The Gatherers as Locusts Conundrum

I would like to start this discussion by saying I am wildly thrilled with how the gathering system is progressing in AoC so far. My goal, like I believe of most everyone on this forum, is to try to make AoC the best possible game to play.

AoC, as I see it, is a game that revolves around resources. Different resources will be required to build and develop nodes as well as equipment for players. Much of the contention between players will revolve around the control or utilization of resources. Therefore, the resource spawning and gathering system is as important a system (if not the most important) as any other and will require careful consideration and balance.

Gatherers as Locusts: My primary concern after watching the recent video regarding gathering is gatherers being portrayed as locusts marauding across Verra. Looking at the current iteration this may not be without merit. I can only imagine the decimation that 100 gatherers could do in a region running from tree to tree with only 8-10 seconds to fell an entire mature tree and have wooden planks suddenly appear in their inventory. How can this massive resource dump be controlled in the Verran economy?

1. Increase the amount of time for a single gatherer to mine a node or fell a tree. This could be sped up with groups of gatherers working together.
2. Break down the gathering process into steps. Trees will need to be delimbed and cut into lengths and then cut into usable boards. Mining nodes will need to be broken open and then have those pieces be crushed to extract usable ore.
3. For the love of the Seven, please implement some kind of weight/encumbrance system. Running around carrying dozens of planks, sacks of ore, animal hides, meat, and plants is just immersion breaking for me. So many games screw this up, but that is for a different rant.
4. Individual trees/mineral deposits could produce different quality level or amount of resources. This could make the surveying mechanic more viable by increasing the importance of tree/deposit selection in the gathering process.

What are your thoughts and ideas?

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Comments

Lust69

I agree with them points as long it wasn’t made to long to mine ore or fell a tree. I would then balance creating things to be the same duration as it would have been before them changes.

tautau

Doesn't it all depend on the respawn time of trees and other resources? Does it take one hour for a sapling to respawn or 15 seconds? Does a tree mature in 3 hours or a full day? Are new rocks pushed up out of the ground in an hour or in 12 hours?

All we know is that the near instant respawning we saw in the livestream was speedier than what it will be upon release. Until we know the respawn speed, all we are doing is speculating without factual foundation.

Tearl Stoneheart

Point 1 can be done through tools and your skill level in the gathering profession. At first, it should take more time! As you get better skilled and better tools, that time will drop, but you'll also open access to higher quality gatherable resources.
Point 2...I think you may be forgetting about the processing. When you chop a tree, you get wood...not planks/boards/whatever. You get a resource that can't be used to craft until it is processed. Same with mining. You get the raw resource, but it's not a craftable item until processed. Processing is a separate profession that gathering.
You're on point with the encumbrance comment!
On the last point, I think the idea is to have just that: amount is not fixed, quality is based on skill/tool level.

novercalis

With a caravan system in place - I can only imagine encumbrance is gonna be very high for RAW materials.

I don't expect gatherers are gonna be able to carry a lot and it's gonna be a lot of running back and forth.

I am more curious about mounts being used as mules to carry additional inventory.

I hope an individual + mount = 10% of what a caravan capacity is, or less.

Sengarden

Did you post this in the livestream feedback request thread?

novercalis wrote: »

With a caravan system in place - I can only imagine encumbrance is gonna be very high for RAW materials.

I don't expect gatherers are gonna be able to carry a lot and it's gonna be a lot of running back and forth.

I am more curious about mounts being used as mules to carry additional inventory.

I hope an individual + mount = 10% of what a caravan capacity is, or less.

10% seems a little low. I mean realistically, what volume percentage does a mule cart contain vs that of a caravan? I'd say 20-25%, at least, depending on how big the caravan actually is, which there may be multiple options for.

Generally though, between all of these different facets (carrying capacity, gathering time, respawn time, speed of animal-drawn carts) we should hopefully be able to mitigate huge swarms of players wiping out the local flora, fauna, and minerals. If we have a realistic abundance of resources to gather, then there should be realistic limitations on the speed at which we can gather and utilize those resources.

novercalis

something like this - I'd rather throw away realistic logical sense over the integrity of the system.
To emphasize and incentivize caravans - an individual + mount should be 10 ---15% MAX imho

thus the meta encourages group activites aka caravan.

Frostywombat

It’s 10 to one for each lvl pack<mule<caravan in the wiki. so caravan vs backpack is 100 to 1. I’m guessing mules move slower than other mounts so no need for encumbrance mechanic. Caravans can only be started at the node so won’t be part of the gathering.

Arya_Yeshe

1. Increase the amount of time for a single gatherer to mine a node or fell a tree. This could be sped up with groups of gatherers working together.
A: Hmm... who knows, could be, in the alpha some stuff were accelerated for the sake of the video

2. Break down the gathering process into steps. Trees will need to be delimbed and cut into lengths and then cut into usable boards. Mining nodes will need to be broken open and then have those pieces be crushed to extract usable ore.
A: There's refining in the cities and freeholds for that

3. For the love of the Seven, please implement some kind of weight/encumbrance system. Running around carrying dozens of planks, sacks of ore, animal hides, meat, and plants is just immersion breaking for me. So many games screw this up, but that is for a different rant.
A: There's weight management in the wiki

4. Individual trees/mineral deposits could produce different quality level or amount of resources. This could make the surveying mechanic more viable by increasing the importance of tree/deposit selection in the gathering process.
A: It's extremely random, the deposit could have anything, we don't know in details yet

Fantmx

This will be my PvP. I plan to run through the forests, felling every tree, knocking over every bush and killing every rabbit, all while leaving the items I get from them on the ground.

Mattchoo

Fantmx wrote: »

This will be my PvP. I plan to run through the forests, felling every tree, knocking over every bush and killing every rabbit, all while leaving the items I get from them on the ground.

This will be an interesting PvP tactic. This would certainly deprive a node of its' resources. Much of its' success will depend on the despawn timers for things dropped on the ground. Also, won't the act of harvesting send experience to the node helping it level?

FuryBladeborne

Sengarden wrote: »

Did you post this in the livestream feedback request thread?

novercalis wrote: »

With a caravan system in place - I can only imagine encumbrance is gonna be very high for RAW materials.

I don't expect gatherers are gonna be able to carry a lot and it's gonna be a lot of running back and forth.

I am more curious about mounts being used as mules to carry additional inventory.

I hope an individual + mount = 10% of what a caravan capacity is, or less.

10% seems a little low. I mean realistically, what volume percentage does a mule cart contain vs that of a caravan? I'd say 20-25%, at least, depending on how big the caravan actually is, which there may be multiple options for.

Generally though, between all of these different facets (carrying capacity, gathering time, respawn time, speed of animal-drawn carts) we should hopefully be able to mitigate huge swarms of players wiping out the local flora, fauna, and minerals. If we have a realistic abundance of resources to gather, then there should be realistic limitations on the speed at which we can gather and utilize those resources.

The announced amount for a player (being on a mount does not matter) is 1% of a caravan. A mule carries 10% of a caravan.

"Mules can carry roughly 10 times more than backpacks. Caravans can carry roughly 10 times more than mules."

Of course, we don't know exactly how much can be carried since we don't know what a backpack carries; and, everything is subject to change and we will obviously be testing during Alpha 2.

ariatras

Whilst I enjoy the way the tree fell down. I dislike what it represented. The fact that an amount of logs got to the inventory I just do not like it, at all. And I know this is highly personal.

But when an emphasis is placed on wanting dedicated crafters etc. And wanting players to work together, it's only seen in the production chain. The three step one.
To me, true cooperation for these types of things would be to have the logs/ores be physical and large quantities need to be transported via an actual cart which players can interact with (hostile and non-hostile)
All the ore and logs disappearing in your pocket is just one of the many choices being made that make it look like just another MMO. I personally find this very disheartening.

Fantmx

Mattchoo wrote: »

Fantmx wrote: »

This will be my PvP. I plan to run through the forests, felling every tree, knocking over every bush and killing every rabbit, all while leaving the items I get from them on the ground.

This will be an interesting PvP tactic. This would certainly deprive a node of its' resources. Much of its' success will depend on the despawn timers for things dropped on the ground. Also, won't the act of harvesting send experience to the node helping it level?

It will but the chaos that follows will be fun to watch.

Nova_terra

I believe this will be one of the big 3-4 things that "needs" to be right for this game to have any success. The Locust mentality in relation to map size will have a huge impact on game experience in a owpvp/economy/UX and it's a very delicate balance to strike. There is a huge difference between scarcity and having every corner of the map picked over and having to fight for some resources. I have faith that the long test period (1 year for A2, months for betas) will iron this out.

Voxtrium

A person can carry 10% of a mules capacity and a mule 10% of a caravan.

Mules can carry roughly 10 times more than backpacks. Caravans can carry roughly 10 times more than mules.[33]

Arya_Yeshe

Mattchoo wrote: »

Fantmx wrote: »

This will be my PvP. I plan to run through the forests, felling every tree, knocking over every bush and killing every rabbit, all while leaving the items I get from them on the ground.

This will be an interesting PvP tactic. This would certainly deprive a node of its' resources. Much of its' success will depend on the despawn timers for things dropped on the ground. Also, won't the act of harvesting send experience to the node helping it level?

About XP, yes it will level the master node, but the vassal node is level capped so it won't level anyway, if you harvest in a vassal node then 1% of the xp will be sent to the master node

In the long run maybe it's worth doing this, because it will degrade the land

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