Hybrid combat system?

I'm a bit confused about the combat system and i'm looking for a bit of clarification.
In past videos i've seen mentioned that in AoC there is both a tab-targeting combat system and an action combat system and you can choose which one to use.
In more recent video although it seems the developers are going for a mix of the 2 and thus we’ll not be able to choose which one to use.
So, what the actual situation right now?
Which direction are they taking?

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Taleof2Cities

Voeltz wrote: »

I'm writing off action combat as it has taken a backseat to early 2000s gameplay in 2023.

Huh?

There are quite a few popular MMOs that have both action combat and a high monthly playerbase in 2023.

Regardless, Ashes is planning to have a hybrid system ... regardless of what decade you live in.

Voeltz

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Huh?

There are quite a few popular MMOs that have both action combat and a high monthly playerbase in 2023.

Regardless, Ashes is planning to have a hybrid system ... regardless of what decade you live in.

Lol, you're so lost. I'm not arguing against action combat. Best just to move on. Clearly you're not following this conversation.

Voeltz

Solvryn wrote: »

Most diehard tab players call it more action than tab, most diehard action players call it more tab than action.

It's an actual hybrid with the way it calculates damage.

I suppose a 99% tab target game could still be called hybrid as long as it has 1% action. Based on everything I've seen so far, almost all abilities or attacks can be used with hardlock* in both combat modes, which is still basically tab targeting lock on.

There is an option to go in action mode and use soft lock, but it's more of an afterthought in their design. Is anyone actually going to use it though? Probably not when a more convenient targeting method exists. It's Aimbot or aim assist. People will choose what is more effective+convenient when given the choice.

Mag7spy

Pretty big different between needing to look at your targets direction and track than just press tab or select and have your target locked on the entire time. Trying to say they are the same and it doesn't matter is silly.

Nothing is wrong with aim assist, if you are trying to compare it, I'd be saying tab is an aim bot.

Whole point of action is to be more in the moment of the combat and those actions of need to look in the direction and do some kind of tracking make a big deal when it comes to gameplay.

Kilion

daveywavey wrote: »

Does make me wonder how the 75% thing will work if skills can be used as either.

I think you can change it via the skill tree, even though I fail to remember where I heard that from

Another thing to consider is that the hotbar is going to fit 15-20 skills tops, which would mean that 11-15 of the skills your archetype will grant you in total could be action / tab target skills to begin with. Something like the Tanks "Grit" skill - which is neither - making up for the remaining 5-10 skills that are available to you.

Voeltz

Mag7spy wrote: »

Pretty big different between needing to look at your targets direction and track than just press tab or select and have your target locked on the entire time. Trying to say they are the same and it doesn't matter is silly.

No, it really isn't. Selecting a target with tab (hardlock) is almost the exact same thing as aiming in a targets general direction and pressing a key to lock on (also hardlock). 1 additional step compared to just pressing a key. Looking at your target is not some monumental task like you make it out to be. For most people this should come naturally.

Nothing is wrong with aim assist, if you are trying to compare it, I'd be saying tab is an aim bot.

I never said anything Is wrong with it. I'd be more than happy if they removed both forms of hardlock and kept softlock (aim assist). That is exactly what I said in my last post if you read it. Maybe you're getting confused because I said 'autolock' but meant hardlock. I corrected it tho

Whole point of action is to be more in the moment of the combat and those actions of need to look in the direction and do some kind of tracking make a big deal when it comes to gameplay.

Yes, that is part of why Action is the better option. Hardlock or Tab target in MMOs is the equivalent of Aimbot in shooters. How anyone could sit there with a straight face and say that is a good thing to have in the game is baffling. These people want to play on very easy mode.

Solvryn

It's a fruitless effort to discuss combat with people who haven't taken the time to understand calculations and how game design works in 3d space.

Vaknar

daveywavey wrote: »

This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Hybrid_combat

TLDR:
"A toggle button (default Z, but can be re-bound to another key) allows the player to switch between action and tab combat modes.[7][8][9][10]"

"The action mode camera is tied to the to the player's reticle.[11][12]"

"If you're in a massive brawl, the ability to pick and choose targets that are far in the back line that might might be more advantageous towards tab target users because they're able to click, but the reaction time to acquire a target for a cursor versus acquiring a target for a reticle is much faster and less cumbersome because it doesn't require as many actions on behalf of the user.[17] – Steven Sharif"

"Templated and targeted versions of skills will have different characteristics.[2][7][18][19][20]"

I believe the current plan is for there to be a max of 75% of your skill-bar that can be one particular type.

🙌✊ Nice use of the wiki and thank you for providing a helpful answer!

Sauronplay

It is ridiculous to opt for hybrid combat, it makes no sense today, target combat will be completely obsolete when this game is released.

Intrepid should opt for action combat, not because boomers like it and find it easier to play due to their lack of motor skills on the mouse and keyboard. Strictly due to the fact that pvp will be totally useless with target combat.

Dygz

Tab target combat will not be obsolete for RPGs any time soon.
How that affects PvP is one of the reasons that PvP is not a great fit for RPGs.

Sauronplay

Dygz wrote: »

Tab target combat will not be obsolete for RPGs any time soon.
How that affects PvP is one of the reasons that PvP is not a great fit for RPGs.

Nobody uses it unless you are elderly or middle-aged, or have motor difficulties in using the mouse and keyboard. It is totally useless today.

Action combat is the future and always will be.

Noaani

Sauronplay wrote: »

Action combat is the future and always will be.

Tab and action combat offer different playstyles. It isn't just a case of which is physically easier as you are suggesting - tab allows for developers to increase the decision making aspect of combat that is simply unavailable in action combat.

In action combat, what is important is that you make *A* decision and dont' stand still. From there, it is about fine motor skill. In a tab target game, should developers want it, the focus can be placed more on getting that first decision right, with what happens after that being more tied to that decision than to motor skill.

In many ways, the action/tab discussion in MMORPG's is similar to the real time vs turn based discussion in strategy games and in RPG combat. Much as in those genres, the likely thing we should expect is that the industry will largely swing like a pendulum between each side.

Right now the swing is on it's way back from being more towards the action side.

Depraved

no and no to the 2 posts above me xD

SoSpokeMika

What I would love to see is more telegraphed skill shot abilities like Scatter Shot (best ability so far IMO) which are useable in both tab and action combat.

So far, I am only seeing lots of tab target abilities.

CROW3

Sauronplay wrote: »

Nobody uses it unless you are elderly or middle-aged, or have motor difficulties in using the mouse and keyboard. It is totally useless today.

🤣

You nailed it. I mean except for more than half the top mmos currently in production, and half the mmos currently in development. But don’t let the evidence get in the way of the verdict.

Dygz

Sauronplay wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Tab target combat will not be obsolete for RPGs any time soon.
How that affects PvP is one of the reasons that PvP is not a great fit for RPGs.

Nobody uses it unless you are elderly or middle-aged, or have motor difficulties in using the mouse and keyboard. It is totally useless today.

Action combat is the future and always will be.

LMAO
Lots of elderly and middle-aged people play MMORPGs. At least 50% of the MMORPG population, if not more.
But... it's really an RPG genre thing and has little to do with age.

Tab-Target is character-based.
Action is player-based.
And RPGs are supposed to be about the prowess of the character skills, rather than the prowess of the player skills.

Otr

Dygz wrote: »

Sauronplay wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Tab target combat will not be obsolete for RPGs any time soon.
How that affects PvP is one of the reasons that PvP is not a great fit for RPGs.

Nobody uses it unless you are elderly or middle-aged, or have motor difficulties in using the mouse and keyboard. It is totally useless today.

Action combat is the future and always will be.

LMAO
Lots of elderly and middle-aged people play MMORPGs. At least 50% of the MMORPG population, if not more.

They help developing the game by buying the A2 key and cosmetics but they'll get a game young players like.

Otr

Sauronplay wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Tab target combat will not be obsolete for RPGs any time soon.
How that affects PvP is one of the reasons that PvP is not a great fit for RPGs.

Nobody uses it unless you are elderly or middle-aged, or have motor difficulties in using the mouse and keyboard. It is totally useless today.

Action combat is the future and always will be.

By the time AoC is released you will play with your grandchildren.

Diamaht

Sauronplay wrote: »

It is ridiculous to opt for hybrid combat, it makes no sense today, target combat will be completely obsolete when this game is released.

Intrepid should opt for action combat, not because boomers like it and find it easier to play due to their lack of motor skills on the mouse and keyboard. Strictly due to the fact that pvp will be totally useless with target combat.

It's really not a matter of obsolete, as if it were a technological advancement. It's just two different playstyles.

Tab targeting relies more on build and tactics, less on skill shots. Action is the opposite.

Not everyone wants to be a zoomer 24/7 when they settle in to play a game.

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