 months before a chance to finish a quest.
JamesSunderland wrote: » akabear NiKr Longest Respawn time back then was the Valakas respawn ~264 Hours(+/- 8Hours)(~11 days)
Vyril wrote: » JamesSunderland wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Content will be tailored for 40, 16 and 8 person group sizes.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Group_dynamics Come on, you didn't even bothered reading the source/reference of that? Its not refering to Raid Bosses, its literally just content. Here is the source/reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/aomez2/february_8_2019_questions_and_answers/Q: Are you still aiming for 40-man raids? What other raid sizes will be available? Will loot tables differ based on the size of the group? A: We’re still playing around with sizes, but you can likely expect 40, 16 and 8 person sized content. We will be testing dynamic loot tables, but will have more of an idea on that during our test phases. Sure you may argue on the Raid bosses "boss category" the possibility of High/big(40 man), Medium(16 man)(mini bosses?) and Low/small(8 man)(Party Bosses?) "Raid bosses" but thats just beyond current knowledge and would require different respawn timers based on category. That is exactly what I outlined.
JamesSunderland wrote: » Vyril wrote: » JamesSunderland wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Content will be tailored for 40, 16 and 8 person group sizes.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Group_dynamics Come on, you didn't even bothered reading the source/reference of that? Its not refering to Raid Bosses, its literally just content. Here is the source/reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/aomez2/february_8_2019_questions_and_answers/Q: Are you still aiming for 40-man raids? What other raid sizes will be available? Will loot tables differ based on the size of the group? A: We’re still playing around with sizes, but you can likely expect 40, 16 and 8 person sized content. We will be testing dynamic loot tables, but will have more of an idea on that during our test phases. Sure you may argue on the Raid bosses "boss category" the possibility of High/big(40 man), Medium(16 man)(mini bosses?) and Low/small(8 man)(Party Bosses?) "Raid bosses" but thats just beyond current knowledge and would require different respawn timers based on category. That is exactly what I outlined. It didn't seemed so but alright. Lets hope those other bosses categories gets confirmed and we get reasonable respawn timers.
Mag7spy wrote: » JamesSunderland wrote: » Vyril wrote: » JamesSunderland wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Content will be tailored for 40, 16 and 8 person group sizes.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Group_dynamics Come on, you didn't even bothered reading the source/reference of that? Its not refering to Raid Bosses, its literally just content. Here is the source/reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/aomez2/february_8_2019_questions_and_answers/Q: Are you still aiming for 40-man raids? What other raid sizes will be available? Will loot tables differ based on the size of the group? A: We’re still playing around with sizes, but you can likely expect 40, 16 and 8 person sized content. We will be testing dynamic loot tables, but will have more of an idea on that during our test phases. Sure you may argue on the Raid bosses "boss category" the possibility of High/big(40 man), Medium(16 man)(mini bosses?) and Low/small(8 man)(Party Bosses?) "Raid bosses" but thats just beyond current knowledge and would require different respawn timers based on category. That is exactly what I outlined. It didn't seemed so but alright. Lets hope those other bosses categories gets confirmed and we get reasonable respawn timers. What is the L2 map size compared to AoC?
JamesSunderland wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » JamesSunderland wrote: » Vyril wrote: » JamesSunderland wrote: » Vyril wrote: » Content will be tailored for 40, 16 and 8 person group sizes.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Group_dynamics Come on, you didn't even bothered reading the source/reference of that? Its not refering to Raid Bosses, its literally just content. Here is the source/reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/aomez2/february_8_2019_questions_and_answers/Q: Are you still aiming for 40-man raids? What other raid sizes will be available? Will loot tables differ based on the size of the group? A: We’re still playing around with sizes, but you can likely expect 40, 16 and 8 person sized content. We will be testing dynamic loot tables, but will have more of an idea on that during our test phases. Sure you may argue on the Raid bosses "boss category" the possibility of High/big(40 man), Medium(16 man)(mini bosses?) and Low/small(8 man)(Party Bosses?) "Raid bosses" but thats just beyond current knowledge and would require different respawn timers based on category. That is exactly what I outlined. It didn't seemed so but alright. Lets hope those other bosses categories gets confirmed and we get reasonable respawn timers. What is the L2 map size compared to AoC? It's hard to tell, we don't have something like an official number, but Lineage 2 map was certainly one of the biggest ones out there, for example, it is bigger than WoW's map which is supposed to be around ~207km² but i believe Archeage(~600 km²) to be bigger than lineage 2 Map, so L2 Map is probably around ~400 km²? AOC is expected to be 1,200 km² so ~2x Archeage size and ~3x Lineage 2 size.
Mag7spy wrote: » IF there is ever a point where bosses are all dead and its hard to ever get one since you have to wait for them to spawn and they take forever, people will start to look at it as more just a pvp game than a PvX game.
Spif wrote: » If you go back to DAoC, all dungeons were open world, and they were mostly filled with camp spots. IE, you camp in a specific spot kill a few spawns in rotation getting drops and XP. Maybe you check to see if a named mob was up every once in a while, and you went to kill him. Personally, I think places like this should drop key fragments. Collect enough, make key, get access to boss for your group only. This becomes an instanced fight. But...key fragments drop on death according to the same rules as gatherables.
Depraved wrote: » there were open world dungeons with a boss at the end of the dungeon, where people could come in and out as they pleased. no players limit. however, some dungeons required you to do a quest to enter the boss room, and once the boss was awaken, nobody else could come inside. i suspect aoc will be similar for raid content. you can be in the dungeon farming etc, but once the boss spawns, only a certain number of people will be able to go in, aka the 8, 16, 40 men groups or raid. so whoever gets in there first locks everybody out, even their own guildmembers, once the palyer limit has been reached
NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » So, there is a disconnect here somewhere. We aren't just going in to the dungeon once, we are going in to the dungeon with the specific goal of killing the boss once. If there is a reason to be in that a dungeon other than said boss, then players in the guild will farm it as and when needed. However, when the boss is set to spawn, it is all hands working on killing it. Yes, I guess we (or maybe just me) got lost somewhere in the discussion. And, yes, you and most other guilds would send as many people as possible to secure the boss kill. And it'll be on Intrepid to properly limit the ability of players to do that, or at least to benefit from bringing all those people to the boss. Sorry for the delayed response. My lights went out
