PVP , will fight or die be our only choices?

In past streams and interviews Steven said that there would be indicators to show stealthed / invisible players. I think this would be a big mistake. In open world pvp there needs to be more options other that fight or die. I think UO did a very good job in this regard. (yeah I'm old) Back then a player had choices when engaging with a pk. You could fight, run, hide , recall, etc. I think true stealth / invisibility would give players another option when it comes to pvp. It would also made the game more exciting, never knowing if you are going to be ambushed just running from one town to another, and make those skills more that just pve skills. But the point of this post is that if fight or die are our only two options, then pvp will likely become annoying rather than exciting.

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Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

Right. I'm not just replying for you.
I'm just sharing for everyone that different players have different ideas of griefing entails.
And a lot of that depends on playstyle.

Yea that's fair and true, but we should be going off of Steven's recent definition of griefing when it comes down to designing the game.

Dygz

For Ashes, I think most of what you listed is within the scope of the game design - which is one of the reasons I don't consider it griefing.

Triggering negative raid mechanics on purpose might be.... but it would have to be repetitive, according to Steven's definition - and really only counts it's a member of the raid... in which case you can kick them out of the raid, so... then would not count as griefing.

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

For Ashes, I think most of what you listed is within the scope of the game design - which is one of the reasons I don't consider it griefing.

Triggering negative raid mechanics on purpose might be.... but it would have to be repetitive, according to Steven's definition - and really only counts it's a member of the raid... in which case you can kick them out of the raid, so... then would not count as griefing.

It all comes down to repetition. Even with PKing. Doing anything just a few times and leaving wouldn't be griefing. It's when you keep doing it over and over to be a nuisance to someone.

Strevi

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

The more I see people talk about this, the more interested (but less excited) I am to TEST it.

Because I don't want to judge the corruption system beforehand, but the simplistic explanation we got, means that after literally years of thinking about it and seeing the discussions, I've finally come to the conclusion that it's definitely innately flawed and should be done better.

Basically, I no longer feel like 'just tweaking the numbers' is going to achieve the goal of even Ashes itself unless the goal is to stop people from PK-ing generally.

I'm actually fine with that, I like that game type too, but if they want the 'Dynamic world of risk', I am getting the feeling the current Corruption system ain't gonna be it.

Yeah, I feel like that's one of the reasons why Steven added the seas and the ruins (and might add more).

Variation is better than a uniform game rule everywhere.
It could help playing for a long time.

novercalis

Dolyem wrote: »

novercalis wrote: »

1) if someone griefing you - they must be flagged right? so free kill no corruption.

I can think of many ways to grief without flagging.

-tagging mobs when a player attempts to pull
It becomes a DPS race - do it constantly and intentionally - It may be reportable for harassment since you're literally following me around

-pulling more mobs to a player fighting so they aggro and die
has a potential to break TOS - reportable, your ban im not.

-camping resources they are after
Is this really griefing if you beat me to it? lol

-body blocking
Inertia and momentum physics will help prevent blocking doorways/access points.

-with the environment management system I can just gather everything in sight to affect the nodes resource spawn.
In it's current form, yes. We need to wait and see how this gets resolved as this is a topic everyone had a month ago

-camping specific mobs preventing others from getting them
I will contest you. DPS Race - just cause you tagged it doesnt mean I can outdps you and claim loot rights. Once again, you might have gotten to the camp before me anyways - I might just move on.

-triggering negative raid mechanics on purpose
Might be breach of ToS - intended game play / intentional griefing

All of these warrant an ass kicking in game. Make the punishment too high for dealing with them, and then it's a shitshow. And I can do many of these as a low level player.

See Answers in BOLD.

Honestly each of those I countered. The only viable "grief" would have been Ninja Looting, as there isnt anything IS can do to punish a player AFIAK. This comes down to Reputation and in a server of 10k... no one is gonna give a shit and remember your name. Had it been a 2-3k, maybe 5k server - People will remember.

10k online players with a potential 50k pool - ninjalooting might be rampart.
hence on a different topic - 1 character per server - in the event your name gets remembered or on a list, you're fucked.

Ludullu

novercalis wrote: »

10k online players with a potential 50k pool - ninjalooting might be rampart.
hence on a different topic - 1 character per server - in the event your name gets remembered or on a list, you're fucked.

Doesn't ninjalooting only works with random groups or shittyly comprised guilds who also let anyone pick loot up? The reputation will work within/among guilds and maybe in nodes. So unless you have the time/resources to level up a full account of characters that can be accepted into a strong guild that would be farming bosses worth ninjalooting - ya ain't really escaping your reputation.

Okeydoke

Settite wrote: »

That's how you kill any pvp against a green; making pvp essentially toggle. I'd never want to take the risk and I have a decent amount of free time so I can only imagine what someone who has a 9-5 and a family would think when reading that.

Yeah that's the same thing I see.

Azherae wrote: »

I'm actually fine with that, I like that game type too, but if they want the 'Dynamic world of risk', I am getting the feeling the current Corruption system ain't gonna be it.

I have almost completely lost sight of their vision. "Dynamic world of risk," "Risk vs reward, " "Contesting of resources." Like, how? Who? Based on recent statements, corruption system is going to be so harsh it's going to be a non factor, very very rarely used, and only useable by elites/no lifers.

Soo...guild and node wars will add these things? We don't know how restrictive those systems are. We don't even know if there is loot drop in those systems.

Caravans? We don't know if caravans are going to be the type of thing that happens dozens of times on a given server in a given week, or hundreds. Or single digits. Literally no idea. And why would anyone caravan with the risk of losing 100%, when you can just mule things with virtually no risk of being attacked, and even if you are killed, only 25-50% loss. Like what.

And then you have the lawless open sea, which if you have any experience with sea based pvp, you know that pvp can be hard to come by on the sea. Very slow, very plodding, can potentially be hours in between fights. I mean who knows what Intrepid's implementation will be like, we'll see.

Honestly, in a very technical sense just based off what we know, I can't even say how much pvp will actually be in this game, much less "dynamic world of risk and contesting of resources."

I think the corruption system may be on it's way out, with a more themeparkesque framework of pvp on the way in. Or I'm just missing something in their vision. Really not sure.

Dolyem

novercalis wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

novercalis wrote: »

1) if someone griefing you - they must be flagged right? so free kill no corruption.

I can think of many ways to grief without flagging.

-tagging mobs when a player attempts to pull
It becomes a DPS race - do it constantly and intentionally - It may be reportable for harassment since you're literally following me around

-pulling more mobs to a player fighting so they aggro and die
has a potential to break TOS - reportable, your ban im not.

-camping resources they are after
Is this really griefing if you beat me to it? lol

-body blocking
Inertia and momentum physics will help prevent blocking doorways/access points.

-with the environment management system I can just gather everything in sight to affect the nodes resource spawn.
In it's current form, yes. We need to wait and see how this gets resolved as this is a topic everyone had a month ago

-camping specific mobs preventing others from getting them
I will contest you. DPS Race - just cause you tagged it doesnt mean I can outdps you and claim loot rights. Once again, you might have gotten to the camp before me anyways - I might just move on.

-triggering negative raid mechanics on purpose
Might be breach of ToS - intended game play / intentional griefing

All of these warrant an ass kicking in game. Make the punishment too high for dealing with them, and then it's a shitshow. And I can do many of these as a low level player.

See Answers in BOLD.

Honestly each of those I countered. The only viable "grief" would have been Ninja Looting, as there isnt anything IS can do to punish a player AFIAK. This comes down to Reputation and in a server of 10k... no one is gonna give a shit and remember your name. Had it been a 2-3k, maybe 5k server - People will remember.

10k online players with a potential 50k pool - ninjalooting might be rampart.
hence on a different topic - 1 character per server - in the event your name gets remembered or on a list, you're fucked.

All of your claims to bans could also be applied to PKing... the whole point is to make it so the playerbase can prevent it instead of relying on Intrepid to intervene. Corruption deters rampant PK griefing. The non rampant PKs allow for management of the rest of the things I listed. And as I said before, none of these things are griefing unless they are done repeatedly with the intention of causing grief, including PKing. So still, causing someone who gets corrupted to have to spend days grinding is a terrible idea, it may very well be in retaliation for one of the things I listed.

akabear

Hope AoC throw in a wildcard or two

https://youtube.com/shorts/-xybfNp0jCk

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