I hope the CMs take into account that people are literally making alt accounts to spam their feedback. The comment above is one of Multiple fresh accounts created to comment on this thread that I've been looking at.
I noticed it on reddit too mate. We are under siege lol.
How do you feel about the size-and-shape inventory management system?
I really don't like the Tetris-style inventory. It's just too gimmicky. Having to play 'The Inventory Game' every time you pick something up just gets tedious, and seems so unnecessary.
How do you feel about the systems shown thus far for planting crops on your Freehold? Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
A little curious as to the PvP element of Freeholds. Given that the only safe place on the freehold is the house-building itself, does that mean that you can go to harvest your crops, be killed, and have them taken from you?
How do you feel about raising livestock and collecting resources from them? Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
I expected this to be part of the game. I don't think the pig-killing animation was at all excessive. Didn't show much, but presented what was happening. I think it was done nicely.
What kind of customization do you want with your Freehold, or buildings on your Freehold?
Placement, permissions (including access permissions - if I don't want someone on my freehold, I want to keep them out)
Is there anything in particular you’re excited about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
Just generally excited.
Is there anything in particular you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
The size seems rather large. I mean, I haven't seen it in relation to a Village yet, but there seemed to be a lot of empty open space. Would prefer it if they were a little smaller, and then you could maybe fit in even more of them.
Unsure about the plot-auction thing. Would likely just prefer a first-come first-served with a set price.
And yes, I liked the presentation of the information in the livestream. Splitting up the info into a presentation and a demonstration worked well.
Also, I’ve been waiting for the mmo that links its farming/ housing/ animal breeding situation to iOS, so I could do my farming while not at home. Just an idea.
Also, I’ve been waiting for the mmo that links its farming/ housing/ animal breeding situation to iOS, so I could do my farming while not at home. Just an idea.
Inventory: Gotta say I dislike this change. Been playing rpg for decades, I never liked shape/size tetris my inentory.
Using weight to control how much someone can carry is the way to go. If its not broke, dont fix it. No need to re-invent the wheel on every system there is from the rest of what the genre does.
What I mean is, take inspiration from what others have done very well, or just downright copy it (GW2 Inventory management *cough*)
I want to be able to organize the bags the way I want. I want to put extra potions over here, junk over there, food right here, and so on. I dont want to have to try to tetris things around to fit everytime I get something new, and then be searching for something when I forgot where I put it.
Freeholds. The processing change is nice actually, however. There needs to be more thought into acquisition.
As it is right now, either RMT, or only leaders of big guilds seem to be able to get them due to scarcity. With how Freeholds are linked to the economy with new processing change, this is really bad and I feel like you guys just brainstormed what would be optimal for encouraging player interaction, without following that method to the natural conclusion once players got ahold of the system to use.
There needs to be a way for smaller guilds and hard working solos to access processing without needing to rely on RMT. You said one of your promises about the game is that there is no pay to win, so let me see you keep that promise please, I have some massive concerns here.
And, I have some smaller concern about small guilds or hardworking solos being able to access non-instanced at all if they are too scarce. Will need to see it working to get a better idea, but do keep in mind the majority of your playerbase is not leaders of big guilds or officers high up in those big guilds. Don't want to start having people quit when they have no hope of ever doing something that is normally highly sought out in games (housing). And please dont sell me the line "Instanced Apartments no one else will be able to see in the world" is housing.
I hope the CMs take into account that people are literally making alt accounts to spam their feedback. The comment above is one of Multiple fresh accounts created to comment on this thread that I've been looking at.
Or this is an issue serious enough that people want to voice their concerns for the first time.
I hope the CMs take into account that people are literally making alt accounts to spam their feedback. The comment above is one of Multiple fresh accounts created to comment on this thread that I've been looking at.
Or this is an issue serious enough that people want to voice their concerns for the first time.
Each to their own and may the changes be bountiful.
I hope the CMs take into account that people are literally making alt accounts to spam their feedback. The comment above is one of Multiple fresh accounts created to comment on this thread that I've been looking at.
How do you tell a new person who has started following the game, from an alt of someone that already follows the game?
All cows have horns! It's just that humans dehorn them while young in a sometimes pretty brutal process.
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KrastyMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2023
The concept looks good, the changes are fine, only one thing worries me:
"Is there anything in particular you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?":
Obtaining freehold only after level 50. For me it is not a good because it will be stressful for people who want to get freehold immediately.
Stressful in the sense that they will literally have to powerlevel... this is also connected to "there are only going to be a few thousand freeholds" this will only add more reasons for quick leveling. I think that going in this direction is a bad decision and hopefully it will be proven during testing in A2.
anyway, I'm not for everyone to have everything... and personally, I'm among the players who level quickly, and crafting is not one of my favorite activities in MMORPG games . But in general, I would say that the Freehold concept is mainly an activity for casual players, who are usually not the fastest in leveling, and are engaged in horizontal activities in games, which is crafting/housing/farming/animal husbandry. So please think about what it's like for such a player.. what options does they have?
"Is there anything in particular you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?":
Obtaining freehold only after level 50. For me it is not a good because it will be stressful for people who want to get freehold immediately.
Stressful in the sense that they will literally have to powerlevel... this is also connected to "there are only going to be a few thousand freeholds" this will only add more reasons for quick leveling. I think that going in this direction is a bad decision and hopefully it will be proven during testing in A2.
Yeah, I was wondering what the idea was behind level-restricting it. Given that artisan-work gives XP, it's a valid method of levelling up. And lots of your artisan-work can be done on the freehold..... which you don't get until you're already levelled up.
Just seems odd to me. Maybe set it at Level 25 when we get our Secondary Archetype, or even Level 35. Just don't make it max level.
I hope the CMs take into account that people are literally making alt accounts to spam their feedback. The comment above is one of Multiple fresh accounts created to comment on this thread that I've been looking at.
According to my Gmail records I made my account in April 2021. This is the first time I’ve felt the urge to comment, because this is the first time there has been an update that makes me much less certain I’ll try the game.
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KrastyMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Yeah, I was wondering what the idea was behind level-restricting it. Given that artisan-work gives XP, it's a valid method of levelling up. And lots of your artisan-work can be done on the freehold..... which you don't get until you're already levelled up.
Just seems odd to me. Maybe set it at Level 25 when we get our Secondary Archetype, or even Level 35. Just don't make it max level.
Yeah, maybe they change the max level to 100 and everything will be fine
I only find this old quote from Jeffrey and Sarah, but it's about the fact that people should enjoy the leveling journey and that "level 1 content won't be that different from Max level content"
by this I would like to indicate that Freehold content at level 50 indicates that it will be different from other content.
So, most of the server will be stuck on T3 and the Guilds will be t4/t5. I feel there is a big problem with this. There will be little economic leeway and guilds will not sell items to others if it dilutes guild power.
If we're going by the tiers in resource rarity and translate that to the 4 tiers of artisanship, a journeyman is only making uncommon or green items or materials.
T1: Novice, Common, white items
T2: Journeyman, Uncommon, green items
T3: Master, Rare, blue items
T4: Grandmaster, Epic, purple items
T5: Grandmaster+?, Legendary, orange items.
We don't even know that journeymen can craft lvl 50 items, even if they are only green. Max level could be lvl 30 stuff for all we know. It's in the bottom half of the tiers after all.
The tier of the crafting or processing station is what determines the item rarity it can handle. For all we know, the artisan levels could be about the max level of the stuff they can create. Novice 20, Journeyman 30, Master 40 and Grandmaster 50.
1. I really liked the presentation & commentary which then moved to a game play example. For these complicated systems, this type of format is great.
2. The concept of planning your bag size and configuration prior to gathering & venturing out, makes a ton of sense. Ideally, equipment/blueprint drops are unique and specialized. Too many MMO's drop items just to give player a sense of accomplishment. This leads to a lot of time being spent managing inventory/bags/items.
So, most of the server will be stuck on T3 and the Guilds will be t4/t5. I feel there is a big problem with this. There will be little economic leeway and guilds will not sell items to others if it dilutes guild power.
If we're going by the tiers in resource rarity and translate that to the 4 tiers of artisanship, a journeyman is only making uncommon or green items or materials.
T1: Novice, Common, white items
T2: Journeyman, Uncommon, green items
T3: Master, Rare, blue items
T4: Grandmaster, Epic, purple items
T5: Grandmaster+?, Legendary, orange items.
We don't even know that journeymen can craft lvl 50 items, even if they are only green. Max level could be lvl 30 stuff for all we know. It's in the bottom half of the tiers after all.
The tier of the crafting or processing station is what determines the item rarity it can handle. For all we know, the artisan levels could be about the max level of the stuff they can create. Novice 20, Journeyman 30, Master 40 and Grandmaster 50.
Either way it sucks mate. Who wants to run around in greens against purples and oranges or who wants to run against level 50 armour in level 30 armour lol.
It should be about skill and risk vs reward. Not arbitrary red lines put in place by the man behind the curtain.
T1: Novice, Common, white items
T2: Journeyman, Uncommon, green items
T3: Master, Rare, blue items
T4: Grandmaster, Epic, purple items
T5: Grandmaster+?, Legendary, orange items.
This is incorrect. T3 is Journeyman, T4 is Master, T5 is Grandmaster
T3 rare/blue is what you have at level 50 and what you use at end-game to get your T4 epic/purple BiS.
T5 is basically out of reach for 90% of the players unless you are on the core static of one of the best guilds on the server since those drops only come from legendary world bosses.
I like what you've done with the freehold, but I will like to add something to them to further increase the number of people that can get their hands on a freehold:
1. Only citizens of a node are allowed to get their hands on a permit/freehold for that node
2. You cannot have multiple freeholds/account (max 1)
3. You cannot have multiple permits/account (max 1)
- I know this (2+3) will remove the housing market and there will be people that will give $15 for another account, but it will diminish the people that want to hoard and will allow for more players to get a freehold
4. Force the player to use the permit, like a time limit.
5. If you lose your citizenship you lose your freehold/permit and you will need to make another one after (again quest, mats, gold whatever is needed).
6. Add a fair maintenance tax, if you cannot pay it, your freehold/permit goes back to the node and let somebody else get it.
7. If you don't maintain your freehold, it should go back to the node and allow somebody else to get it. Either materials or inactivity. This will make it so if players abandon the game, they won't keep that plot busy forever or until somebody manages to destroy the capital.
8. In case of ransacking after a siege, the freehold deteriorates
9. If you're part of a family that has a freehold you cannot have your own freehold. If you join a family that has a freehold, you should be notified and decide if you still want to join (you will lose your freehold)
As for the cosmetics stuff: A solution would be to allow players to "sell back" their freehold cosmetics (for in game store currency) when the game launches (a 1 time thing). And to mark the new cosmetics for specific buildings.
I do not agree to make the freeholds crafting stations public for a fee. What would the purpose be anymore if I can just go to the first station I can find pay 2 gold and be done with it. This will make last tier items expensive and rare. Personally, I like this kind of things, where you have to actually invest and work and not everybody is going to run around full gear/bis in 1 month of playing the game and be done with it forever and forcing the devs to do something to the gear stats ei. add items with different/better stats making your bis gear obsolete, to artificially increase the loop just as new world did with gs increase every now and then because everybody is running bis after days.
In my opinion it should be something that not everybody should achieve alone given the scope of what you can do/achieve with a freehold. This will incentivize the people to socialize more and jump together into families and work together at the same house.
Like many players, I have thoughts (and ideas) regarding the overall freehold system that was presented on the livestream. I do not share all of the general concerns, but that doesn't mean I have none of my own. Before that, however, I'd like to state the facts as I understand them. Fell free to correct me if I got anything wrong.
0. Facts and Numbers
Estimated number of freeholds: low thousands (1000-5000)
People who can access most of one freehold: up to 9
Unlock reqirement: Level 50 Quest + monetary bid
Maximum server capacity: 15 000 inital; 50 000 final
Freehold function: Player services + main/best processing facilities + housing
1. Profession availability
I want to get over this one quickly, I don't think there will be a big problem for folks who want to get into processing (save for one issue I'll touch upon later). Given the numbers, in the most optimistic case 45 000 people would be able to access a freehold (5000 freeholds; 9 family members). If we assume 3000 freeholds - a number that the majority assumes as most likely - that's still 27 000 access "slots", in my opinion a number relatively high to satisfy most peoples' desired processing careers even with a full 50 thousand server.
2. Obtaining a freehold
Now, here's where pretty much everyone has a problem. And while I don't agree on the entire picture, nevertheless I agree with the community that the system isn't problem-free. Most glaring things are the level 50 requirement and the bidding system.
The 50 levels to get a chance to buy a freehold not only feels arbitrary, but it also seems to target the less "compatible" type of player. I'd expect the unlock to be tailored to a more social and sedentary playstyle, but as the wiki mentions, that won't be the most optimal approach. And, surprise surprise, a crafter's playstyle is going to be social and sedentary, at least compared to a gatherer or adventurer one.
As for the bidding, many people already pointed out that it is... not a flawless solution, to say the least.
2.1. Suggestions for obtaining
What I think could be done instead of both of these roadblocks is an already suggested by Lithion merit system.
[...] 2.) Acquiring the freeholds is a hard one to solve, but maybe there can be a sort of merit system in place where the more of a certain type of quests or good deeds you do you get merits, and also people who craft/gather/process a lot and sell on the market can get merits as well. So overall being active and playing and interacting with other players in positive ways and with the economy will build your merits. With these merits you can bid on a house and the one who puts forth the highest merits will win. The difference between this and gold is that merits are account bound so no trading or RMT buying gold with real money to buy houses. People have to play the game themselves to earn merits and then use them all up to win a bid on a house, then pay the full gold price of that house to own it.
[...] 4.) The merit system working separately from the gold system will also help manage what type of activities they can be earned from. so instead of some bot farming gold all day to use on houses, you know that merits have to be earned doing legit activities and if you find bots farming them from a specific gameplay loop too effectively you can lower their drop rate from that specifically without effecting the economy much
[...]
6.) If the merit system wont work at all at least make it so players cant sell the house directly to other players. Make it so it goes on open market so the RMT sellers cant sell to someone who gives them real money.
To add to that something from myself, I think that most merits could be local to a node, to give those who invested time in a specific node be just a little more eligible for freehold ownership. Another thing interesting (suggested by other people and adopted a little for the merits) could be node-type-specific merits, think military node giving more merit for bravery, weapon and armor quality etc. and a mercantile one valuing profit and quantity.
3. Utilizing the rest of the parcel
Following the vein of suggesting, there is a potential lying in the unused parts of the freehold parcel. Specifically, I'm refering to rolling fields and pastures surrouning a freehold that could appear after constructing a matching building. Perhaps even the current buildings could be replaced by things like silos/granaries and barns, moving the crops and animals out into the open.
Overall, I don't think the system is as bad as some people make it out to be, but it certainly is far from perfect.
T1: Novice, Common, white items
T2: Journeyman, Uncommon, green items
T3: Master, Rare, blue items
T4: Grandmaster, Epic, purple items
T5: Grandmaster+?, Legendary, orange items.
This is incorrect. T3 is Journeyman, T4 is Master, T5 is Grandmaster
T3 rare/blue is what you have at level 50 and what you use at end-game to get your T4 epic/purple BiS.
T5 is basically out of reach for 90% of the players unless you are on the core static of one of the best guilds on the server since those drops only come from legendary world bosses.
If you know something Lex and crew on the wiki doesn't, please let them know of this new information. The are only 4 tiers listed on wiki: Novice, Journeyman, Master and Grandmaster, and the max item levels they can craft are not mentioned.
I like what you've done with the freehold, but I will like to add something to them to further increase the number of people that can get their hands on a freehold:
1. Only citizens of a node are allowed to get their hands on a permit/freehold for that node
2. You cannot have multiple freeholds/account (max 1)
3. You cannot have multiple permits/account (max 1)
- I know this (2+3) will remove the housing market and there will be people that will give $15 for another account, but it will diminish the people that want to hoard and will allow for more players to get a freehold
4. Force the player to use the permit, like a time limit.
5. If you lose your citizenship you lose your freehold/permit and you will need to make another one after (again quest, mats, gold whatever is needed).
6. Add a fair maintenance tax, if you cannot pay it, your freehold/permit goes back to the node and let somebody else get it.
7. If you don't maintain your freehold, it should go back to the node and allow somebody else to get it. Either materials or inactivity. This will make it so if players abandon the game, they won't keep that plot busy forever or until somebody manages to destroy the capital.
8. In case of ransacking after a siege, the freehold deteriorates
9. If you're part of a family that has a freehold you cannot have your own freehold. If you join a family that has a freehold, you should be notified and decide if you still want to join (you will lose your freehold)
As for the cosmetics stuff: A solution would be to allow players to "sell back" their freehold cosmetics (for in game store currency) when the game launches (a 1 time thing). And to mark the new cosmetics for specific buildings.
I do not agree to make the freeholds crafting stations public for a fee. What would the purpose be anymore if I can just go to the first station I can find pay 2 gold and be done with it. This will make last tier items expensive and rare. Personally, I like this kind of things, where you have to actually invest and work and not everybody is going to run around full gear/bis in 1 month of playing the game and be done with it forever and forcing the devs to do something to the gear stats ei. add items with different/better stats making your bis gear obsolete, to artificially increase the loop just as new world did with gs increase every now and then because everybody is running bis after days.
In my opinion it should be something that not everybody should achieve alone given the scope of what you can do/achieve with a freehold. This will incentivize the people to socialize more and jump together into families and work together at the same house.
These steps will mean there will be even more money to bid with so solo players and casuals won't get anything at all. Guilds will still buy up the freeholds and I'd rather not talk about the great RMT lol. You can't fix a broken system with more restrictions, you need other methods to acquire the desired results. People want Freeholds to Farm and Breed Mounts. There must be a better alternatives for these people whilst keeping the Freeholds intact to one owner per freehold per account.
T1: Novice, Common, white items
T2: Journeyman, Uncommon, green items
T3: Master, Rare, blue items
T4: Grandmaster, Epic, purple items
T5: Grandmaster+?, Legendary, orange items.
This is incorrect. T3 is Journeyman, T4 is Master, T5 is Grandmaster
T3 rare/blue is what you have at level 50 and what you use at end-game to get your T4 epic/purple BiS.
T5 is basically out of reach for 90% of the players unless you are on the core static of one of the best guilds on the server since those drops only come from legendary world bosses.
If you know something Lex and crew on the wiki doesn't, please let them know of this new information. The are only 4 tiers listed on wiki: Novice, Journeyman, Master and Grandmaster, and the max item levels they can craft are not mentioned.
Also, resources come from raids too not just legendary world bosses. There's nothing stopping a pug killing these bosses either if the raid leader is experienced lol.
I am actually kind of sad really. I love a lot of the things you are doing with the freeholds, Intrepid.
The aesthetics were on point, the specific plans for the different stations and that whole system seemed good and I liked the powerpoint presentation in the beginning. I would have loved if that was the main take-away from all this, and we could have focused our attention on the powerpoint slides.
But man, the decision to increase the scarcity, the gatekeeping of vital content behind it, the reselling of freeholds causing even further price gouging and inflationary prices, and just the complete disconnect between the players able to acquire the freeholds and the players that the game needs to own the freeholds, was a real gut-punch I did not see coming.
I really and truly believe you killed a very powerful dream for a ton of potential players with those decisions, because you have literally sold them that dream through the monthly cosmetics for years. Players I want to be in the game. Players I think the game absolutely needs to be really successful and good. Being a part of a family, where only 1 person really owns the freehold and the others just have access, is not anywhere close to being able to own a little place of your own.
my thoughts on the livestream, as far as the graphics, art and UI are concerned i think they are looking amazing and you are doing an incredible job
but as the stream was about freeholds ill state that intrepid are losing touch with the community, i think 7 years into development these systems should have been flushed out and be getting ready for their first or second round of polish ready for alpha 2, i think that at this stage of development making such vast changes to the game that goes against everything that has been stated of how freeholds work is absolutely ridiculous,
i think that selling skins for real money for the past 5 years whilst providing absolutley 0 information about how it will work whilst i think i have not seen a month go by without 3-4 people asking in the '' questions you would like to see in the live stream'' about freeholds is borderline corruption and an extremely bad look, the only information we have really seen states that freeholds will be difficult to achieve but possible, not 5% of players will be able to get them but you will most likely need to quit your job, end your marriage and make your kids move out of home to even compete with the people that can aquire these, and the cherry on top making them available to be auctioned off is just ridiculous,
the inventory system, - please don't go with a Tetris stacking system, there is absolutely 0 benefit for this and i cant remember any time during playing an mmo that i have thought to my self, i wish i had to stack my inventory whilst farming gatherable, its just a pain in the ass
at the end of the day, i really think these systems should be finished by now, i dont think we should still be NEEDING feedback on this type of stuff, and if so i have no idea of what is going on behind the scenes, feedback is good obviously but there comes a time in development when you need to find a route you want to take with the game and go with it, i was super disappointed with the path we are taking on freeholds and i am nervous for the upcoming live stream about nodes, please listen to the community here and act accordingly
I've read this thread and not seen a comment about how the Freehold system as proposed fits (or doesn't) into the NARRATIVE of this game so here goes my 2 cents
If the story is one of repopulating/recolonizing Verra, what's my incentive to participate if I can't get the most precious reward for doing so - a piece of land to call my own? (No, not an apartment in the slum part of a city)
It seems counterintuitive to me that a supposed huge world as you have described it doesn't have room for those who explore and civilize it. It really doesn't match the commonest objective of exploration - to find land to settle on ((and profit from it's resources)
FWIW - I thought the freehold shown looked to be on a huge piece of land. You could easily reduce it and be very comfortable.
So - is the freehold design meant to satisfy a personal gaming 'philosophy' at the expense of the narrative? I would hope it to be the latter. I can already feel my immersion breaking as this game turns into property wars. I get that IRL. I play these games to escape from that stuff.
The girl watched the last of the creatures die and murmured a soft 'Thank you' to her rescuer.
The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.
'We have to move. It's not safe here.'
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nivhawkMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2023
"Is there anything in particular you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?"
I loved almost everything about the freeholds in the demo, really well done team. I've been following this project since Kickstarter and freeholds were one of the earliest ideas that really excited me! I think a lot of the synergies and systems showed and explained between gathering/crafting are really fleshing together nicely as well!
However, I'll echo what many others have said and that I have concerns about the scarcity and requirements to access freeholds. I had always imagined myself having a freehold and being able to farm my little plot of land with my beautiful freehold skin(s) but now I'm not so sure if that is a reality? I'd love to see this concept iterated on a bit and improved. Bidding seems easily abuseable.
Also, I don't love the idea of the 'tetris' inventory system. I don't personally want to be spending that much time managing my inventory in a game with so much other exciting content. I think weight based inventory systems work well in MMOs.
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nivhawkMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I've read this thread and not seen a comment about how the Freehold system as proposed fits (or doesn't) into the NARRATIVE of this game so here goes my 2 cents
If the story is one of repopulating/recolonizing Verra, what's my incentive to participate if I can't get the most precious reward for doing so - a piece of land to call my own? (No, not an apartment in the slum part of a city)
It seems counterintuitive to me that a supposed huge world as you have described it doesn't have room for those who explore and civilize it. It really doesn't match the commonest objective of exploration - to find land to settle on ((and profit from it's resources)
FWIW - I thought the freehold shown looked to be on a huge piece of land. You could easily reduce it and be very comfortable.
So - is the freehold design meant to satisfy a personal gaming 'philosophy' at the expense of the narrative? I would hope it to be the latter. I can already feel my immersion breaking as this game turns into property wars. I get that IRL. I play these games to escape from that stuff.
Good point. Housing scarcity is all too real in this day and age. It'd be nice to not have to face a renter's society in Verra when we log in to escape it.
If the story is one of repopulating/recolonizing Verra, what's my incentive to participate if I can't get the most precious reward for doing so - a piece of land to call my own? (No, not an apartment in the slum part of a city)
It seems counterintuitive to me that a supposed huge world as you have described it doesn't have room for those who explore and civilize it. It really doesn't match the commonest objective of exploration - to find land to settle on ((and profit from it's resources)
FWIW - I thought the freehold shown looked to be on a huge piece of land. You could easily reduce it and be very comfortable.
So - is the freehold design meant to satisfy a personal gaming 'philosophy' at the expense of the narrative? I would hope it to be the latter. I can already feel my immersion breaking as this game turns into property wars. I get that IRL. I play these games to escape from that stuff.
Excellent. I knew that it all felt contrived. I hadn't seen it from this point of view, and I'm glad that you brought it up.
"Hey, let's all jump into this portal so that the majority of us can help build an elite group of slave owners."
Comments
I noticed it on reddit too mate. We are under siege lol.
I really don't like the Tetris-style inventory. It's just too gimmicky. Having to play 'The Inventory Game' every time you pick something up just gets tedious, and seems so unnecessary.
How do you feel about the systems shown thus far for planting crops on your Freehold? Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
A little curious as to the PvP element of Freeholds. Given that the only safe place on the freehold is the house-building itself, does that mean that you can go to harvest your crops, be killed, and have them taken from you?
How do you feel about raising livestock and collecting resources from them? Does anything in particular concern or excite you regarding this?
I expected this to be part of the game. I don't think the pig-killing animation was at all excessive. Didn't show much, but presented what was happening. I think it was done nicely.
What kind of customization do you want with your Freehold, or buildings on your Freehold?
Placement, permissions (including access permissions - if I don't want someone on my freehold, I want to keep them out)
Is there anything in particular you’re excited about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
Just generally excited.
Is there anything in particular you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?
The size seems rather large. I mean, I haven't seen it in relation to a Village yet, but there seemed to be a lot of empty open space. Would prefer it if they were a little smaller, and then you could maybe fit in even more of them.
Unsure about the plot-auction thing. Would likely just prefer a first-come first-served with a set price.
And yes, I liked the presentation of the information in the livestream. Splitting up the info into a presentation and a demonstration worked well.
I thought I was the only one noticing this
Phone app is already planned.
Using weight to control how much someone can carry is the way to go. If its not broke, dont fix it. No need to re-invent the wheel on every system there is from the rest of what the genre does.
What I mean is, take inspiration from what others have done very well, or just downright copy it (GW2 Inventory management *cough*)
I want to be able to organize the bags the way I want. I want to put extra potions over here, junk over there, food right here, and so on. I dont want to have to try to tetris things around to fit everytime I get something new, and then be searching for something when I forgot where I put it.
Freeholds. The processing change is nice actually, however. There needs to be more thought into acquisition.
As it is right now, either RMT, or only leaders of big guilds seem to be able to get them due to scarcity. With how Freeholds are linked to the economy with new processing change, this is really bad and I feel like you guys just brainstormed what would be optimal for encouraging player interaction, without following that method to the natural conclusion once players got ahold of the system to use.
There needs to be a way for smaller guilds and hard working solos to access processing without needing to rely on RMT. You said one of your promises about the game is that there is no pay to win, so let me see you keep that promise please, I have some massive concerns here.
And, I have some smaller concern about small guilds or hardworking solos being able to access non-instanced at all if they are too scarce. Will need to see it working to get a better idea, but do keep in mind the majority of your playerbase is not leaders of big guilds or officers high up in those big guilds. Don't want to start having people quit when they have no hope of ever doing something that is normally highly sought out in games (housing). And please dont sell me the line "Instanced Apartments no one else will be able to see in the world" is housing.
Or this is an issue serious enough that people want to voice their concerns for the first time.
Each to their own and may the changes be bountiful.
How do you tell a new person who has started following the game, from an alt of someone that already follows the game?
All cows have horns! It's just that humans dehorn them while young in a sometimes pretty brutal process.
"Is there anything in particular you’re concerned about regarding what was shown with the Freehold Preview?":
Obtaining freehold only after level 50. For me it is not a good because it will be stressful for people who want to get freehold immediately.
Stressful in the sense that they will literally have to powerlevel... this is also connected to "there are only going to be a few thousand freeholds" this will only add more reasons for quick leveling. I think that going in this direction is a bad decision and hopefully it will be proven during testing in A2.
anyway, I'm not for everyone to have everything... and personally, I'm among the players who level quickly, and crafting is not one of my favorite activities in MMORPG games
Yeah, I was wondering what the idea was behind level-restricting it. Given that artisan-work gives XP, it's a valid method of levelling up. And lots of your artisan-work can be done on the freehold..... which you don't get until you're already levelled up.
Just seems odd to me. Maybe set it at Level 25 when we get our Secondary Archetype, or even Level 35. Just don't make it max level.
According to my Gmail records I made my account in April 2021. This is the first time I’ve felt the urge to comment, because this is the first time there has been an update that makes me much less certain I’ll try the game.
Yeah, maybe they change the max level to 100
I only find this old quote from Jeffrey and Sarah, but it's about the fact that people should enjoy the leveling journey and that "level 1 content won't be that different from Max level content"
by this I would like to indicate that Freehold content at level 50 indicates that it will be different from other content.
If we're going by the tiers in resource rarity and translate that to the 4 tiers of artisanship, a journeyman is only making uncommon or green items or materials.
T1: Novice, Common, white items
T2: Journeyman, Uncommon, green items
T3: Master, Rare, blue items
T4: Grandmaster, Epic, purple items
T5: Grandmaster+?, Legendary, orange items.
We don't even know that journeymen can craft lvl 50 items, even if they are only green. Max level could be lvl 30 stuff for all we know. It's in the bottom half of the tiers after all.
The tier of the crafting or processing station is what determines the item rarity it can handle. For all we know, the artisan levels could be about the max level of the stuff they can create. Novice 20, Journeyman 30, Master 40 and Grandmaster 50.
2. The concept of planning your bag size and configuration prior to gathering & venturing out, makes a ton of sense. Ideally, equipment/blueprint drops are unique and specialized. Too many MMO's drop items just to give player a sense of accomplishment. This leads to a lot of time being spent managing inventory/bags/items.
Overall, very excited
Either way it sucks mate. Who wants to run around in greens against purples and oranges or who wants to run against level 50 armour in level 30 armour lol.
It should be about skill and risk vs reward. Not arbitrary red lines put in place by the man behind the curtain.
This is incorrect. T3 is Journeyman, T4 is Master, T5 is Grandmaster
T3 rare/blue is what you have at level 50 and what you use at end-game to get your T4 epic/purple BiS.
T5 is basically out of reach for 90% of the players unless you are on the core static of one of the best guilds on the server since those drops only come from legendary world bosses.
1. Only citizens of a node are allowed to get their hands on a permit/freehold for that node
2. You cannot have multiple freeholds/account (max 1)
3. You cannot have multiple permits/account (max 1)
- I know this (2+3) will remove the housing market and there will be people that will give $15 for another account, but it will diminish the people that want to hoard and will allow for more players to get a freehold
4. Force the player to use the permit, like a time limit.
5. If you lose your citizenship you lose your freehold/permit and you will need to make another one after (again quest, mats, gold whatever is needed).
6. Add a fair maintenance tax, if you cannot pay it, your freehold/permit goes back to the node and let somebody else get it.
7. If you don't maintain your freehold, it should go back to the node and allow somebody else to get it. Either materials or inactivity. This will make it so if players abandon the game, they won't keep that plot busy forever or until somebody manages to destroy the capital.
8. In case of ransacking after a siege, the freehold deteriorates
9. If you're part of a family that has a freehold you cannot have your own freehold. If you join a family that has a freehold, you should be notified and decide if you still want to join (you will lose your freehold)
As for the cosmetics stuff: A solution would be to allow players to "sell back" their freehold cosmetics (for in game store currency) when the game launches (a 1 time thing). And to mark the new cosmetics for specific buildings.
I do not agree to make the freeholds crafting stations public for a fee. What would the purpose be anymore if I can just go to the first station I can find pay 2 gold and be done with it. This will make last tier items expensive and rare. Personally, I like this kind of things, where you have to actually invest and work and not everybody is going to run around full gear/bis in 1 month of playing the game and be done with it forever and forcing the devs to do something to the gear stats ei. add items with different/better stats making your bis gear obsolete, to artificially increase the loop just as new world did with gs increase every now and then because everybody is running bis after days.
In my opinion it should be something that not everybody should achieve alone given the scope of what you can do/achieve with a freehold. This will incentivize the people to socialize more and jump together into families and work together at the same house.
This will be a longer one.
Like many players, I have thoughts (and ideas) regarding the overall freehold system that was presented on the livestream. I do not share all of the general concerns, but that doesn't mean I have none of my own. Before that, however, I'd like to state the facts as I understand them. Fell free to correct me if I got anything wrong.
0. Facts and Numbers
1. Profession availability
I want to get over this one quickly, I don't think there will be a big problem for folks who want to get into processing (save for one issue I'll touch upon later). Given the numbers, in the most optimistic case 45 000 people would be able to access a freehold (5000 freeholds; 9 family members). If we assume 3000 freeholds - a number that the majority assumes as most likely - that's still 27 000 access "slots", in my opinion a number relatively high to satisfy most peoples' desired processing careers even with a full 50 thousand server.
2. Obtaining a freehold
Now, here's where pretty much everyone has a problem. And while I don't agree on the entire picture, nevertheless I agree with the community that the system isn't problem-free. Most glaring things are the level 50 requirement and the bidding system.
The 50 levels to get a chance to buy a freehold not only feels arbitrary, but it also seems to target the less "compatible" type of player. I'd expect the unlock to be tailored to a more social and sedentary playstyle, but as the wiki mentions, that won't be the most optimal approach. And, surprise surprise, a crafter's playstyle is going to be social and sedentary, at least compared to a gatherer or adventurer one.
As for the bidding, many people already pointed out that it is... not a flawless solution, to say the least.
2.1. Suggestions for obtaining
What I think could be done instead of both of these roadblocks is an already suggested by Lithion merit system.
To add to that something from myself, I think that most merits could be local to a node, to give those who invested time in a specific node be just a little more eligible for freehold ownership. Another thing interesting (suggested by other people and adopted a little for the merits) could be node-type-specific merits, think military node giving more merit for bravery, weapon and armor quality etc. and a mercantile one valuing profit and quantity.
3. Utilizing the rest of the parcel
Following the vein of suggesting, there is a potential lying in the unused parts of the freehold parcel. Specifically, I'm refering to rolling fields and pastures surrouning a freehold that could appear after constructing a matching building. Perhaps even the current buildings could be replaced by things like silos/granaries and barns, moving the crops and animals out into the open.
Overall, I don't think the system is as bad as some people make it out to be, but it certainly is far from perfect.
If you know something Lex and crew on the wiki doesn't, please let them know of this new information. The are only 4 tiers listed on wiki: Novice, Journeyman, Master and Grandmaster, and the max item levels they can craft are not mentioned.
These steps will mean there will be even more money to bid with so solo players and casuals won't get anything at all. Guilds will still buy up the freeholds and I'd rather not talk about the great RMT lol. You can't fix a broken system with more restrictions, you need other methods to acquire the desired results. People want Freeholds to Farm and Breed Mounts. There must be a better alternatives for these people whilst keeping the Freeholds intact to one owner per freehold per account.
Also, resources come from raids too not just legendary world bosses. There's nothing stopping a pug killing these bosses either if the raid leader is experienced lol.
The aesthetics were on point, the specific plans for the different stations and that whole system seemed good and I liked the powerpoint presentation in the beginning. I would have loved if that was the main take-away from all this, and we could have focused our attention on the powerpoint slides.
But man, the decision to increase the scarcity, the gatekeeping of vital content behind it, the reselling of freeholds causing even further price gouging and inflationary prices, and just the complete disconnect between the players able to acquire the freeholds and the players that the game needs to own the freeholds, was a real gut-punch I did not see coming.
I really and truly believe you killed a very powerful dream for a ton of potential players with those decisions, because you have literally sold them that dream through the monthly cosmetics for years. Players I want to be in the game. Players I think the game absolutely needs to be really successful and good. Being a part of a family, where only 1 person really owns the freehold and the others just have access, is not anywhere close to being able to own a little place of your own.
but as the stream was about freeholds ill state that intrepid are losing touch with the community, i think 7 years into development these systems should have been flushed out and be getting ready for their first or second round of polish ready for alpha 2, i think that at this stage of development making such vast changes to the game that goes against everything that has been stated of how freeholds work is absolutely ridiculous,
i think that selling skins for real money for the past 5 years whilst providing absolutley 0 information about how it will work whilst i think i have not seen a month go by without 3-4 people asking in the '' questions you would like to see in the live stream'' about freeholds is borderline corruption and an extremely bad look, the only information we have really seen states that freeholds will be difficult to achieve but possible, not 5% of players will be able to get them but you will most likely need to quit your job, end your marriage and make your kids move out of home to even compete with the people that can aquire these, and the cherry on top making them available to be auctioned off is just ridiculous,
the inventory system, - please don't go with a Tetris stacking system, there is absolutely 0 benefit for this and i cant remember any time during playing an mmo that i have thought to my self, i wish i had to stack my inventory whilst farming gatherable, its just a pain in the ass
at the end of the day, i really think these systems should be finished by now, i dont think we should still be NEEDING feedback on this type of stuff, and if so i have no idea of what is going on behind the scenes, feedback is good obviously but there comes a time in development when you need to find a route you want to take with the game and go with it, i was super disappointed with the path we are taking on freeholds and i am nervous for the upcoming live stream about nodes, please listen to the community here and act accordingly
If the story is one of repopulating/recolonizing Verra, what's my incentive to participate if I can't get the most precious reward for doing so - a piece of land to call my own? (No, not an apartment in the slum part of a city)
It seems counterintuitive to me that a supposed huge world as you have described it doesn't have room for those who explore and civilize it. It really doesn't match the commonest objective of exploration - to find land to settle on ((and profit from it's resources)
FWIW - I thought the freehold shown looked to be on a huge piece of land. You could easily reduce it and be very comfortable.
So - is the freehold design meant to satisfy a personal gaming 'philosophy' at the expense of the narrative? I would hope it to be the latter. I can already feel my immersion breaking as this game turns into property wars. I get that IRL. I play these games to escape from that stuff.
The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.
'We have to move. It's not safe here.'
I loved almost everything about the freeholds in the demo, really well done team. I've been following this project since Kickstarter and freeholds were one of the earliest ideas that really excited me! I think a lot of the synergies and systems showed and explained between gathering/crafting are really fleshing together nicely as well!
However, I'll echo what many others have said and that I have concerns about the scarcity and requirements to access freeholds. I had always imagined myself having a freehold and being able to farm my little plot of land with my beautiful freehold skin(s) but now I'm not so sure if that is a reality? I'd love to see this concept iterated on a bit and improved. Bidding seems easily abuseable.
Also, I don't love the idea of the 'tetris' inventory system. I don't personally want to be spending that much time managing my inventory in a game with so much other exciting content. I think weight based inventory systems work well in MMOs.
Good point. Housing scarcity is all too real in this day and age. It'd be nice to not have to face a renter's society in Verra when we log in to escape it.
Excellent. I knew that it all felt contrived. I hadn't seen it from this point of view, and I'm glad that you brought it up.
"Hey, let's all jump into this portal so that the majority of us can help build an elite group of slave owners."