Full Loot PvP Areas.

Whilst perusing the world map and looking over the islands of Sujoma, Draakathbohr and Peligora, I couldn't help but think that AoC might benefit from having some full loot PvP areas. What we have seen of the corruption system is nice (I also think it might be a good idea to have some completely safe areas like the actual Node settlements) but I have a concern that there won't be enough "gear churn" for gathering and crafting to always be in significant demand across the different tiers of gear.

If for example, you had one or more of those islands as a full loot zone, it could be completely avoided by people not interested in that type of gameplay, but for those who are interested in "Risk vs Reward" you would provide a space for people to gear up, ship out and then fight on a full loot island. It would create a continuous demand for gear of all different tiers as many may only want to equip lower-end cheaper gear to explore the island as if they die they won't lose too much.

It would create demand at the auction houses for people wanting/needing to replace sets they lose.

Currently, you can only lose gatherables upon death from your personal inventory (as well as suffer a durability loss which can be repaired for a silver sink) You can lose stuff that is loaded onto a caravan and a ship but where/when will you ever need to craft/replace a piece of gear once you have one? Perhaps there could be a trash rate applied to gear that when knocked down so that there is a chance a piece of gear you are wearing or weapon you are using trashes and needs to be replaced.

If a server is around 8000 people, where will the demand for sets come from after 8000 of a particular one has been crafted?

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Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

I hope you're being sarcastic, but if somehow not, I can tell you that this ain't what actually happens...

Nah, I'm just joking. Attracting wrong people from either extreme ends of the pvx spectrum would be really bad for the game.

Azherae

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths

Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?

What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?

Arya_Yeshe

Azherae wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths

Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?

What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?

Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth

I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing

Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker

Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered

Carebears should stop lying

George_Black

Azherae

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths

Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?

What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?

Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth

I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing

Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker

Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered

Carebears should stop lying

Oh, that's my bad, I was thinking too much in terms of things like data and statistics again and ignored the very obvious possibility that all the people who report being in lower percentiles and such are actually just lying in order to get an advantage over all the hardworking people who have the equitable experiences.

They really are crazy with their 'I want to win too!' and 'Can't I just get a fair chance?' and all that stuff, when they should just work harder than... all the other people saying that, to try to enjoy the game for what it is.

Got too into the data there, I guess. Good catch.

Nova_terra

Azherae wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths

Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?

What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?

Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth

I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing

Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker

Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered

Carebears should stop lying

Oh, that's my bad, I was thinking too much in terms of things like data and statistics again and ignored the very obvious possibility that all the people who report being in lower percentiles and such are actually just lying in order to get an advantage over all the hardworking people who have the equitable experiences.

They really are crazy with their 'I want to win too!' and 'Can't I just get a fair chance?' and all that stuff, when they should just work harder than... all the other people saying that, to try to enjoy the game for what it is.

Got too into the data there, I guess. Good catch.

Never get too in the data there bud. Carebear mentality. @Azherae

Arya_Yeshe

Azherae wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths

Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?

What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?

Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth

I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing

Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker

Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered

Carebears should stop lying

Oh, that's my bad, I was thinking too much in terms of things like data and statistics again and ignored the very obvious possibility that all the people who report being in lower percentiles and such are actually just lying in order to get an advantage over all the hardworking people who have the equitable experiences.

They really are crazy with their 'I want to win too!' and 'Can't I just get a fair chance?' and all that stuff, when they should just work harder than... all the other people saying that, to try to enjoy the game for what it is.

Got too into the data there, I guess. Good catch.

Yes, people lie almost always, some people even open support tickets asking the items to be refunded

I mean, it's not about working hard!

It's about reaching out and making friends, the "evil" people in the bushes are actually really nice overall

Befriend what you fear
Social skills are the best skills

Nova_terra

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths

Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?

What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?

Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth

I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing

Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker

Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered

Carebears should stop lying

You explained stealth pvp in a nutshell and I am very familiar with it, but you only state carebears should stop lying?

There are always losers in this scenario and with 50% winning, 50% must be losing which is fine in a PvP game and I encourage such games (I play many competitive non-MMO PvP games), and no one said dying is not part of the "progression" or "fun". But this game has stated gear is a pretty important part of progression, and again I can guarantee you anyone going to this island is showing up full caveman with a level 5 sword and no armor which again... what is the point of the island in this scenario.

(I am aware this wasn't your idea but you are currently the one engaging in this discussion regarding how this is a good idea @Arya_Yeshe)

Arya_Yeshe

@Nova_terra yes! The carebears lie about that they couldn't do anything to avoid their deaths, the other lie is that they can't progress in the game because of dying so much and they lie about leaving the game because of it

They die to campers because they lack social skills, it has nothing to do with their character level

People always have the chance of scouting, getting intel, being aware, banding together or running away... that's the bare minimal and WITHIN EVERYBODY'S REACH

Carebears build their outcry based on lies, nobody ever was blocked from progressing for over a few minutes in PvP... but in PvE you can block people's progress for hours or maybe even the entire weekend

This happened to me in WoW a lot, but I never cried about it, I banded together with other people, brought inteland killed the gankers or ran away

PLUS: people come for the game and stay for the people, if you play as a bot playing a single player game and just grind non stop this will burn you and you will leave the game

Usually grinders leave the game because the game becomes a second job, then if they get ganked a couple times they lie about the reason why they left

Azherae

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

@Nova_terra yes! The carebears lie about that they couldn't do anything to avoid their deaths, the other lie is that they can't progress in the game because of dying so much and they lie about leaving the game because of it

They die to campers because they lack social skills, it has nothing to do with their character level

People always have the chance of scouting, getting intel, being aware, banding together or running away... that's the bare minimal and WITHIN EVERYBODY'S REACH

Carebears build their outcry based on lies, nobody ever was blocked from progressing for over a few minutes in PvP... but in PvP you can block people's progress for hours or maybe even the entire weekend

This happened to me in WoW a lot, but I never cried about it, I banded together with other people, brought inteland killed the gankers or ran away

I'd just like to say that I'm really thankful that you're on the forums as such an upstanding and outspoken representative of this demographic.

I have sometimes felt in the past that it might be hard to convince people that there were players out there like you, or that such players would have interest in Ashes or want to contribute on such a level to its potential direction.

But you prove time and time again that you are not going to back down, and will consistently express these concepts without concern for what others may think of you. I can only hope that Intrepid looks at the things you say, and how you say them, and make the right decisions for this game based on that.

Anyways I'd like to highlight the critical part of your post, so everyone remembers the methodology.

"Either make more allies until you can figure out a way to win, or run away."

Arya_Yeshe

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

nobody ever was blocked from progressing for over a few minutes in PvP... but in PvE you can block people's progress for hours or maybe even the entire weekend

Arya_Yeshe

@Azherae I mean, I did everything in every game I played and in the long run I must say this to the entire World:

Children knew how to play 30-40 years ago, with their friends, going to their friend's houses, playing at their backyards and strees, children knew how to work together for the fun of it

Nowadays people are lost, alone at home, people are forgetting how it is working together to do something for the sake of the content. Nowadays we see people joining a lobby just to grind gold and gear

We have to look back to the past and see that children were comming together just for the content, no child was hoarding anything

Arya_Yeshe

What I want from Intrepid is that they facilitate player driven content, so we can play as kids used to play 30 years ago, for the fun they could pull from that content

No child had in mind accumulating anything

Well, guess what, WoW came with it's grinds for gear and gold, this is unnatural if you are looking to have fun

Azherae

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

What I want from Intrepid is that they facilitate player driven content, so we can play as kids used to play 30 years ago, for the fun they could pull from that content

No child had in mind accumulating anything

Well, guess what, WoW came with it's grinds for gear and gold, this is unnatural if you are looking to have fun

Well, except all those kids that got bullied, but those were all probably just...

Well, you know.

The point is that you dust yourself off or wash the toilet-water out of your hair, go make friends with the right people, and handle your situation, right?

Arya_Yeshe

In every game I played I joined the "evil" people and they were in general the nicest and funniest people I met in every game

In the other hand, where I found toxicity was around people who were stressed out about min maxing, gear, gold per hour, meta play. There's were most of the drama happened

Arya_Yeshe

Azherae wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

What I want from Intrepid is that they facilitate player driven content, so we can play as kids used to play 30 years ago, for the fun they could pull from that content

No child had in mind accumulating anything

Well, guess what, WoW came with it's grinds for gear and gold, this is unnatural if you are looking to have fun

Well, except all those kids that got bullied, but those were all probably just...

Well, you know.

The point is that you dust yourself off or wash the toilet-water out of your hair, go make friends with the right people, and handle your situation, right?

MMOs are social games

If you play like a bot aspirant solo player, you are wasting all the potential that comes from being with people

Arya_Yeshe

What Ashes has to do is addressing the content in proper manner
If that's done, people will figure out what to do!

The games that failed, they failed because content mismanagement
Sometimes the mechanics are there and the systems are there, but people can't wrap the content around their heads and they leave

Ludullu

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

In every game I played I joined the "evil" people and they were in general the nicest and funniest people I met in every game

Have you ever stopped to think that they were nice and funny to you just because you were "evil" too?

Arya_Yeshe

NiKr wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

In every game I played I joined the "evil" people and they were in general the nicest and funniest people I met in every game

Have you ever stopped to think that they were nice and funny to you just because you were "evil" too?

hahaha that's funny

but it's not the case, people on Teamspeak and Discord were always vibbing, laughing, telling jokes and being polite

but in the carebearing communities it was very common having some drama and stress, specially drama

Nova_terra

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

In every game I played I joined the "evil" people and they were in general the nicest and funniest people I met in every game

Have you ever stopped to think that they were nice and funny to you just because you were "evil" too?

hahaha that's funny

but it's not the case, people on Teamspeak and Discord were always vibbing, laughing, telling jokes and being polite

but in the carebearing communities it was very common having some drama and stress, specially drama

It seems very easy to you to extrapolate your experience as the experience of all in who you are interacting with. I have seen my fair share of guilds/groups/discord groups etc and you can usually pick the toxic people out of a line up and in my experience these are the people not laughing, not vibing, and not being polite. While I've also been in PvE carebear guilds that only want to chase pve progression and been surrounded with people being kind, friendly, and making an extremely welcoming space. I have also been in PvP guilds that have played to their interests and have been kind, friendly, and welcoming.

It's striking to me that all the drama and stress usually comes from people who feel they need to compensate, and in my experience that is almost exclusively found in those insecure pvpers.

Guess we can chalk this one up to different experiences in two long MMO careers.

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