NiKr wrote: » Yeah, they changed it from "no pvp in freehold's footprint" to this. Don't really know why. It's not like the additional 2-3 seconds of running away would change things.
Blip wrote: » Carebears will always complaind and scream until they get there way. And ruin another game.
Noaani wrote: » Not only is this a good change, it was ide tidied by the community as a needed change about 4 years ago.
NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Not only is this a good change, it was ide tidied by the community as a needed change about 4 years ago. We don't know how exactly our freeholds will function and what will be required of us to build the freehold. Maybe everyone has to have a character-tall fence around your freehold's footprint, which would prevent you from shooting at people from inside of that footprint.
Voxtrium wrote: » This, or perhaps to enter a freehold you have to be out of combat. Character tall fence would need to prevent gliding mounts as well
Bladen wrote: » What!? I thought freehold's were entirely open to be attacked if your node falls. Why are houses off limits?
NiKr wrote: » The only thing this change brings is PKers killing random farmers and mount husbanders. I can already see people making alts (even super lowbie ones) and just going around killing people on their freeholds.
Noaani wrote: » I dont see this happening - unless I missed a comment about corruption not applying to PvP on freeholds. I mean, people are already complaining that corruption based PvP wont happen as things stand. Attacking someone on their freehold is the same as this, just without the prospect of being able to take over what ever it is they are farming - meaning it will happen even less.
NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » I dont see this happening - unless I missed a comment about corruption not applying to PvP on freeholds. I mean, people are already complaining that corruption based PvP wont happen as things stand. Attacking someone on their freehold is the same as this, just without the prospect of being able to take over what ever it is they are farming - meaning it will happen even less. It's gonna be rare in normal situations, where people are close to other players in farming/gathering locations. But freeholds will be the most anti-pvp gameplay, so majority of people would never expect getting killed there. And most likely freeholds will be quite away from any other players, because they'd be at some distance from mob spawns and quite likely some ways away from gatherables. And people are way more likely to afk around their freehold and also have valuable mats on their character, because they'd be using them around their freehold. Obviously people can just run back into their house if they're not afk, but then the PKer is preventing the player from enjoying their non-pvp gameplay. And while pvping someone around gatherables or mobs would be more understandable for people (considering it's an owpvp game), getting attacked literally on your land, while participating in the most solo-friendly content in the game, would feel really fucking bad. I'd imagine that majority of anti-pvp players would rather have a fence around their freehold than get attacked randomly on it.
Noaani wrote: » I mean, if you afk, be in your house. This isnt much of a reason at all. You have no real reason to have mats on you outside on your freehold - other than those you just harvested. Keep your crafting stations inside. Since you are right by your bulk storage, you can just offload your mats as you are harvesting. You really have no excuse to have much on you while on your freehold - to the point where people shouldn't expect to have much at all drop from people on their freehold. And sure, it would suck to be killed on your freehold, but imo that is no where near as bad as being attacked while trying to take on an actual difficult top end boss with your guild. These two situations are honestly not even in the same league in terms of how much each one would suck.
Noaani wrote: » And sure, it would suck to be killed on your freehold, but imo that is no where near as bad as being attacked while trying to take on an actual difficult top end boss with your guild. These two situations are honestly not even in the same league in terms of how much each one would suck.
Voxtrium wrote: » Noaani wrote: » I mean, if you afk, be in your house. This isnt much of a reason at all. You have no real reason to have mats on you outside on your freehold - other than those you just harvested. Keep your crafting stations inside. Since you are right by your bulk storage, you can just offload your mats as you are harvesting. You really have no excuse to have much on you while on your freehold - to the point where people shouldn't expect to have much at all drop from people on their freehold. And sure, it would suck to be killed on your freehold, but imo that is no where near as bad as being attacked while trying to take on an actual difficult top end boss with your guild. These two situations are honestly not even in the same league in terms of how much each one would suck. First off top tier processing will happen in freeholds so top tier gatherables will be held on players character all the time outside of their actual house but on their property.
Secondly your logic is because something is worse then it doesn't matter that something else is bad? I guess if the graphics are bad it doesn't matter if the combat is bad as well!
Nikr is absolutely right, if a player is working around their freehold and gets Pk'ed because they went to get a drink during their gaming session then thats going to feel really fucking bad, should they have ran into their house, sure I guess, should they have been killed? imo no
NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » And sure, it would suck to be killed on your freehold, but imo that is no where near as bad as being attacked while trying to take on an actual difficult top end boss with your guild. These two situations are honestly not even in the same league in terms of how much each one would suck. Well, to you, obviously that would be worse. But to any player who wants to go as hardcore into artisanry as you go into pve - they'd be as pissed off at getting attacked while doing that as you'd be when attacked on a boss.
You have some rare plants growing? The attacker will keep your nameplate at the lowest decay state and as soon as you even touch those plants - they kill you and loot you. You have some animals that you want to tend to? Attacked and killed and prevented from doing anything. Have some processing building outside that you gotta execute an intricate action to properly use? Killed.
And I forgot the main damn point. Green deaths come with the normal penalties. All that a shitty person would need to do is just get a few alts to the same freehold location, PK the freehold owner over and over and over again until your PK alts can no longer even damage them. Your alts wouldn't have any valuable at all too, so you'd lose literally nothing, while you'd shit on a unsuspecting artisan player. And to just reinforce your shittiness, you bring a friend who'll be ready to pvp the artisan player if they ever decide to fight back against your PK alt.
Noaani wrote: » ]Just do your processing inside. We have no reason at all to assume this won't be possible. If it turns out that it will be, then we ask for this to be changed.
Voxtrium wrote: » Uhm ok basic logic, who the fudge cakes would implement a multi tiered processing system that exist solely indoors after designing a freehold system?
Noaani wrote: » Voxtrium wrote: » Uhm ok basic logic, who the fudge cakes would implement a multi tiered processing system that exist solely indoors after designing a freehold system? Literally any sane developer anywhere in the world. Every game I have ever played that has had housing that has been able to hold crafting equipment has been able to have it indoors. There is literally no reason at all that this would reduce freehold customization at all, I have literally no idea at all what it is you are assuming that has led you to believe all of this.
Voxtrium wrote: » 6 Noaani wrote: » Voxtrium wrote: » Uhm ok basic logic, who the fudge cakes would implement a multi tiered processing system that exist solely indoors after designing a freehold system? Literally any sane developer anywhere in the world. Every game I have ever played that has had housing that has been able to hold crafting equipment has been able to have it indoors. There is literally no reason at all that this would reduce freehold customization at all, I have literally no idea at all what it is you are assuming that has led you to believe all of this. Yeah there will probably be SOME processing in doors but EVEN IF they did have processing indoors which I would bet money that some processing was required to be outside that still leaves, farming, animal husbandry, etc are these not requiring mats all of the sudden?
Noaani wrote: » The difference is, those people have a safe zone right next to them. Processing and crafting itself is likely to take place in that safe zone, it is only raw material production that will happen in the area that is open to PvP.
Noaani wrote: » I mean, just don't harvest materials if there is someone that close to you that you think is going to attack you.
Noaani wrote: » It is really unlikely that players would go to this length for profit. A single growth cycle on a freehold is not likely to be worth all of this effort. I mean a player on a freehold literally gets to chose when to harvest the materials they have grown or raised. It isn't like open world resources where they need to get them before someone else gets them. The freehold owner can just go off and do something else at literally zero loss to themself.
Noaani wrote: » Ashes is, if nothing else, a game where you can not always just assume you can do what you want, when you want. This change is 100% in line with that thinking.
Noaani wrote: » Voxtrium wrote: » 6 Noaani wrote: » Voxtrium wrote: » Uhm ok basic logic, who the fudge cakes would implement a multi tiered processing system that exist solely indoors after designing a freehold system? Literally any sane developer anywhere in the world. Every game I have ever played that has had housing that has been able to hold crafting equipment has been able to have it indoors. There is literally no reason at all that this would reduce freehold customization at all, I have literally no idea at all what it is you are assuming that has led you to believe all of this. Yeah there will probably be SOME processing in doors but EVEN IF they did have processing indoors which I would bet money that some processing was required to be outside that still leaves, farming, animal husbandry, etc are these not requiring mats all of the sudden? Yeah, but with all of these things, you only need to not be attacked while harvesting and bring the materials to your storage. Someone attacking you while you are tending to your crops/animals isn't going to get anything from you. As I have said in the past few posts, the owner of the freehold literally has 100% control over this. They can simply opt to not harvest their materials when there is a threat nearby. For the most part, people will very quickly realize that someone on their own freehold (or even near it) is likely to have basically no materials on them, as they are right beside their own bulk storage. People will VERY quickly learn that this is not the time to attack players for profit. I mean, imagine you are a train robber and you are going to rob, well, a train full of money. Do you attack it when it is full, or when it is empty? For the most part, players on their freehold will be empty, so anyone looking to attack someone for profit is going to be hanging out around resources where players will want to load up their inventory and head back to their storage, not around people that can gather two or three things and then empty it in to their storage. Quite honestly, all people need to do is apply some logic to the situation. Work out what both sides will do given the systems as we know them. You aren't going to sit on your freehold, right next to your storage, with a full inventory. If you know a player is able to do that, do you have any actual motivation to attack them and risk corruption for potentially a single resource of the type they are harvesting?
NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » The difference is, those people have a safe zone right next to them. Processing and crafting itself is likely to take place in that safe zone, it is only raw material production that will happen in the area that is open to PvP. That's a pretty big assumption, considering we have 0 info about processing gameplay or any of its requirements.
It's not even about profit, it's about fucking someone over and this exact change allows people who'd want to fuck others over to do so super easily.
It's all about preventing gameplay.
Oh, I'm all for "player vs player influence", but after all the damn enharshenings of the corruption system "to limit PKing as much as possible" they make a change that will most definitely lead to more PKing.
Voxtrium wrote: » So when people are completing tasks for animal husbandry they will be walking around without any valuables?
Also doesn't it just sound immersive when you think about getting attacked and using your movement ability to dash into your freehold! That sounds so fun and immersive! I would much rather just have a weird gate around my freehold that both signifies where my land starts and ends as well as gives me safety, include a requirement that no red or purple player may enter the freehold area and boom, now you have a nice immersive area that allows mega casuals, casuals, semi hardcore and hardcore players alike a small safe area to relax and not think about PVP for 5 seconds.
