Fantmx wrote: » I am just here to find out how 750 km2 of a 1200 km2 world comes out to 10%.
Dygz wrote: » Strevi wrote: » There can be cases when you may never meet anyone able to kill you on the sea. Not because seas would be empty but even being flagged, not all players will be able to kill each-other. Guilds can be quite large and bound in alliances and they will not be able to fight each-other. So you could explore if that is your wish. But if you accept it, then the risk is that somebody comes and kills you. That is the risk. You call it "issue". Whether someone can kill me is irrelevant. Whether someone can push me into non-consensual PvP with no penalty for doing so is the issue. That is not what I would call "risk". But, label it whatever you will, I easily avoid that by not playing the game. So. No. I don't accept the auto-flagging in the Open Seas. Specifically, I do not accept being flagged as interested in PvP combat, when, most likely, I will be in quite the opposite mood - even while exploring the Open Seas.
Strevi wrote: » There can be cases when you may never meet anyone able to kill you on the sea. Not because seas would be empty but even being flagged, not all players will be able to kill each-other. Guilds can be quite large and bound in alliances and they will not be able to fight each-other. So you could explore if that is your wish. But if you accept it, then the risk is that somebody comes and kills you. That is the risk. You call it "issue".
wrms wrote: » I'm playing either way, but I do think its notable that the super hyped corruption system that was going to solve all of the problems, wasn't considered adequate for the open seas. That seems like kind of a mixed message to me.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » wrms wrote: » I'm playing either way, but I do think its notable that the super hyped corruption system that was going to solve all of the problems, wasn't considered adequate for the open seas. That seems like kind of a mixed message to me. Corruption is for protecting the kids and mushy carebears forever mining and forever cutting trees around starting areas Steven was smart, the PvPers will go to the PvP areas and there will be barely anyone corrupted at all Carebears are so greedy and self-entitled that they can't stand the fact that somewhere over there there's some farming too, but people can touch them if they travel over there Carebears can't stand living the possibility of someone stealing a little bit of lumber from them This type of players are the ones who lead the outcries in the forums, social media and support tickets... then the companies change the games making the games safer for appeasing the carebears and then the games become boring They can't stand player driven content They want the companies providing all the content, they put the responsibility over the fun in the hands of the companies, that's why they suck as players and it is uninteresting being around them
Nova_terra wrote: » I am a fairly new poster, long time lurker and my post was more of me trying to understand your angle. Even as a "solution" making rewards less for being non-combatant is interesting to me as a PvPer, I doubt that will ever work in a system like this but Was just interested to see your "flavor profile" when it comes to being at a loot disadvantage if it means you can do whatever you want. This is all moot as the final game will most likely not feature anything like this but I guess is interesting to someone trying to understand your stance.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Carebears are so greedy and self-entitled that they can't stand the fact that somewhere over there there's some farming too, but people can touch them if they travel over there.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Carebears can't stand living the possibility of someone stealing a little bit of lumber from them
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » This type of players are the ones who lead the outcries in the forums, social media and support tickets... then the companies change the games making the games safer for appeasing the carebears and then the games become boring
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » They can't stand player driven content.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » They want the companies providing all the content, they put the responsibility over the fun in the hands of the companies, that's why they suck as players and it is uninteresting being around them
Dygz wrote: » Nova_terra wrote: » I am a fairly new poster, long time lurker and my post was more of me trying to understand your angle. Even as a "solution" making rewards less for being non-combatant is interesting to me as a PvPer, I doubt that will ever work in a system like this but Was just interested to see your "flavor profile" when it comes to being at a loot disadvantage if it means you can do whatever you want. This is all moot as the final game will most likely not feature anything like this but I guess is interesting to someone trying to understand your stance. Yes. So... Again... with my Bartle Score Explorer 87%; Socializer 73% ; Achiever 47%; Killer 0%... You can see that my Achiever rating is fairly low. Acquiring loot is not a significant motivator for me. And... I am a quintessential carebear - I prefer to focus on enhancing and healing people and environments and (in D&D) using social skills and Stealth to avoid combat. Which is why my Killer rating so low. In MMORPGs, it's not actually 0% because killing stuff is so core to MMORPG leveling at a reasonable pace. My main will do quite a bit of killing to complete quests - sometimes to my personal horror. Steven's memorable moments are when PvP spikes his adrenaline. My most memorable moments are when I had quests to massacre Goblins by steamrolling over them as they fled screaming in terror - and even backing over them to make sure I squished all of the required kill count. And when I used a cannon to immolate Goblins with fire - who writhed in such pain that they flung themselves off a cliff to end their suffering. I don't play RPGs because I want to kill stuff. I play RPGs because I want to enact the life of protagonists on the Hero's Journey in fantasy and sci-fi novels. And... those protagonists typically are not going on killing sprees. And they typically are not killing people for revenge or to stop rivals from gathering resources in their territories. Even though my main will do quite a lot of killing to complete quests and level quickly, I also typically have alts doing the Carebear Challenge of leveling to max with 0 kills. Instead of raiding for a full set of BiS gear, I'm more likely to be focused on an alt pursuing the Ironman Carebear Challenge of 0 kills/0 deaths. So... my concept of "Risk" is not the same as what is touted by Steven and other hardcore PvPers. UO was too PvP-centric for me. I refused to play UO. In EQ and WoW, I started on PvP-Optional servers. Occassionally, I would choose to flag for PvP inorder to protect towns from having their quest-givers killed by players from the rival faction. I'm not thinking about how much loot I can get when I do that. I'm also not thinking about Risk v Reward. I'm not really thinking about "risk". When I PvP in NWO, I mostly ignore kills and deaths. I engage in combat as little as possible and focus on completing the PvE objectives as often as possible, like capturing pylons or building up base defenses. Sieges and Caravans in the Ashes design seem like a good fit for my PvP interests - objective-based PvP. I like defending towns and cities - even if I have to kill some other players in the process - although killing other players and looting other players would be the least of my insterests in those scenarios. I enjoyed Sieges in Alpha 1... but I mostly focused on using cannons to destroy the trebuchets tryng to break down the gates and on healing defenders at the wall gates and healing defenders and the Castle doors and on recapturing pylons. I consider those opt-in. Alpha 1, Sieges were instances, but they should be open world in the release game. I can be in those areas as a Non-Combatant and choose not to flag as a Combatant. Node Ruins being auto-flag PvP for several hours or even a couple days is not a deal-breaker like the Open Seas because Node Runs are temporary. A permanent zone that has quests and bosses and resources to entice people to auto-flag for PvP is too PvP-centric for me. I won't play a game that has permanent zones with that ruleset. Even though I used to start on PvP-Optional servers because I enjoy PvP sometimes - I typically rage-quit those and move to PvE-Only servers. I don't like playing on the same servers as PvPers. I don't play MMORPGs that don't have a separate PvE-Only server. In EQ, the PvE-Only servers have the highest populations. So, I was surprised that the EQNext design did not have a separate PvE-Only server. The devs stated that they didn't want to split the playerbase like that and instead wanted all the playstyles to play together and that they believed they would have a world where PvEers would be able to focus on PvE while Crafting and Supporting PvPers with buffs and healing while the PvPers focused on the actual PvP combat. I never understood how that would be successful. On the EQNext forums, the quickest way to get a temporary ban was to discuss designs that would convince PvPers to play alongside PvEers. PvPers would share their ideas - the PvEers would become offended and enfuriated and get banned. PvEers would hare ther ideas - the PvPers woud become offended and enfuriated and get banned. EQNext died before we learned what the dev solution was supposed to be to get these oposing playstyles to play together on the same servers. I backed the Kickstarter for Ashes of Creation primarily because I want devs to be learning how to quickly develop and implement players building and defending their cities. I think that's crucial for the longevity of an MMORPG world. It's a better gap bridger while waiting for new content than repetitive raiding. But, I typically play on PvE-only servers and don't enjoy playing on the same servers as PvPers, so I'm curious about how the devs will entice players who typically play on PvE-Only servers to play on the same servers as PvPers. Corruption has been the presented solution. Steven and other Lineage II players suggest that Corruption should deter non-consensual PvP enough that most PvE-focused players should feel comfortable playing Ashes of Creation. It's mostly just those who want zero PvP who will not feel comfortable playing Ashes. I'm highly skeptical, but eager to test Corruption to see if it will truly work as claimed. Hopefully so because I have some PvPer friends who I like enough out-of-game that I think I should enjoy hanging out with them in-game. (Although, that being said, I like Steven out-of-game, but I'm pretty sure I would hate playing with his PvP mindset in-game.) But, with the inclusion a permanent zone that does not penalize non-consensual PvP - where you auto-consent for PvP just by entering the zone - that nullifies the solution of Corruption. So, it's an automatic deal-breaker for me. I now place Ashes in the same category as UO, EvE Online and ArcheAge. And that's OK. I don't need to play every MMORPG that's made. I expect to find other MMORPGs I prefer to play before Ashes is released. And there are systems I still want to test in Alpha 2. Just Steven's gameplay philosophy for Ashes is too hardcore and too PvP-centric for me to enjoy playing.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Dyze "UO was too PvP-centric for me. I refused to play UO." About this, I was on of those players in UO who people are still crying about 25 years later. I used the skill pickpocket on people at the banks, not for stealing... but for adding bombs in their bags and turning them into living bombs. It was like a terrorist attack, people exploding and killing all around them and I laughing and looting everybody and adding their items in my bank. Then I used to take their house's keys and teleport to their house using their rune, then I would steall all their belongings they farmed for months. I used to make alts and make the alt live inside their home so I could randomly take a good item a day. I camped the noobie cemetaries and used to cast gate travels and bring the bigges dragons in the game to the newbie area just to see them die and loot them all. I used to steal all the gold from all the NPCs around town. I used to visit miners and kill all, kill all afk miners... used to cast stomewant at cave's exist to prevent people from escaping and them sumon spirits inside the gate and watch them die. I backstabbed every player I could in UO, anyone who wasnt my friend was my enemy. I broke in and cleaned every possible house from neighbours and then I said it wasn't me.. I used to gate travel people into dragon nests just to laugh at them dying to dragons. I used to cast stonewalls on moon gates and prevent people from travelling so I could kill them. I poisoned every possible unit of food just to make other people sick. I quartered my bodies everytime and I used to hid all my body parts so people couldn't find my crimes. I used to fake messages ingame so people would think I was attacking them, if they hit me I could call the guards and see them die so I could loot them. I used to make alts and place them into clearings in the woods for the future, if in the future someone placed a house there I was already inside, throwing the guy's possessions through the window so I could pick it up with my main I stole every possible loot I could for everybody I could I also scammed people by selling shares of my property, wanna 50% of this? If you pay me 30k it's yours... then sell 50% of it to 10 people in a row
Noaani wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » @Dyze "UO was too PvP-centric for me. I refused to play UO." About this, I was on of those players in UO who people are still crying about 25 years later. I used the skill pickpocket on people at the banks, not for stealing... but for adding bombs in their bags and turning them into living bombs. It was like a terrorist attack, people exploding and killing all around them and I laughing and looting everybody and adding their items in my bank. Then I used to take their house's keys and teleport to their house using their rune, then I would steall all their belongings they farmed for months. I used to make alts and make the alt live inside their home so I could randomly take a good item a day. I camped the noobie cemetaries and used to cast gate travels and bring the bigges dragons in the game to the newbie area just to see them die and loot them all. I used to steal all the gold from all the NPCs around town. I used to visit miners and kill all, kill all afk miners... used to cast stomewant at cave's exist to prevent people from escaping and them sumon spirits inside the gate and watch them die. I backstabbed every player I could in UO, anyone who wasnt my friend was my enemy. I broke in and cleaned every possible house from neighbours and then I said it wasn't me.. I used to gate travel people into dragon nests just to laugh at them dying to dragons. I used to cast stonewalls on moon gates and prevent people from travelling so I could kill them. I poisoned every possible unit of food just to make other people sick. I quartered my bodies everytime and I used to hid all my body parts so people couldn't find my crimes. I used to fake messages ingame so people would think I was attacking them, if they hit me I could call the guards and see them die so I could loot them. I used to make alts and place them into clearings in the woods for the future, if in the future someone placed a house there I was already inside, throwing the guy's possessions through the window so I could pick it up with my main I stole every possible loot I could for everybody I could I also scammed people by selling shares of my property, wanna 50% of this? If you pay me 30k it's yours... then sell 50% of it to 10 people in a row In other words, you're the kind of player that forces developers to remove many aspects of games that would be great, if not for people doing exactly the above. Literally you are the reason the rest of us cant have nice things. Not only that, but you seem proud of this fact. If you are the target audience of any MMO, that MMO will have a lifespan of either months or weeks.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I was on of those players in UO who people are still crying about 25 years later.
Okeydoke wrote: » And yes that style of play is probably what led to that game taking a full carebear turn.
Noaani wrote: » Okeydoke wrote: » And yes that style of play is probably what led to that game taking a full carebear turn. There is no "probably" about it.
Okeydoke wrote: » ROFLMAO. You fkn psychopath, what a legend. I did almost none of that in UO. I started out anti pk, then went pk later on, very successful with both, huge bodycounts. Had a very prolific thieving career, went all out with that for awhile, some of the most fun I've ever had in a game. I could spend entire days at Chaos Shrine just killing people with their own bows or reagents I stole from their inventory. But I just played very vanilla. The most fucked up thing I did really was infiltrate an enemy guild and then let my guild into their keep to loot it. But none of this shit you just listed off haha. And yes that style of play is probably what led to that game taking a full carebear turn. I do remember seeing on my server a few times a guy gating in a dragon somewhere and bodies just start dropping lol. Oh my god such epic times.
Dygz wrote: » Strevi wrote: » you are highly sensitive when somebody attacks you in game and kills you No. I am highly sensitive to being flagged for PvP when I'm not in the mood for PvP. And I am highly sensitive to being pushed into non-consensual PvP when I am not in the mood for PvP. If I am in the mood for PvP and I make the choice to participate in PvP, rather than some other player making the choice for me, I don't care if another player kills me. Typically, when I PvP, I let players kill me as much as they wish, while I focus on completing other objectives - like capturing flags. But, if I am out exploring, socializing or gathering... which is what I do most of the time... I don't want some other player deciding for me that I must PvP. And, if they do, the penalty for that needs to be Corruption. If there is an area in the game to explore and gather where Corruption is not a penalty for non-consensual PvP - I won't play that game. Even if the area is only 10% of the game.
Strevi wrote: » you are highly sensitive when somebody attacks you in game and kills you
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » The people who says "i like pvp" and then ban me for pvping them, are in fact carebears pretending to be pvpers. I just played the game
