novercalis wrote: » this is why I wish AoC / Steven took the Everquest approach on questing. Hard to find Quest Givers - you gotta actually type in key phrases for them to give out quest. Therefor it forces players to read the story. No Quest Guide UI that gives you the answer. you actually had to remember what the quest is about and decipher the context clue as to where you might need to go. People ended up paying attention.
NiKr wrote: » novercalis wrote: » this is why I wish AoC / Steven took the Everquest approach on questing. Hard to find Quest Givers - you gotta actually type in key phrases for them to give out quest. Therefor it forces players to read the story. No Quest Guide UI that gives you the answer. you actually had to remember what the quest is about and decipher the context clue as to where you might need to go. People ended up paying attention. As much as I'd want this and would love it, in this day and age the absolute majority would just go look up a guide and there'd probably be some 3rd party app that tells you what to do step by step. The only way to avoid that is to completely randomize word/action requirements of personal quests. The main quest line could be the same and simple, but every other quest would have random details that can't be put into a guide. But I'm, like, 90% sure people would COMPLAIN at length if this was the case
novercalis wrote: » let them complain.... "this game isnt for you" will be the respond. Funny enough - EQ quest guides still has you reading practically the same thing what the npc tells you.
NiKr wrote: » novercalis wrote: » let them complain.... "this game isnt for you" will be the respond. Funny enough - EQ quest guides still has you reading practically the same thing what the npc tells you. Both of those activities take a fair bit of time, while pretty much 99.9% of the oldschoolers have families or at the very least full lives, so their playtime is limited. And when you add the potential of someone else attacking them while they're reading quest text or grinding mobs - that time becomes even shorter.
Strevi wrote: » Also back in the city, while safe, players should have a better way to review story elements, than games typically offer.
NiKr wrote: » Strevi wrote: » Also back in the city, while safe, players should have a better way to review story elements, than games typically offer. Except even cities aren't safe
NiKr wrote: » novercalis wrote: » let them complain.... "this game isnt for you" will be the respond. Funny enough - EQ quest guides still has you reading practically the same thing what the npc tells you. There's a thin line for Intrepid to walk when it comes to the "this ain't for you" approach. If we assume that Intrepid do in fact want to mainly target the older audience who remember old mmos and might even love their designs, we should also consider that not all of those old mmos were the same. So while some oldschooler might think fondly of long quest texts that didn't give you a direction, the other oldschooler would only remember the days of grinding they had to do because they couldn't be bothered to read those texts. Both of those activities take a fair bit of time, while pretty much 99.9% of the oldschoolers have families or at the very least full lives, so their playtime is limited. And when you add the potential of someone else attacking them while they're reading quest text or grinding mobs - that time becomes even shorter. And at this point we gotta ask ourselves, do we tell the biggest potential target audience "this game is not for you" or do we cut a few corners here and there to at least not drive those people away. The corruption system is supposed to cut the corner on the grind side of content, so imo it'd be only logical to cut a corner on the questing side too. There's obviously the artisanal part of the equation, but we got 0 info outside of the "you can cut wood and rock" stuff, so it's hard to determine whether there's corners that need to be cut.
novercalis wrote: » Steven audience isnt the mass audience. HE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE but is building on the notion of "this game isnt for everyone". He isnt here to make money - if it does - icing on the cake for him.
NiKr wrote: » novercalis wrote: » Steven audience isnt the mass audience. HE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE but is building on the notion of "this game isnt for everyone". He isnt here to make money - if it does - icing on the cake for him. That's my whole point though. His target audience are the people who remember those old mmos that were exactly as you described. But for those people the life is now different, so even if they preferred those kinds of games before, they physically can't do the same stuff now. And like I said, the corruption system is there to prevent mass killings of people who're just chilling and as for grind, Steven did say that they want to try and move away from the repetitive design of pve grind. And the sees are not full loot, they just have no corruption, though I do think that sees will be more of a guild type of thing rather than a solo one. My point is mainly about how small the target audience will be if every single part of the game pushes people away in some way. We all know that the game will be niche, but there's a scale of how niche it can be and I'd prefer Ashes to be closer to the top than to the bottom. And so far it seems like Intrepid are trying to achieve the same thing, and I think that having super complex and hard to parse quest design would be detrimental to the game in the long run.
novercalis wrote: » NiKr wrote: » novercalis wrote: » let them complain.... "this game isnt for you" will be the respond. Funny enough - EQ quest guides still has you reading practically the same thing what the npc tells you. There's a thin line for Intrepid to walk when it comes to the "this ain't for you" approach. If we assume that Intrepid do in fact want to mainly target the older audience who remember old mmos and might even love their designs, we should also consider that not all of those old mmos were the same. So while some oldschooler might think fondly of long quest texts that didn't give you a direction, the other oldschooler would only remember the days of grinding they had to do because they couldn't be bothered to read those texts. Both of those activities take a fair bit of time, while pretty much 99.9% of the oldschoolers have families or at the very least full lives, so their playtime is limited. And when you add the potential of someone else attacking them while they're reading quest text or grinding mobs - that time becomes even shorter. And at this point we gotta ask ourselves, do we tell the biggest potential target audience "this game is not for you" or do we cut a few corners here and there to at least not drive those people away. The corruption system is supposed to cut the corner on the grind side of content, so imo it'd be only logical to cut a corner on the questing side too. There's obviously the artisanal part of the equation, but we got 0 info outside of the "you can cut wood and rock" stuff, so it's hard to determine whether there's corners that need to be cut. Bro - AoC has Loot PVP - that line has been breached. This game has never been intended to be the WoW Killer or accure a shit ton of players. Steven on record hopes for the best but is aware this game isnt gonna be everyone cup of tea. Slow pace, grind pve, full loot sea, open world pvp and very little fast travel spots. Nowaday gamers addicts who wants their dopamine hits every 30 seconds arent gonna like this game at all with it's current direction. Steven audience isnt the mass audience. HE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE but is building on the notion of "this game isnt for everyone". He isnt here to make money - if it does - icing on the cake for him.
