Veeshan wrote: » A key to a successful economy tbh is item decay when it come to crafting economy. A game called mabinogi i think may be the key here with economy there system is gear has x durability for this example we will use 100 max dura. So every time u repaired a single point of durability there was a chance for the repair to fail and instead of regaining that durability it will be removed the the max durability amount, i beleive the % was around 95% success so every point of dura repaired had a 5% chance to fail and lower max dura so effectivly roughtly every 20 dura repaired will result in 1 max dura reduction which can never be regained. I feel this system would be ideal for Ashes of creation since it also allows for quite a bit of customisation with crafting professions and NPC for example NPC might get a 80% success rate however going to a player (Or player crafted NPC that is non transferable that can be placed on freehold that offers the same repair chance as the player just so they can be out doing things and people can come get repairs from the freehold) could increase this up to 95% (Never 100% though). After gear max dura drops to like 25% of it max it become scrap and no longer any good this is more to let players know they should be replacing their gear soon so they get ample warning and shouldnt break in the field on them.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » Nova_terra wrote: » VekoCrnogorac wrote: » I am attached to Vanilla WoW because of all MMOs that I played, econony was not even close as good as WoW in early days. I am mainly speaking this to make things valuable. If you make 60 ores to drop fom one vein it will be less valuable then if it dropped one. It also creates many problems on decising prices at early stage. You will need to have a calculator to do prices properly,but if you had these simple drops you would put prices easily out from your head. I hope they make economy similar to vanilla, not gameplay. Economy means only numbers (gold) not to copy professions. I did give some examples on how to make more varieties to farm or make things more valuable and it is true if something is hsrder to get/less to get, economy will have more reasonable numbers, more familiar to IRL. 1g per ore feels much more realistic then 250g per ore, I hope you understand me now. Don't worry I am quite aware you mean economy only, but I don't think Ashes and the Intrepid team stand to gain anything from copying a 20 year dated formula. I realize for it's time it was the "best" we had in terms of economy but it was a (This is grossly my biased opinion as I am aware many people liked it) mildly bad minigame. I don't think units per drop has much meaning because it boils down to needing X amount of a resource and the numbers the system uses will be smaller but that doesn't change that you are getting X% of what you need per vein. It has a big impact on how many gold something will cost, simply because of simllicity. New World is newer game and its economy failed so much that you dont need to farm gold in order to sustain yourself. Many games newer then wow have exactly the same problem. Wow is a masterpiece in every aspect.
Nova_terra wrote: » VekoCrnogorac wrote: » I am attached to Vanilla WoW because of all MMOs that I played, econony was not even close as good as WoW in early days. I am mainly speaking this to make things valuable. If you make 60 ores to drop fom one vein it will be less valuable then if it dropped one. It also creates many problems on decising prices at early stage. You will need to have a calculator to do prices properly,but if you had these simple drops you would put prices easily out from your head. I hope they make economy similar to vanilla, not gameplay. Economy means only numbers (gold) not to copy professions. I did give some examples on how to make more varieties to farm or make things more valuable and it is true if something is hsrder to get/less to get, economy will have more reasonable numbers, more familiar to IRL. 1g per ore feels much more realistic then 250g per ore, I hope you understand me now. Don't worry I am quite aware you mean economy only, but I don't think Ashes and the Intrepid team stand to gain anything from copying a 20 year dated formula. I realize for it's time it was the "best" we had in terms of economy but it was a (This is grossly my biased opinion as I am aware many people liked it) mildly bad minigame. I don't think units per drop has much meaning because it boils down to needing X amount of a resource and the numbers the system uses will be smaller but that doesn't change that you are getting X% of what you need per vein.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » I am attached to Vanilla WoW because of all MMOs that I played, econony was not even close as good as WoW in early days. I am mainly speaking this to make things valuable. If you make 60 ores to drop fom one vein it will be less valuable then if it dropped one. It also creates many problems on decising prices at early stage. You will need to have a calculator to do prices properly,but if you had these simple drops you would put prices easily out from your head. I hope they make economy similar to vanilla, not gameplay. Economy means only numbers (gold) not to copy professions. I did give some examples on how to make more varieties to farm or make things more valuable and it is true if something is hsrder to get/less to get, economy will have more reasonable numbers, more familiar to IRL. 1g per ore feels much more realistic then 250g per ore, I hope you understand me now.
Veeshan wrote: » Long story short gear has to be destroyed in some way or form frequently enough to keep crafters in demand to replace said gear if they want a crafting based economy to work. PvE player tend to hate this though because there so use to raid gear progression so they get attached to gear.
Veeshan wrote: » A key to a successful economy tbh is item decay when it come to crafting economy. As an example ill use new world and harvesting tools. after about the first month these items were pointless to craft simply cause every player only ever needs 1 of them. so there was good profit if u rushed and was first one to hit the next tier up since everyone wanted upgraded tools, now once everyone got those tool there 0 market for tools every again. Same thing with armor and weapon, once u get the best item there you never ever have to replace it so there no longer market for said crafted items once everyone hits that point. Armor was harder to get BIS compared to tools though due to hated RNG. So ashes of creation needs item decay where you have to replace your gear in some way or form so there a constant supply and demand for items. Albion online probaly does this the best in mainstream economy since dieing in PvP has 25% chance to trash an item which removes those items from the market however i think we need to do better here since only so much item sink from pvp deaths can occur compared to how much you can craft the items. The issue here is there no effect on PvE players since aslong as u dont die in red/black zones (pvp zones) this never occurs A game called mabinogi i think may be the key here with economy there system is gear has x durability for this example we will use 100 max dura. So every time u repaired a single point of durability there was a chance for the repair to fail and instead of regaining that durability it will be removed the the max durability amount, i beleive the % was around 95% success so every point of dura repaired had a 5% chance to fail and lower max dura so effectivly roughtly every 20 dura repaired will result in 1 max dura reduction which can never be regained. I feel this system would be ideal for Ashes of creation since it also allows for quite a bit of customisation with crafting professions and NPC for example NPC might get a 80% success rate however going to a player (Or player crafted NPC that is non transferable that can be placed on freehold that offers the same repair chance as the player just so they can be out doing things and people can come get repairs from the freehold) could increase this up to 95% (Never 100% though). After gear max dura drops to like 25% of it max it become scrap and no longer any good this is more to let players know they should be replacing their gear soon so they get ample warning and shouldnt break in the field on them.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » "The more of something there is, the lower its cost is relative to currency, and the more likely the value is to stay static because of the loss of gradients in price control of singles/small stacks." If I understood it right, it's just the fact that you can't really sell stuff properly when a single piece of that stuff is almost unpriceable, because it goes below the lowest value of currency. Is that roughly correct? If it is, then yeah, I get what you're saying. Even if every single use of those mats utilized dozens of them at a time, the trading market would be shit because you'd have to counterweigh those "dozens" with some type of sub-currency that was only used in trading of mats, while everything else costed "normal currency". At which point you're starting to have issues with currency inflows relative to mat drop values and it all goes out of whack. If that is somewhat correct, then yeah, I was wrong about mat quantities not impacting the economy at its bigger scale. If that's wrong, then I guess there wasn't enough jiggle in my mind
Azherae wrote: » "The more of something there is, the lower its cost is relative to currency, and the more likely the value is to stay static because of the loss of gradients in price control of singles/small stacks."
Goalid wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » A key to a successful economy tbh is item decay when it come to crafting economy. As an example ill use new world and harvesting tools. after about the first month these items were pointless to craft simply cause every player only ever needs 1 of them. so there was good profit if u rushed and was first one to hit the next tier up since everyone wanted upgraded tools, now once everyone got those tool there 0 market for tools every again. Same thing with armor and weapon, once u get the best item there you never ever have to replace it so there no longer market for said crafted items once everyone hits that point. Armor was harder to get BIS compared to tools though due to hated RNG. So ashes of creation needs item decay where you have to replace your gear in some way or form so there a constant supply and demand for items. Albion online probaly does this the best in mainstream economy since dieing in PvP has 25% chance to trash an item which removes those items from the market however i think we need to do better here since only so much item sink from pvp deaths can occur compared to how much you can craft the items. The issue here is there no effect on PvE players since aslong as u dont die in red/black zones (pvp zones) this never occurs A game called mabinogi i think may be the key here with economy there system is gear has x durability for this example we will use 100 max dura. So every time u repaired a single point of durability there was a chance for the repair to fail and instead of regaining that durability it will be removed the the max durability amount, i beleive the % was around 95% success so every point of dura repaired had a 5% chance to fail and lower max dura so effectivly roughtly every 20 dura repaired will result in 1 max dura reduction which can never be regained. I feel this system would be ideal for Ashes of creation since it also allows for quite a bit of customisation with crafting professions and NPC for example NPC might get a 80% success rate however going to a player (Or player crafted NPC that is non transferable that can be placed on freehold that offers the same repair chance as the player just so they can be out doing things and people can come get repairs from the freehold) could increase this up to 95% (Never 100% though). After gear max dura drops to like 25% of it max it become scrap and no longer any good this is more to let players know they should be replacing their gear soon so they get ample warning and shouldnt break in the field on them. This is the same system used in Star Wars Galaxies, it's a tried and true system that the average person hears and screeches about because "I'm losing progression?!" but in reality is the best way I've seen to make it so crafters stay relevant.
Goalid wrote: » Isn't this solved if you let people sell say 30 wood for one gold? More of an auction house problem than a fundamental problem.
VekoCrnogorac wrote: » @Depraved Wait how runes are pointless and sigils for weapons? these things matter a lot yet I can get full set of runes from 1 hour playing farming. This is reason why gw2 sucks and all other games, in vanilla wow one enchant costs around 30min-1h of your farming, 1 flask costs 1h of farming and you need 2 for raid at beginning without gear, 1 health potion costs around 2-5g and you farm 50-120g per hour, in New World 1 health potion costs 2g and you farm 5k per hour on some lower ilvl farm - rawhides, you can farm a lot more in elite areas solo farming orchalicum ores with full luck gear/trophies. Consider that you will use at least 5 potions each battleground that lasts 20min that is around 10g - in vanilla. Idk if you are following me or anyone else, but in every mmo economy is worthless, this is a fact and I played it, and I know how vanilla economy is since I played it and leveled multiple times. Every mmo is not even close to that feeling of worthiness of any item. You can also farm in 30lvl zones and get 50g or go to end game zone and get 75g, even if you farmed in 30lvl zones for example free action potions, you would be making good money since every PVPer is stacking these potions for daily PVP (it makes you immune to stuns for 30sec) or you would be making resistance potions to defend you from spell resistance (frost,fire,nature etc..) 4k dmg for 2min - this can be a life savior in raids in many fights, 5 these cost around 40g i think and you need around 5 to finish raid. -so 40g for resist potions, 2 flasks around 200g, health / mana potions around 15g, food (if you are tank then 100g) if you are healer/dps (around 20g), enchants for gear (weapons alone can cost 100g+, other enchants around 30-40g per item - all slots can be enchanted 30gx8 items) etc... there is so much gold spending, not to forget ammo for hunters, the better ammo then from vendors (not mandatory but it gives you slight bonus dmg buff), cloth for first aid (3-4g), this all is per raid, and again you can farm 75g on usual farm that everyone does or you can farm 120g sometimes less 90g in elite areas farm, but there is a lot of PVP going on in these areas. Only if you were mage you could farm 250g per hour, but some pservers ban this kind of farming, even blizzard official Season of Mastery nerfed this farm and it was not doable.
NiKr wrote: » Goalid wrote: » Isn't this solved if you let people sell say 30 wood for one gold? More of an auction house problem than a fundamental problem. If one instance of resource source gives you 30 items and they all sell as "one" item for one gold - why in the living hell would you have it as 30 items? Especially if all the recipes treat those 30 items as one.
Goalid wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Goalid wrote: » Isn't this solved if you let people sell say 30 wood for one gold? More of an auction house problem than a fundamental problem. If one instance of resource source gives you 30 items and they all sell as "one" item for one gold - why in the living hell would you have it as 30 items? Especially if all the recipes treat those 30 items as one. It doesn't have to be listed as 30 items, you could list it as 5 iron ore for 1 gold or 500 iron ore for 1 gold, just like you can do in a trade. You're saying there's a problem with there being such a large number of some item, that the item is worth less than 1 gold on a market. That's really not a problem in the real world, and I can only see it as a problem with a poor auction house in a MMO.
