worddog wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » worddog wrote: » Voxtrium wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP. Okay technically there would be millions of encounters if you took 64 classes + augments to the probably hundreds of bosses and dozens of legendary raids, but you are absolutely wrong, no matter how many PVP encounters you have, they will never be the same, ~40ish abilities for 8 classes, add in augments, make it 8v8 what AOC is balancing the game around (therefore expecting the standard encounter to be) and you already have a greater number of potential variations, more importantly, a boss or raid, is only code, it will never truly change, it might randomize ability sets, scale based on dps or other things, but it will not change. You wanna 8vX me? You will never have the same fight twice, purely because humans can LEARN, PVE does not have the ability to match human interactions sure PVE difficulty can scale based on code, but it doesn't fluctuate when players have an off day or a good day, nor does it adapt during the middle of the fight based off the enemy, sure a boss can change if you cast a certain ability, but the boss won't strafe a different way based on skill shots cast. Stop saying PVE has more variety, its just short sighted. Wanna know why it takes a superconductor days to map a way to win in strategy games vs humans, because it has to map billions of strategies, and those test have been done with games that have 5-10 mechanics, imagine a game like AOC with hundreds of mechanics, it would take months to map out enough possibilities to match a human. Games with limited interactions (chess) cannot apply here as there is a finite number of possibilities, unlike a player to player interaction. It is why mobas have millions of players running 1000's of hours on them on the same map day in day out. Is that why you like PvP? I've never viewed PvP as the more "interested and varied" game format. Isn't the entire point of PvP competition? There really isn't that much variation between PvP fights, it always comes down to who played closer to perfection. PvP is about doing the right thing faster than the other person. PvE is more interesting and varied because bosses and NPC enemies don't have to be balanced to be equal to the player. They can have crazy massive abilities and stats. PvP is awesome, but it's literally the most repetitive game type. You are mixing up pvp with PvE. Nothing is more repetitive than PvE. Players adapt and change meaning PvP is the least kind of repetitive content and shown in games for decades being so. If you haven't done high tier player vrs player you are to young in the genre to seen the full depth of how things go. Meaning you have plenty more pvp content to experience if you can get there. I've played at the highest ranks in PvP games. I was LE and played with Global Elites in CS:GO, I was Masters in SC2, and in Lost Ark I was top 500 and I would've been at least top 200 if I didn't quit the game. Sure there are obviously better players than me, but when they beat me it wasn't some kind of crazy new mechanic or interesting strategy. They were literally just faster. The most important thing in high level PvP is reaction time and apm. The game is actually more interesting in low level PvP because that's where people actually try new things. At high level everyone is doing the same few things that are proven to work better than everything else. It's repetitive but fun because you can compete to see who is the best.
Mag7spy wrote: » worddog wrote: » Voxtrium wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP. Okay technically there would be millions of encounters if you took 64 classes + augments to the probably hundreds of bosses and dozens of legendary raids, but you are absolutely wrong, no matter how many PVP encounters you have, they will never be the same, ~40ish abilities for 8 classes, add in augments, make it 8v8 what AOC is balancing the game around (therefore expecting the standard encounter to be) and you already have a greater number of potential variations, more importantly, a boss or raid, is only code, it will never truly change, it might randomize ability sets, scale based on dps or other things, but it will not change. You wanna 8vX me? You will never have the same fight twice, purely because humans can LEARN, PVE does not have the ability to match human interactions sure PVE difficulty can scale based on code, but it doesn't fluctuate when players have an off day or a good day, nor does it adapt during the middle of the fight based off the enemy, sure a boss can change if you cast a certain ability, but the boss won't strafe a different way based on skill shots cast. Stop saying PVE has more variety, its just short sighted. Wanna know why it takes a superconductor days to map a way to win in strategy games vs humans, because it has to map billions of strategies, and those test have been done with games that have 5-10 mechanics, imagine a game like AOC with hundreds of mechanics, it would take months to map out enough possibilities to match a human. Games with limited interactions (chess) cannot apply here as there is a finite number of possibilities, unlike a player to player interaction. It is why mobas have millions of players running 1000's of hours on them on the same map day in day out. Is that why you like PvP? I've never viewed PvP as the more "interested and varied" game format. Isn't the entire point of PvP competition? There really isn't that much variation between PvP fights, it always comes down to who played closer to perfection. PvP is about doing the right thing faster than the other person. PvE is more interesting and varied because bosses and NPC enemies don't have to be balanced to be equal to the player. They can have crazy massive abilities and stats. PvP is awesome, but it's literally the most repetitive game type. You are mixing up pvp with PvE. Nothing is more repetitive than PvE. Players adapt and change meaning PvP is the least kind of repetitive content and shown in games for decades being so. If you haven't done high tier player vrs player you are to young in the genre to seen the full depth of how things go. Meaning you have plenty more pvp content to experience if you can get there.
worddog wrote: » Voxtrium wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP. Okay technically there would be millions of encounters if you took 64 classes + augments to the probably hundreds of bosses and dozens of legendary raids, but you are absolutely wrong, no matter how many PVP encounters you have, they will never be the same, ~40ish abilities for 8 classes, add in augments, make it 8v8 what AOC is balancing the game around (therefore expecting the standard encounter to be) and you already have a greater number of potential variations, more importantly, a boss or raid, is only code, it will never truly change, it might randomize ability sets, scale based on dps or other things, but it will not change. You wanna 8vX me? You will never have the same fight twice, purely because humans can LEARN, PVE does not have the ability to match human interactions sure PVE difficulty can scale based on code, but it doesn't fluctuate when players have an off day or a good day, nor does it adapt during the middle of the fight based off the enemy, sure a boss can change if you cast a certain ability, but the boss won't strafe a different way based on skill shots cast. Stop saying PVE has more variety, its just short sighted. Wanna know why it takes a superconductor days to map a way to win in strategy games vs humans, because it has to map billions of strategies, and those test have been done with games that have 5-10 mechanics, imagine a game like AOC with hundreds of mechanics, it would take months to map out enough possibilities to match a human. Games with limited interactions (chess) cannot apply here as there is a finite number of possibilities, unlike a player to player interaction. It is why mobas have millions of players running 1000's of hours on them on the same map day in day out. Is that why you like PvP? I've never viewed PvP as the more "interested and varied" game format. Isn't the entire point of PvP competition? There really isn't that much variation between PvP fights, it always comes down to who played closer to perfection. PvP is about doing the right thing faster than the other person. PvE is more interesting and varied because bosses and NPC enemies don't have to be balanced to be equal to the player. They can have crazy massive abilities and stats. PvP is awesome, but it's literally the most repetitive game type.
Voxtrium wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP. Okay technically there would be millions of encounters if you took 64 classes + augments to the probably hundreds of bosses and dozens of legendary raids, but you are absolutely wrong, no matter how many PVP encounters you have, they will never be the same, ~40ish abilities for 8 classes, add in augments, make it 8v8 what AOC is balancing the game around (therefore expecting the standard encounter to be) and you already have a greater number of potential variations, more importantly, a boss or raid, is only code, it will never truly change, it might randomize ability sets, scale based on dps or other things, but it will not change. You wanna 8vX me? You will never have the same fight twice, purely because humans can LEARN, PVE does not have the ability to match human interactions sure PVE difficulty can scale based on code, but it doesn't fluctuate when players have an off day or a good day, nor does it adapt during the middle of the fight based off the enemy, sure a boss can change if you cast a certain ability, but the boss won't strafe a different way based on skill shots cast. Stop saying PVE has more variety, its just short sighted. Wanna know why it takes a superconductor days to map a way to win in strategy games vs humans, because it has to map billions of strategies, and those test have been done with games that have 5-10 mechanics, imagine a game like AOC with hundreds of mechanics, it would take months to map out enough possibilities to match a human. Games with limited interactions (chess) cannot apply here as there is a finite number of possibilities, unlike a player to player interaction. It is why mobas have millions of players running 1000's of hours on them on the same map day in day out.
Noaani wrote: » Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP.
worddog wrote: » I mean we'll all play the game. It's just a matter of how many months.
Noaani wrote: » Since the primary purpose of the ocean is likely to be trade, they are not likely to put in mobs like you are talking about.'
Lust69 wrote: » Imagine this game was released without the sea area being accessible would you still play it? If so just pretend the sea area doesn’t exist. I’m sure the content in the sea isn’t needed to play this game.
Abarat wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Since the primary purpose of the ocean is likely to be trade, they are not likely to put in mobs like you are talking about.' You may have the most forum posts, but i think you pretty regularly just make things up.
Noaani wrote: » Abarat wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Since the primary purpose of the ocean is likely to be trade, they are not likely to put in mobs like you are talking about.' You may have the most forum posts, but i think you pretty regularly just make things up. While I may have the most posts here, it seems I also have the most replies to posts where people haven't read said post. I didnt say the ocean wont have raid encounters - in fact if you actually bothered to read the post before replying to it (or bothered reading the post I was replying to), you would see that I specifically said what kind of raid encounters I expect to see in the ocean. The bosses I do not expect to see in the ocean are ones that will hunt after players (it's literally right in the quote I was replying to). So, after saying I dont expect raid bosses in the ocean to hunt players, and then saying what i do expect from raid bosses in the ocean, what is the point of you "calling me out" by showing a picture of an ocean boss that would fit the bill perfectly of one of the encounters I said I expect to see? Or did you only get two sentences through the post, not understand the context, get all excited that you thought you had some means of catching me out and rushed to post it without actually understanding what I had said? I mean, either way, you literally just quoted a post where I said what raid encounters I expect to see in the ocean, said I have no idea what I am talking about, and posted a picture of one of the raid encounters I just said I expect to see as proof (for those paying attention, the above mob is what I expect to be a roaming ocean boss akin to Archeages Leviathan).
Spif wrote: » I don't think that world bosses will be the only source of BiS crafting mats. PvE raids (the time gates ones) will likely have a chance for them too, and there should be other sources (PvP arena ranking giving weekly rewards maybe) But killing world boss will give you another chance at them, gearing you up faster.
Spif wrote: » World bosses as a driver of PvP needs to have relatively quick spawns or set/announced spawn times considering that travel times are going to mean something in this game.
Abarat wrote: » I have always thought the intention was to surprise the players/make them unpredictable and let the team that had the best communication/mobilization win the day. I think that is the point of the events system, and everything.
Liniker wrote: » I know many PvP players that get disappointed when they find out that the best gear comes from doing Raids and Dungeons (matt drops) and crafting They wanted to do PvP and farm points to buy a PvP set, like in other PvP games, but they can't, they need to do PvE
Voxtrium wrote: » seriously?
I've played at the highest ranks in PvP games. I was LE and played with Global Elites in CS:GO, I was Masters in SC2, and in Lost Ark I was top 500 and I would've been at least top 200 if I didn't quit the game. Sure there are obviously better players than me, but when they beat me it wasn't some kind of crazy new mechanic or interesting strategy. They were literally just faster. The most important thing in high level PvP is reaction time and apm. The game is actually more interesting in low level PvP because that's where people actually try new things. At high level everyone is doing the same few things that are proven to work better than everything else. It's repetitive but fun because you can compete to see who is the best.
Abarat wrote: » The PvX in my opinion is that they are intertwined.. you will have to deal with pve mobs while pvping and you will have to deal with hostile players sometimes while pveing.
Dygz wrote: » Abarat wrote: » The PvX in my opinion is that they are intertwined.. you will have to deal with pve mobs while pvping and you will have to deal with hostile players sometimes while pveing. Well, I might agree without a permanent zone that auto-flags people as a Combatant. If everyone is auto-flagged as a Combatant, that's a PvP-centric game. And then, from the PvEer perspective, PvX becomes irrelevant.
Abarat wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Abarat wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Since the primary purpose of the ocean is likely to be trade, they are not likely to put in mobs like you are talking about.' You may have the most forum posts, but i think you pretty regularly just make things up. While I may have the most posts here, it seems I also have the most replies to posts where people haven't read said post. I didnt say the ocean wont have raid encounters - in fact if you actually bothered to read the post before replying to it (or bothered reading the post I was replying to), you would see that I specifically said what kind of raid encounters I expect to see in the ocean. The bosses I do not expect to see in the ocean are ones that will hunt after players (it's literally right in the quote I was replying to). So, after saying I dont expect raid bosses in the ocean to hunt players, and then saying what i do expect from raid bosses in the ocean, what is the point of you "calling me out" by showing a picture of an ocean boss that would fit the bill perfectly of one of the encounters I said I expect to see? Or did you only get two sentences through the post, not understand the context, get all excited that you thought you had some means of catching me out and rushed to post it without actually understanding what I had said? I mean, either way, you literally just quoted a post where I said what raid encounters I expect to see in the ocean, said I have no idea what I am talking about, and posted a picture of one of the raid encounters I just said I expect to see as proof (for those paying attention, the above mob is what I expect to be a roaming ocean boss akin to Archeages Leviathan). That is clearly also made up.
Noaani wrote: » then there were exactly two raid mobs on set spawn timers in set locations (one of which had a set path, the other was stationary). Both of these mobs were in locations where it was easy to avoid if you wanted to. ... . Since Ashes so far seems to basically just be taking things directly from other games with only one or two new ideas thrown in, the above is basically what I expect Ashes ocean content to be.
