Dygz wrote: » Well, I might agree ...
Voxtrium wrote: » I've played at the highest ranks in PvP games. I was LE and played with Global Elites in CS:GO, I was Masters in SC2, and in Lost Ark I was top 500 and I would've been at least top 200 if I didn't quit the game. Sure there are obviously better players than me, but when they beat me it wasn't some kind of crazy new mechanic or interesting strategy. They were literally just faster. The most important thing in high level PvP is reaction time and apm. The game is actually more interesting in low level PvP because that's where people actually try new things. At high level everyone is doing the same few things that are proven to work better than everything else. It's repetitive but fun because you can compete to see who is the best. AOC isn't a game designed around APM or reflexes, TTK is 40 sec+, latency will probably be 60+ for everyone. A PVP scenario is always unique in a game like this because skill variation will always exist, the top .01% of players will always have an advantage but they are nowhere near the representation of the masses and definitely not a representation of why PVP is always unique. That skill variation will mean skill combos are messed up, positioning screwed, communications misinterpreted, you could put an 8v8 in a single km^2 and record every fight for the next 5000 fights, and every one would be unique, positioning, skills used etc. Even if its only tiny details, they will be different, and the adaptations will only happen because its a player reacting instead of code.
I've played at the highest ranks in PvP games. I was LE and played with Global Elites in CS:GO, I was Masters in SC2, and in Lost Ark I was top 500 and I would've been at least top 200 if I didn't quit the game. Sure there are obviously better players than me, but when they beat me it wasn't some kind of crazy new mechanic or interesting strategy. They were literally just faster. The most important thing in high level PvP is reaction time and apm. The game is actually more interesting in low level PvP because that's where people actually try new things. At high level everyone is doing the same few things that are proven to work better than everything else. It's repetitive but fun because you can compete to see who is the best.
Natasha wrote: » Sure. But that's not the vision here.
Aerlana wrote: » Natasha wrote: » Sure. But that's not the vision here. This... Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play. (yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...) Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing. Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset... People should stop to hope have the game they would love. We can debate on more minor element : Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc. But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it. WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... )
Mag7spy wrote: » Aerlana wrote: » Natasha wrote: » Sure. But that's not the vision here. This... Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play. (yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...) Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing. Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset... People should stop to hope have the game they would love. We can debate on more minor element : Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc. But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it. WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... ) Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie.
DarkTides wrote: » Depends what satisfies you as a PvEer. It's a spectrum of personalities.
worddog wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Aerlana wrote: » Natasha wrote: » Sure. But that's not the vision here. This... Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play. (yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...) Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing. Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset... People should stop to hope have the game they would love. We can debate on more minor element : Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc. But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it. WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... ) Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie. Generally speaking the game is good, but it has basically zero community. And that's because of it's design. There is really no reason to interact with other players most of the time. Big members of the community are usually people who have spent a lot of money as well instead of actually understanding the game more.
Mag7spy wrote: » worddog wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Aerlana wrote: » Natasha wrote: » Sure. But that's not the vision here. This... Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play. (yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...) Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing. Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset... People should stop to hope have the game they would love. We can debate on more minor element : Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc. But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it. WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... ) Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie. Generally speaking the game is good, but it has basically zero community. And that's because of it's design. There is really no reason to interact with other players most of the time. Big members of the community are usually people who have spent a lot of money as well instead of actually understanding the game more. That is only part of the reason, pve focus being part of that with teleporting to instanced and that being most of the content. It has all convince elements that don't just make the world feel small but non existent. And no the game play isn't good for a mmorpg or of that type its bad. Game literarily started to put me to sleep. Yes hardcore people spend oney that is nothing new and has no impact on the game being bad or not. Also did i mention literarily it has the worst pvp out of any mmorpg I've ever played.
worddog wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » worddog wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Aerlana wrote: » Natasha wrote: » Sure. But that's not the vision here. This... Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play. (yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...) Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing. Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset... People should stop to hope have the game they would love. We can debate on more minor element : Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc. But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it. WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... ) Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie. Generally speaking the game is good, but it has basically zero community. And that's because of it's design. There is really no reason to interact with other players most of the time. Big members of the community are usually people who have spent a lot of money as well instead of actually understanding the game more. That is only part of the reason, pve focus being part of that with teleporting to instanced and that being most of the content. It has all convince elements that don't just make the world feel small but non existent. And no the game play isn't good for a mmorpg or of that type its bad. Game literarily started to put me to sleep. Yes hardcore people spend oney that is nothing new and has no impact on the game being bad or not. Also did i mention literarily it has the worst pvp out of any mmorpg I've ever played. The definition of a "good game" isn't whether or not YOU specifically enjoy it. Lost Ark is a success, that's just a fact. The people who play the game, enjoy it. If you said Ashes of Creation put you to sleep, that wouldn't make Ashes of Creation a bad MMORPG. I personally quit Lost Ark, but I'm not going to make the incorrect claim that the game itself is bad, it just isn't enjoyable anymore for me personally.
Mag7spy wrote: » worddog wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » worddog wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Aerlana wrote: » Natasha wrote: » Sure. But that's not the vision here. This... Lost ark is a really good game in my opinion, for PvE. abrelshud being a really good fight, difficulty wise, other legion raid are really interesting, and fun. and i really like to play each class i play. (yes, i know, P2W problem and others... i love this game but i dont love all in it...) Mortal 2 seems to be a really good game also. i won't speak more because totally not my thing. Those are 2 different young MMORPG with absolutely opposite mindset... People should stop to hope have the game they would love. We can debate on more minor element : Is secundary archetype change good or bad, Is secundary archetype just about augment enough or should it be more impactfull. etc etc. But the base idea (mostly, icentive to PvE, impact of PvP, node system, corruption system) are not debatable, those are the DNA of the game and the foundation of it. If you want a marvellous house, you first project what you want in it, then begin to build the foundations, because ALL will depend of it, and when it is done, you can't change it. WoW did change part of its base idea. with Duty Finder in WOTLK. No need anymore to contact people (thru whisp or shout) to gather the party. No need anymore to move to dungeons. Allowing to "play more". But it changed the game, and changed how people interacted with the game. It changed also the mentality (more kick from dungeons... ) Lost ark is the reason why i realize how boring those types of games are when you just teleport to the boss and run the same dungeon all day. Doesn't feel like a mmorpg feels like a glorified coop game. Honestly after playing lost ark i can't even say the game is good i just played it like a zombie. Generally speaking the game is good, but it has basically zero community. And that's because of it's design. There is really no reason to interact with other players most of the time. Big members of the community are usually people who have spent a lot of money as well instead of actually understanding the game more. That is only part of the reason, pve focus being part of that with teleporting to instanced and that being most of the content. It has all convince elements that don't just make the world feel small but non existent. And no the game play isn't good for a mmorpg or of that type its bad. Game literarily started to put me to sleep. Yes hardcore people spend oney that is nothing new and has no impact on the game being bad or not. Also did i mention literarily it has the worst pvp out of any mmorpg I've ever played. The definition of a "good game" isn't whether or not YOU specifically enjoy it. Lost Ark is a success, that's just a fact. The people who play the game, enjoy it. If you said Ashes of Creation put you to sleep, that wouldn't make Ashes of Creation a bad MMORPG. I personally quit Lost Ark, but I'm not going to make the incorrect claim that the game itself is bad, it just isn't enjoyable anymore for me personally. I wonder why you quit like most the other players, with half of them bots that are playing the game lmao. I've played the game long enough to judge it was not good lmao.
ClintHardwood wrote: » @worddog. Hey man, I don't know if you're serious or just looking for attention, but can you stop spamming the forums with your 'hot takes'? All of your topics can be answered with a quick glance at the AoC wiki.
worddog wrote: » ClintHardwood wrote: » @worddog. Hey man, I don't know if you're serious or just looking for attention, but can you stop spamming the forums with your 'hot takes'? All of your topics can be answered with a quick glance at the AoC wiki. Most of my topics are asking for people's opinions on certain topics. The wiki doesn't provide that. It's a public forum, If people aren't interested in a post I make they can ignore it, but they aren't doing that. The only reason my posts show up in the general discussion is because people keep commenting on them which pushes them back to the top. And by commenting on this post you have made it relevant again. Feel free to comment or not comment, I'm not forcing you to do anything.
ClintHardwood wrote: » worddog wrote: » ClintHardwood wrote: » @worddog. Hey man, I don't know if you're serious or just looking for attention, but can you stop spamming the forums with your 'hot takes'? All of your topics can be answered with a quick glance at the AoC wiki. Most of my topics are asking for people's opinions on certain topics. The wiki doesn't provide that. It's a public forum, If people aren't interested in a post I make they can ignore it, but they aren't doing that. The only reason my posts show up in the general discussion is because people keep commenting on them which pushes them back to the top. And by commenting on this post you have made it relevant again. Feel free to comment or not comment, I'm not forcing you to do anything. Thread title: Is the goal truly PvX?https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvX: Ashes of Creation is a PvX game. Players will naturally encounter both PvP and PvE elements.[2][3][4] It is unlikely that a player could purely focus on just PvP or just PvE.
worddog wrote: » So is this game PvX? Or is it just a PvP game?
Kubitz2 wrote: » A lot of the comments in the current YT-discussion are in the vein of: - "AoC has owPvP, so it's a PvP game. PvX means that you can do some PvE-stuff, if you want to." - "AoC is PvP focused, so the combat will be designed for those that like competitive hc-PvP." I don't agree with these statements and think alot of PvPers have interpreted their own wishes into Stevens comments.
NiKr wrote: » Kubitz2 wrote: » A lot of the comments in the current YT-discussion are in the vein of: - "AoC has owPvP, so it's a PvP game. PvX means that you can do some PvE-stuff, if you want to." - "AoC is PvP focused, so the combat will be designed for those that like competitive hc-PvP." I don't agree with these statements and think alot of PvPers have interpreted their own wishes into Stevens comments. Imo WoW destroyed any potential for a pvx game to survive, because it created and cemented in people's minds the idea of pure duality. You either do pvp or pve. It then reinforced this idea by giving people equal gear by being good at either instead of both. And this led to people only thinking within that duality. PvErs can never enjoy pvp and PvPers can't do PvE. And after several generations of gamers we have ourselves the current situation, where PvX doesn't mean shit, or, to be more exact, it means that "it's a pvp game that also has pve, but only pvpers can enjoy it".
