Splinter Topic: EXP Per Kill

So, one of the things I liked most about Alpha-1 was that it used the EXP per kill system that I'm used to from my favorite game.

Kill an enemy at your level solo and get 100 exp.

Kill an enemy 5 levels above you solo and get 300-400 exp.

Kill an enemy 8 levels above you solo and get 550 exp (it seemed like it capped here, so I didn't bother killing things 9-10 levels over, and they were hard to find because technically unless you sat around waiting for exactly those ones and only those ones, you'd level up too fast to get good data).

But Intrepid is always taking feedback and things are always subject to change, so I'm kind of interested to know if most people would want this changed, since I'm still really looking forward to it.

Games that just give a relatively flat exp value per enemy tend to have 'grind efficiency calculations' that I dislike, but maybe I've just never experienced it in a good way?

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Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

Mob design could fix this (and later, often did), but it was a definite large flaw that influenced the 'common leveling paths' in the game quite negatively. I hope to see nothing on that scale in Ashes, but they don't even HAVE a system for this, so I expect it will have L2 style solutions instead.

That's the issue though, L2 didn't have those solutions either

9-lvl difference between party members would prevent the lowest player from getting XP, so I guess that's a "solution"? But you'd usually just get around that with a few farming alts set up at different lvl ranges and just send the leveling group from one to another.

Ashes will definitely have things a bit more difficult due to nodes changing and no TPs between them, so it would just take more time to go through the whole process. I'll mainly keep any potential feedback to myself until we see more about the mentor program and XPing balancing.

Voxtrium

Just to butt in here, In terms of group exp vs solo exp I think that groups should be rewarded exp multipliers for being in a group. A huge part about how AOC specifically will function is based on people working together and against each other, to some degree those interactions NEED to happen even if the cost is some strife because in the long run those interactions will keep Verra feeling alive.

My overarching logic is that the more players interact with each other the more often natural political events will happen. If you have a team of friends you play with, you also have a team that you can complete more difficult global events with. The more people that have that kind of team the more interactions they will create and thus a more lively and dynamic world.

We don't want EVE online as someone pointed out in a separate thread.

Spif

One strike against massive XP per high level mob is that people will figure out how to cheese that encounter pretty quickly through any number of means: PL with a higher level friend that CCs/taunts after you pull, abuse pathing mechanics, etc.

There needs to be some limit on it. Given the baseline of 100xp per kill of same level mobs, there should be a hard cap of 200xp per kill per individual in a group. So if you're in a duo, you would fight slightly higher level mobs so you both are close to cap. In a group of 8 you could fight groups of much higher level mobs.

As far as dungeons, I think the xp cap should also apply there. You'd go there for faster respawns/larger groups or for better loot.

XP multipliers per group are good, they just need to respect the xp cap. For example, solo you get 100xp for a same-level mob. In a duo you would each get 60xp, so 20% bonus. Solo you hit the cap at +3 levels. In a duo you hit the cap at +5 levels (numbers made up)

Voxtrium

Spif wrote: »

One strike against massive XP per high level mob is that people will figure out how to cheese that encounter pretty quickly through any number of means: PL with a higher level friend that CCs/taunts after you pull, abuse pathing mechanics, etc.

There needs to be some limit on it. Given the baseline of 100xp per kill of same level mobs, there should be a hard cap of 200xp per kill per individual in a group. So if you're in a duo, you would fight slightly higher level mobs so you both are close to cap. In a group of 8 you could fight groups of much higher level mobs.

As far as dungeons, I think the xp cap should also apply there. You'd go there for faster respawns/larger groups or for better loot.

XP multipliers per group are good, they just need to respect the xp cap. For example, solo you get 100xp for a same-level mob. In a duo you would each get 60xp, so 20% bonus. Solo you hit the cap at +3 levels. In a duo you hit the cap at +5 levels (numbers made up)

Actually I would expect that AOC has a exponential leveling exp requirement so I would instead suggest a similarly ramping exp gain that has a max value based on the level of the character farming it.

(just using random numbers)
For example a level 5 can farm a level 10 and get 100 standard exp plus 200 bonus, a level 20 can farm a level 30 with a 1000 bonus and a level 45 can farm a level 50 with a 2500 bonus. Of course the maximum gain is dictated per level, so a level 5 farming a level 50 still only gets a 200 bonus, that way cheesing content isn't required to maximize EXP gain while still encouraging players to farm the higher tier mobs if capable.

Percimes

NiKr wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

I think it should always be a net positive to grind xp in a group, even if it's just 2, 3 4 people.

I'm kinda against small parties having x1.+ because this would probably lead to 2-3-man groups just farming solo mobs super fast with better xp than if they were doing it solo. And this usually destroys the whole point of a solo location. People can always find a group in a solo location, but when they do they should be highly encouraged to move to a better location because they can now farm better mobs.

The simplest way to prevent this would be to tune the spawn rates too slow for a small group to find the spot worthwhile to stay. They would wait too long between respawns. Same for character too high level for the spot. A few soloers wouldn't be affected as much, in a way longer respawns make a spot safer to solo as there are fewer surprises mob popping out while you fight.

Ludullu

Percimes wrote: »

The simplest way to prevent this would be to tune the spawn rates too slow for a small group to find the spot worthwhile to stay. They would wait too long between respawns. Same for character too high level for the spot. A few soloers wouldn't be affected as much, in a way longer respawns make a spot safer to solo as there are fewer surprises mob popping out while you fight.

I guess this could be tested and balanced, but, as much as Intrepid wants everyone to group up, there's gonna be a ton of solo players. Solo locations will probably be somewhat limited, cause dungeons (or just open group areas) will have the best loots. If you pack enough solos into one location, that slow respawn rate will create a ton of waiting between mobs and then a ton of conflict for each mob that respawns.

And while I'd love this to be the case and some oldschoolers might prefer the chill farming with waiting times between mobs, I'm not sure how many solo players would be satisfied with that kind of gameplay.

I'm not saying to change the game just to appease all the solos, but I feel like designing this stuff in a way where it detracts groups but doesn't stand in the way of good solo play would be much better. L2 tried to do this by spawning loot-less mobs that would attack anyone who was farming a solo location while in a group, but I think that's also bad design.

novercalis

mix feeling and I just hope A1 wasnt tuned as intended - just having something out there for A1 folks.

Do I believe you should get more xp fighting higher lvl mob? yes

do I believe - assuming solo - killing something 3 level higher than you? NO

Hell, I believe you got a 65% chance fighting something EQUAL level as you
One level above you = 45%
2 levels above you = 25%
3+ = Death

p99/EQ EXP data is out there - it was based on mob lvl -
https://wiki.project1999.com/Experience_table

and leveling / dying was based on a % of previous level.
I suspect the XP DEBT will be based on this formula

https://wiki.project1999.com/Experience#Experience_Requirement_by_Level

Azherae

novercalis wrote: »

mix feeling and I just hope A1 wasnt tuned as intended - just having something out there for A1 folks.

Do I believe you should get more xp fighting higher lvl mob? yes

do I believe - assuming solo - killing something 3 level higher than you? NO

Hell, I believe you got a 65% chance fighting something EQUAL level as you
One level above you = 45%
2 levels above you = 25%
3+ = Death

p99/EQ EXP data is out there - it was based on mob lvl -
https://wiki.project1999.com/Experience_table

and leveling / dying was based on a % of previous level.
I suspect the XP DEBT will be based on this formula

https://wiki.project1999.com/Experience#Experience_Requirement_by_Level

It's all the same to me, really.

There's always a point at which it becomes 'death' and a point at which it is 'expected'.

I believe the last time we had this discussion it was also implied that there were quite a few classes that could go beyond your wishes/expectations within EQ.

And similarly, FFXI is the same. For a very long time, most players could NOT beat anything 3 levels over them, and 'even match' WAS a coinflip for people until they got quite geared. Don't take my numbers as meaningful, I am one of those 'insanely practiced soloers' in these games.

If you wanted to get it to the point where 3+ was killing ME, then in all arrogance, at-level opponents would just stomp the regular playerbase.

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