Create a dedicated "family friendly" server

For those of us who really don't want to hear the toxic locker room talk.
For those of us who don't want to hear the racist jokes, the sexist jokes, the raunchy jokes.
For those of us who don't want to be told to kill ourselves or uninstall the game when we make mistakes or don't perform to the standards of professional e-sports players or even the level of average gamers.
For those of us who may want to play the game with younger family members.
For those of us who don't throw insults because we are emboldened by the shield our computers give us and don't want to be surrounded by those who think the anonymity of the internet makes it ok to be toxic.

Maybe our server will be filled up with 'bads,' 'dirty casuals' and 'Karens,' but at least it will be a server we chose to join without the negative toxic gaming culture that seems to be completely standard in this industry.

If Steven really did post that the Ashes Community discord is 'not a safe space,' then could we at least get a safe space when the game launches? I would be there. If I'm the only one on the server and it gets shut down, so be it. I can look for another game. But could Intrepid at least promise they will try to be better? If it doesn't work out, no harm done, just close the server. At least then we'll finally know how many people are sick and tired of the current status quo of toxic gaming culture. At least then we'll finally know if there are enough positive people to support at least 1 server completely dedicated to a non-toxic gaming community.

****edit after responses:
So, let’s just strip away the details from my original post please and give me a chance to rephrase:

My overall message is that I would like to request a server dedicated to non-toxic gaming similar to a server dedicated to role-playing.

On role-playing servers, rp griefing is reportable where it is not otherwise reportable on regular servers. On the server there would be an additional disclaimer describing the type of prohibited behavior and messages for the server that everyone who joins the server would be required to acknowledge above and beyond the normal TOS regarding acceptable behavior. On the non-toxic server all toxic behavior would be reportable and swiftly and meaningfully handled by discerning human beings, whereas on regular servers almost all reports are handled by an AI that tends to punish people only when a certain threshold of reports have rolled in. This tends to sweep up a lot of innocent people who get brigaded and overlook toxic people who are not toxic 24-7, essentially giving them free passes to be toxic so long as they don’t do it too often.

A server where the first reported instance of telling someone “kys” would result in a 24 ban from the server (not the whole game, just that server). That could also even be handled by an AI for soft-kicks! Wouldn’t it be glorious if on this server people were instantly kicked out for typing ‘kys’ and forced to re-log in with a warning message? Sure, it could have been a typo, that’s why you wouldn’t get banned unless it was reported. but, the soft-kick would remind you to be more careful or make it clear that this server is not for trolls.

And I’ll say it LOUDER for the people in the back who are thinking up the next reportable reply with a GoT meme they think is totally going to pwn this Karen:

My overall message is that I would like to request a server dedicated to non-toxic gaming similar to a server dedicated to role-playing.

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Comments

StarPT

Ninja Kitty wrote: »

StarPT wrote: »

You see, I have no issue with you wanting that, I have an issue with you attacking people and somehow playing victim once they slightly disagree with you.

@StarPT
Who did I attack? Can you please quote me where you think I have "attacked" someone?
When did I play the victim, when I was not the victim? can you please quote me where you think I have 'played the victim'?

I mean, I could quote discord, yes...but do I need to?

Ninja Kitty

@StarPT

First of all, if you want to make accusations, yes, you need to be able to back them up. Otherwise, they are just baseless ad hominem accusatory white noise with 0 contribution to the discussion.

Second of all, this is the Ashes forum where I made a post requesting a server dedicated to a non-toxic gaming community. Discord has nothing to do with my post here. If you concede that my original post here on the forum and my responses to people so far in this forum were not "attacks" and that I did not "play the victim" (unless prepared to quote from them as the basis of your argument); then, and only then, will I happily entertain your argument of whatever screenshots you want to take from discord to accuse me of these things. Assuming they are mine, I have no problem defending myself or owning up to my mistakes and apologizing.

Mag7spy

Ninja Kitty wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Enough. Stop bashing

Big brain, they hoped people bashed and used all the buzzwords hook, line and sinker. I honestly don't think they will answer my post.

your post is actually the only one I came back to respond to specifically because you asked questions in a polite way... but now I see that maybe I misjudged you....

This would be comedy, with multiple levels of memes, nothing wrong with this post of mine.

Mag7spy

StarPT wrote: »

Ninja Kitty wrote: »

StarPT wrote: »

You see, I have no issue with you wanting that, I have an issue with you attacking people and somehow playing victim once they slightly disagree with you.

@StarPT
Who did I attack? Can you please quote me where you think I have "attacked" someone?
When did I play the victim, when I was not the victim? can you please quote me where you think I have 'played the victim'?

I mean, I could quote discord, yes...but do I need to?

discord?

maouw

Ninja Kitty wrote: »

StarPT wrote: »

You see, I have no issue with you wanting that, I have an issue with you attacking people and somehow playing victim once they slightly disagree with you.

@StarPT
Who did I attack? Can you please quote me where you think I have "attacked" someone?
When did I play the victim, when I was not the victim? can you please quote me where you think I have 'played the victim'?

Please listen carefully, because this is how everyone on the forums is percieving your post:

For those of us who don't want to <judgement>

^ This is casting a judgement

For those of us who don't want to <judgement>

^ This is playing the victim, because you're implying that your rights are being infringed

Those judgements are:

... the toxic locker room talk.

translation: people on regular servers are toxic, I am not.

... the racist jokes, the sexist jokes, the raunchy jokes.

translation: people on regular servers are racist, sexist and raunchy, but I am not.

... told to kill ourselves or uninstall the game when we make mistakes or don't perform to the standards of professional e-sports players or even the level of average gamers.

translation: people on regular servers have unreasonable expectations.

... with younger family members

translation: people on regular servers don't know how to behave with young family members.

... throw insults because we are emboldened by the shield our computers give us and don't want to be surrounded by those who think the anonymity of the internet makes it ok to be toxic.

translation: people on regular servers are insecure, and unwilling to take ownership of responsibility.

Maybe our server will be filled up with 'bads,' 'dirty casuals' and 'Karens,'

This is playing victim

at least it will be a server we chose to join

this is also playing victim - your right to choose being denied.

the negative toxic gaming culture that seems to be completely standard in this industry.

This judgement speaks for itself

And these were your opening statements.
How do you expect anyone to engage in discussion with you after you start by throwing this in their face?
The overall message is "I'm not like you, I'm morally superior, respect me."
Thus everyone else's reponse is "get off your high horse."

JamesSunderland

Not trying to offend you or anything(even tho that might prove to be quite a difficult task)but,
your passive-aggressive thread makes you look so fragile, so vulnerable and so hurt while playing on a victim mentality with unreasonable expectations of protection on such a hostile enviroment like the internet....

A dedicated "Family friendly""Safe space" server is not only, not feasible as it is unreachable by a company simple desiring it, a "non-toxic community" can't be artificialy created in effective ways as it can be observed in many online games, a "non-toxic community" can only be created by non-toxic players who group along, segregates and attacks toxic-players through reporting them when they break ToS and wins the "toxicity war", but i have a sad information for you, toxic players usually, in the majority of games, far outclasses the number of non-toxic players.

In the end, such server would only attract the most vile individuals it is expecting to evade from...

Ninja Kitty

maouw wrote: »

Please listen carefully, because this is how everyone on the forums is percieving your post:
[...]
Thus everyone else's reponse is "get off your high horse."

You boldly claim to speak for “everyone on the forums.” So let’s roll with it.

I assume your reply is attempting to respond on behalf of @starpt who accused me of ‘attacking people’ and ‘playing the victim.’

I’ll address each argument separately as best I can, because your reasoning is illogical and somewhat self-contradictory in the greater context of what ‘everyone’ has been saying to me.

Argument 1: ‘I attacked people’
The basis of your argument here seems to be a series of ‘judgements,’ I would consider ‘observations,’ but we can call them ‘judgements.’

Those judgements are that players in the gaming community engage in sexist, racist and raunchy jokes, and toxic locker room talk. Your translations: that I’m stating other people on regular servers are toxic/racist/sexist/raunchy and I am not/ that I was saying people on regular servers don’t know how to behave with young family members / that people on regular servers are insecure and unwilling to take ownership or responsibility.

ok, I agree with that part.

Are you trying to imply that any of these ‘judgements’ are wrong? Because I’m really confused here. Are you trying to imply that there are no people on regular servers who are: toxic/sexist/racist/raunchy/un-family friendly/insecure/unwilling to take ownership of their own actions?

Because, respectfully, I disagree. I think these people exist. I think many people like this exist. Many Many Many people like this exist.

Does that constitute and attack on anyone to state or point out that these people exist? Is that what you are trying to say in the first half of your reply? Because that’s totally illogical.

Your translation for me that I am stating people on regular servers have ‘unreasonable expectations’ is putting words in my mouth.
I made no comment on their expectations reasonable or not. I have a problem with the toxic expression of their frustrations when I fail to meet whatever expectations they have. Is that supposed to be where I ‘attacked people’? Because I definitely disagree. I don’t think those statements constitute and attack on anyone either.
And you can’t put words in my post that were not there. That sort of defeats the whole purpose of me requesting to be quoted so that I could explain myself or apologize for my mistakes. I won’t apologize for your mistakes. Only you can do that.

Ultimately, you never really explicitly stated that you think I ‘attacked people,’ but it seems like you are trying to imply that my ‘judgements’ or your ‘translations’ of my ‘judgements’ are an attack of some sort. Those statements were more for the purpose of background information as part of my reasoning to request a server dedicated to non-toxic gaming.

Argument 2: ‘I played the victim’
This one is gunna be good, get off your phone, wait till you can sit down in your comfy gamer chair and read this next bit.

I’ll address your second ‘playing victim’ argument first, because it’s more easily dismissed. I never said my right to choose was being denied. You said that. I requested a family friendly server. I did not demand one. I requested one.

I never said I had a ‘right’ to any such server. I just said, that if they made one, and it was filled up with those types of people, at least it would have been their choice to be there. Meaning, no one is forcing anyone to join a safe-space server. It absolutely does not hurt you or hinder your gameplay for this server to exist. It’s just for the people who choose to be there. Your argument that I am complaining about some ‘rights’ being taken away from me is extremely far-fetched and a total exaggeration of the intentions of my post.

Now, the first example you made about me ‘playing the victim’ was because I postulated that the requested family friendly server might be filled up with ‘bads,’ ‘dirty casuals,’ and ‘Karens.' You said that this constituted me ‘playing the victim.’ I am literally rephrasing exactly what you said. do you agree so far? I am going to assume so, since that’s the way you wrote it.

Your argument here is based on the premise that this name calling constitutes toxic behavior that makes the recipient a victim. That’s you, that’s all you right there….

Since you think it’s ‘playing the victim’ to anticipate being name called a ‘bad,’ or ‘Karen,’ I wonder if I should contact the Ashes of Creation Community discord managers to make sure they let go the volunteer moderator who saw nothing wrong with people calling me “Karen,” “snowflake,’ and whatnot?

I included that part about the server being filled with Karen’s as counterargument anticipation. Because those are some of the counterarguments I got from the discord when I just asked if there was any PG-13 guilds. People told me that I wouldn’t find it, I called them ignorant and unhelpful, then they started calling me Karen. I pinged the mods (excessively, and I deserved my time out); the mod who responded basically said all is well here, nothing wrong with this.

So, at this point we have two options:
1. You are wrong. I did not play the victim because being called ‘Karen’ and other names on the internet is not toxic enough for me or anyone else to think I am being ‘victimized.’ Therefore, you cannot argue that I ‘played the victim.’

2. You are right. I ‘played the victim’ here in the Ashes forum before anyone could even call me hurtful toxic names. Then, you would also have to agree that I would be well within my ‘rights’ to contact the Ashes of Creations discord moderators and demand that the discord moderator who condoned their behavir toward me be let go from his volunteer position for failing to moderate such toxic insults thrown my way. And all the volunteer moderators should be re-trained so an incident like this never happens again. (I would never do this, btw, I’m personally in the #1 option camp because I don’t think I have been ‘victimized’ and I don’t think I have ‘played the victim,’ either by pointing out the common responses I get when asking for safe spaces or pointing out toxic behavior.)

Your overall interpretation of my post is also wrong.

So, let’s just strip away the details from my original post please and give me a chance to rephrase:
My overall message is that I would like to request a server dedicated to non-toxic gaming similar to a server dedicated to role-playing.

On role-playing servers, rp griefing is reportable where it is not otherwise reportable on regular servers. On the server there would be an additional disclaimer describing the type of prohibited behavior and messages for the server that everyone who joins the server would be required to acknowledge above and beyond the normal TOS regarding acceptable behavior. On the non-toxic server all toxic behavior would be reportable and swiftly and meaningfully handled by discerning human beings, whereas on regular servers almost all reports are handled by an AI that tends to punish people only when a certain threshold of reports have rolled in. This tends to sweep up a lot of innocent people who get brigaded and overlook toxic people who are not toxic 24-7, essentially giving them free passes to be toxic so long as they don’t do it too often.

A server where the first reported instance of telling someone “kys” would result in a 24 ban from the server (not the whole game, just that server). That could also even be handled by an AI for soft-kicks! Wouldn’t it be glorious if on this server people were instantly kicked out for typing ‘kys’ and forced to re-log in with a warning message? Sure, it could have been a typo, that’s why you wouldn’t get banned unless it was reported. but, the soft-kick would remind you to be more careful or make it clear that this server is not for trolls.

And I’ll say it LOUDER for the people in the back who are thinking up the next reportable reply with a GoT meme they think is totally going to pwn this Karen:

My overall message is that I would like to request a server dedicated to non-toxic gaming similar to a server dedicated to role-playing.

LadyZel

The quality of the community is going to come down to how well the Intrepid's TOS is policed and how much toxic-type players are able to get away with. I'd expect the isms to be taken seriously, as well as offensive or sexualised character names and chat/behaviour.

It's really down to Intrepid to maintain a healthy/happy community. A family-friendly server tag would probably attract trollish behaviour.

Ninja Kitty

well, considering the forum moderators/administrators have squelched this post, I seriously doubt that Ashes will be any different or better at enforcing their TOS. They don't even want to entertain a dialogue about it on the forums. The quality of the Ashes community will most likely be the same as any other MMO, with little to no meaningful repercussions for toxic behavior.

Sinolai

My experience from other MMOs has been that the "non-toxic" communities tend to be the most spiteful and manipulative communities, usually filled with drama and repressed feelings. They are often petty and seek vengeance on smallest offence, play the victim for sympathy and mass report anything that might result in a punishment for the person they hate. It is very easy to slip a few nasty words from your mouth when having a bad day, even when you dont really mean anything bad and some people will take it heavier than others. Proving malicious intent or the lack of it would be difficult.

Moderating communities like that would be very time consuming and expensive. I would rather have that time and money put elsewhere.

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