Reality: Freeholds for Guilds only

With pooled resources being the realistically only path to success the Freehold system itself is basically a guild-centric feature. (Which is fine)

But while it requires a group effort it falls wholly under one person's control.

That type of system is ripe for unscrupulous attention. I've played EVE.

If the reality is that the freehold requires a guild (or streamer fanboys) why not make it a Guild feature in earnest?

The Guild (perhaps with pop reqs) itself bids and the Guild leader assigns permissions.

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Songcaller

Because people don't want to be serfs...

Depraved

guilds cant bid for several fh at the same time or they risk losing the fh against a competing guild. while guild a is is trying to bid vs guild b for fh01, solo players will be bidding fh02, fh03, fh04, fh05, fh06, etc

also, consider that you need to be level 50 for a fh, and not everybody in the guild will hit 50 as fast as possible, that limits the amount of fh a guild can have for the first few months until their members hit 50, giving solo players and families mre opportunities to grab a fh vs a guild.

Mag7spy

pyreal wrote: »

With pooled resources being the realistically only path to success the Freehold system itself is basically a guild-centric feature. (Which is fine)

But while it requires a group effort it falls wholly under one person's control.

That type of system is ripe for unscrupulous attention. I've played EVE.

If the reality is that the freehold requires a guild (or streamer fanboys) why not make it a Guild feature in earnest?

The Guild (perhaps with pop reqs) itself bids and the Guild leader assigns permissions.

Join my guild and pool me money so i can get a freehold. I will let you use it.

Gizban

Depraved wrote: »

guilds cant bid for several fh at the same time or they risk losing the fh against a competing guild. while guild a is is trying to bid vs guild b for fh01, solo players will be bidding fh02, fh03, fh04, fh05, fh06, etc

also, consider that you need to be level 50 for a fh, and not everybody in the guild will hit 50 as fast as possible, that limits the amount of fh a guild can have for the first few months until their members hit 50, giving solo players and families mre opportunities to grab a fh vs a guild.

And once established they raze your node and outbid you.
It's a cycle that, once established, requires pooled resources.

Depraved

pyreal wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

guilds cant bid for several fh at the same time or they risk losing the fh against a competing guild. while guild a is is trying to bid vs guild b for fh01, solo players will be bidding fh02, fh03, fh04, fh05, fh06, etc

also, consider that you need to be level 50 for a fh, and not everybody in the guild will hit 50 as fast as possible, that limits the amount of fh a guild can have for the first few months until their members hit 50, giving solo players and families mre opportunities to grab a fh vs a guild.

And once established they raze your node and outbid you.
It's a cycle that, once established, requires pooled resources.

facepalm

i really want to explain to you how declaring works, how obtaining the declaration item is supposed to be difficult, how theres a cooldown, and how your guild will be fragmented within different nodes and not all members of your mega guild will be able to help raze your node. in fact, chances are you might even be screwing up your own guild members by attacking an opposing guild member node to take their fh, but i dont wanna type all that. go spend some time on the wiki or ask someone else to explain it to you.

Gizban

Mag7spy wrote: »

lp

pyreal wrote: »

With pooled resources being the realistically only path to success the Freehold system itself is basically a guild-centric feature. (Which is fine)

But while it requires a group effort it falls wholly under one person's control.

That type of system is ripe for unscrupulous attention. I've played EVE.

If the reality is that the freehold requires a guild (or streamer fanboys) why not make it a Guild feature in earnest?

The Guild (perhaps with pop reqs) itself bids and the Guild leader assigns permissions.

Join my guild and pool me money so i can get a freehold. I will let you use it.

I absolutely intend to join a guild.

Not really interested in Freeholds.

I just want a thriving and long lasting game, and that requires player emotional investment, and an excellent path for that is ownership.

A lot of folks were excited for Freeholds, as it was an original game element, and that has now been placed in end-game, top tier brackets.

It was never my goal but it sucks seeing excited players gut punched.

wakkytabbaky

pyreal wrote: »

And once established they raze your node and outbid you.
It's a cycle that, once established, requires pooled resources.

wont see a siege till probably end of month 2 / somewhere month 3 if the wiki info is still correct as it states that nodes cant be sieged for 21 days after an upgrade in node level. which means FH holders will have 1-1.5 months of Freedom.

yea they will raze it later on but first sieges will prob end up being lvl 4-5 depending and alot harder to raze early on. all FH talk is speculation at this point till we see it ingame and how hard it is to get a FH anyway, the quest that is required could be super hard and near impossible at fresh lvl 50 for all we know

Kilion

It's not reality, in fact it couldn't be further from the truth as there is not even a game yet.

And all that talk about "freeholds will only be picked up by XYZ" convenietly ignores one thing: Someone has to be there to buy it the second it becomes available.

When Node advances to tier 3 (for which there for now doesn't seem to be an indicator that gives a headsup, right?) it would take organization XYZ first of all to learn about that; then send a level 50 proxy char equipped with enough gold who is nearby and doesn't get held up and/or plundered in PvP to immediately pick up the quest for the freehold to outbid everyone else. And assuming that this character actually manages to pick up the freehold, now that organization has to stretch its resources thinner than before to actually make all this setup worth the effort.

Sure, there are a few people out there whose sole commitment will be to Ashes, but will it be to the degree that they will be able to dominate ALL the servers and THE WHOLE freehold market at ALL times, BY ANY MEANS even if it includes RMT? If thats what you think I'd suggest giving up on MMORPGs as a genre since there seems no way in this mindset for an MMO to ever be fun again as these groups overtake these games with no countermeasure possible.

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

Sure, there are a few people out there whose sole commitment will be to Ashes, but will it be to the degree that they will be able to dominate ALL the servers and THE WHOLE freehold market at ALL times, BY ANY MEANS even if it includes RMT?

If we exclude RMT, I could see a commited group of about 100 players being able to corner the market for freeholds on any one server.

This is the kind of cornering where even top end guilds don't have any freeholds.

The biggest issue is the accounts needed. Actually doing what needs to be done isn't hard.

Gizban

Kilion wrote: »

It's not reality, in fact it couldn't be further from the truth as there is not even a game yet.

And all that talk about "freeholds will only be picked up by XYZ" convenietly ignores one thing: Someone has to be there to buy it the second it becomes available.

When Node advances to tier 3 (for which there for now doesn't seem to be an indicator that gives a headsup, right?) it would take organization XYZ first of all to learn about that; then send a level 50 proxy char equipped with enough gold who is nearby and doesn't get held up and/or plundered in PvP to immediately pick up the quest for the freehold to outbid everyone else. And assuming that this character actually manages to pick up the freehold, now that organization has to stretch its resources thinner than before to actually make all this setup worth the effort.

Sure, there are a few people out there whose sole commitment will be to Ashes, but will it be to the degree that they will be able to dominate ALL the servers and THE WHOLE freehold market at ALL times, BY ANY MEANS even if it includes RMT? If thats what you think I'd suggest giving up on MMORPGs as a genre since there seems no way in this mindset for an MMO to ever be fun again as these groups overtake these games with no countermeasure possible.

What are you smoking?
I never said anything about a server wide shadowy organization scheming to own every Freehold.

I'll restate:

. Wherever a Freehold is bid on, the the largest bid will be a pooled one, and they will win. 1x2 beats 1x1.
. The pooled resources will come from a Guild.
. Guilds control all Freeholds.

Seems a logical progression to me...

This will be the general rule.

A few individuals will get a one early on, but once Guilds become established there won't be any more Freeholds in non-Guild hands.
Their bidding power can't be matched by individuals or small fry Guilds.

Solvryn

Neurath wrote: »

Because people don't want to be serfs...

They're already serfs if they're apart of the 1k+ zerglord guilds.

Songcaller

Solvryn wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Because people don't want to be serfs...

They're already serfs if they're apart of the 1k+ zerglord guilds.

Can't argue with such logic lol.

PherPhur

pyreal wrote: »

Their bidding power can't be matched by individuals or small fry Guilds.

Depends how much the individual or small fry guilds RMT

LegendaryIII

Virtually every Freehold won't just be owned by a Guild, it'll be "officers" within these guilds.

If that doesn't describe you...

Kilion

pyreal wrote: »

I'll restate:

. Wherever a Freehold is bid on, the the largest bid will be a pooled one, and they will win. 1x2 beats 1x1.
. The pooled resources will come from a Guild.
. Guilds control all Freeholds.

Seems a logical progression to me...

It is but only if these guilds would always be there when an auction is taking place or get time to do as you described. Sure, there is a chance for that but I don't see that to be very likely, unless the bidding periods are stretched so long that anyone gets the chance to strategize and organize like you laid out. And I doubt that will be the case.

pyreal wrote: »

This will be the general rule.

A few individuals will get a one early on, but once Guilds become established there won't be any more Freeholds in non-Guild hands.

Provided that this is what the system will be optimized for: yes. But we don't know if that is the case, but for that we will have to wait and see what this "vetting quest" will look like that Steven mentioned. I suspect it will be not a static system, the bidding process for higher tier node parcels will take longer while the ones for a parcel in a Villages ZOI will be fairly short (leaning more towards "first come first serve")

pyreal wrote: »

Their bidding power can't be matched by individuals or small fry Guilds.

Only if that will be the sole mettric by which it will be decided who gets it, which I doubt to be the case as Steven said.

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

pyreal wrote: »

I'll restate:

. Wherever a Freehold is bid on, the the largest bid will be a pooled one, and they will win. 1x2 beats 1x1.
. The pooled resources will come from a Guild.
. Guilds control all Freeholds.

Seems a logical progression to me...

It is but only if these guilds would always be there when an auction is taking place or get time to do as you described.

A few points on this.

First, I think you are underestimating the organization of guilds.

My guild will know when any freehold on our server is up for sale.

Second, even if one particular guild isn't present for a sale, another guild will be. There will be actual dozens of somewhat large guilds (80+ players) on each server. Every single one of these guilds has the ability to take any freehold before someone in a guild of even 20 players.

Keep in mind, the bidding period is likely to be about a week.

Kilion

Noaani wrote: »

My guild will know when any freehold on our server is up for sale.

Good luck with that.

Noaani wrote: »

Keep in mind, the bidding period is likely to be about a week.

I'll wait for the Alpha to see if that really applies. I suspect it will be a shorter time period for lower tiered Nodes, but even that can not be more than a suspicion.

And the whole debate about the freeholds seems centered around the assumptions that (1) the "vetting quest" that Steven mentioned will be completely irrelevant with only the biggest bank account being relevant and (2) that owning freeholds will always be a huge advantage, for the guild and the ZOI in which it is located. I don't see much reason to believe that either of these ideas actually represent the truth. But that also is just an opinion and lacking of confirmed information of Intrepid as any other opinion is.

We will see.

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

My guild will know when any freehold on our server is up for sale.

Good luck with that.

That part is easy.

I'll wait for the Alpha to see if that really applies. I suspect it will be a shorter time period for lower tiered Nodes, but even that can not be more than a suspicion.

I don't see why they would have a different time period for a different size of node.

Keep in mind, the idea here is to provide players a non-land rush type system. They want players to have some time to pool resources and such.

At the very least, the auction time is going to be a couple of days - but that is unlikely.

3 - 5 days is quite possible.

A week is the easiest for players.

Either way, there will be plenty of time.

Kilion

Yes, it is possible but not set in stone - be no means. "There will be plenty of time" is ultimately a very malleable term. 24 hours is also "time enough" for a guild 2 Nodes over to pool resources, but might not be enough for a guild from across te continent to do the same. And it is exactly these types of vagues terms that led me to the conclusion to just wait and see for now as all these things seem equally possible to me.

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

Yes, it is possible but not set in stone - be no means. "There will be plenty of time" is ultimately a very malleable term. 24 hours is also "time enough" for a guild 2 Nodes over to pool resources, but might not be enough for a guild from across te continent to do the same. And it is exactly these types of vagues terms that led me to the conclusion to just wait and see for now as all these things seem equally possible to me.

24 hours is more than enough time for any number of guilds to get organized to bid.

Realistically, do you see any period of time where a solo player can try and get some coing off of friends to make a bid, but a guild can't also get organizaed at the same time? Now keep in mind, I am not talking about a specific guild - just any guild that happens to be in the area.

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