Reality: Freeholds for Guilds only

With pooled resources being the realistically only path to success the Freehold system itself is basically a guild-centric feature. (Which is fine)

But while it requires a group effort it falls wholly under one person's control.

That type of system is ripe for unscrupulous attention. I've played EVE.

If the reality is that the freehold requires a guild (or streamer fanboys) why not make it a Guild feature in earnest?

The Guild (perhaps with pop reqs) itself bids and the Guild leader assigns permissions.

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Kilion

I think that it will be possible for a solo player to save up and place a winning bid in a parcel "auction". It just will take them longer, since they decided to play solo in a group oriented game.

PherPhur

Kilion wrote: »

I think that it will be possible for a solo player to save up and place a winning bid in a parcel "auction". It just will take them longer, since they decided to play solo in a group oriented game.

In a perfect imaginary world where currency bidding based freehold acquisition isn't consumed by RMT, a solo player can surely save up enough money to get a parcel.

They won't get one on launch, probably not even close to launch, but after a year or so, after many sieges and acquisitions of freeholds by some other players, after the population has possibly died down a bit, after a lot of group players have got a taste of freeholds already and after this solo player has saved up a years worth of gold, they should be able to get one.

Should, I'd imagine.

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

I think that it will be possible for a solo player to save up and place a winning bid in a parcel "auction". It just will take them longer, since they decided to play solo in a group oriented game.

Yeah, you've said you think this, but you haven't said how or why you think it.

On a server where there are 50+ guilds of 80+ people, where they all want freeholds either to use or to sell later on, where there is realistically only about 30 - 50 nodes that will even have freeholds for the first six months, there is literally no chance at all that a solo player can get a freehold off of the initial auctions.

The only chance they have is to buy one off of a player that is selling one. Doing this will be significantly more expensive than buying one in the first auction - and so is still unlikely to be achieved by a solo player.

I think you are seriously underestimating how organized a good guild is.

Kilion

Noaani wrote: »

Yeah, you've said you think this, but you haven't said how or why you think it

I did say it: Because I think that access will be more limited than just "who ever has the highest bid" and because I don't think the incentives to own a freehold will be at all times as high as people now make it out to be.

You rejected that notion, which is fine but since we are both speculating, I don't see what else there is to say about that.

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Yeah, you've said you think this, but you haven't said how or why you think it

I did say it: Because I think that access will be more limited than just "who ever has the highest bid"

That is literally what an auction is. Who ever has the highest bid wins.

The only other qualifier is the quest. This favors guilds over solo players (depending on the specifics of the quest), due to a guilds ability to easily block solo players from any specific quest update.

And yes, guilds will do this. We did it in Archeage and that was a game that didn't have much in the way of exclusivity for land.

Veeshan

Im gonna come out and say this now so people are surprised next livestream (if it nodes) that Nodes will be run by guilds too the mayor will always be somone in a guild and they build the node in favor of there guild.

just a heads up so people wont cry constantly in the forums next months too

Veeshan

Kilion wrote: »

I think that it will be possible for a solo player to save up and place a winning bid in a parcel "auction". It just will take them longer, since they decided to play solo in a group oriented game.

major guilds will congerate close to the metro nodes nodes so any freehold away from the main population base wont be as hard to get and solo players will probaly be able to snag some the 2 small islands will probaly be prime realestate i feel since majority of players will probaly be on the 2 main continents

Noaani

Veeshan wrote: »

Im gonna come out and say this now so people are surprised next livestream (if it nodes) that Nodes will be run by guilds too the mayor will always be somone in a guild and they build the node in favor of there guild.

just a heads up so people wont cry constantly in the forums next months too

This is something people already know.

What would upset people as much as the freehold situation is if Intrepid came out and said "actually, mayors can take money out of the nodes funds to spend on personal things".

That would bring about as much of a change in the way people think about the game as the freehold system did.

superhero6785

A solo player won't be able to "out bid" a corporate conglomerate, and nor should they. The problem is that they think they "deserve" to be able to compete David vs Goliath style.

People seem to be forgetting that vassal nodes cannot exceed their parent node. These big guilds everyone is afraid of won't have any interest in running a Village (stage 3) where freeholds first become available. Solo players and tight knit guilds will have plenty of opportunity to sow their seeds in these smaller nodes, away from the hustle and bustle of big guild politics.

Solvryn

Neurath wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Because people don't want to be serfs...

They're already serfs if they're apart of the 1k+ zerglord guilds.

Can't argue with such logic lol.

I mean it's true, its no different than real life.

Join a corporation, get all of the wealth and labour one generates pushed to the top in promise of very little in return.

Suckers be suckers.

Depraved

Solvryn wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

Because people don't want to be serfs...

They're already serfs if they're apart of the 1k+ zerglord guilds.

Can't argue with such logic lol.

I mean it's true, its no different than real life.

Join a corporation, get all of the wealth and labour one generates pushed to the top in promise of very little in return.

Suckers be suckers.

join another guild then?

Kilion

Noaani wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Yeah, you've said you think this, but you haven't said how or why you think it

I did say it: Because I think that access will be more limited than just "who ever has the highest bid"

[...]The only other qualifier is the quest. [...]

Exactly. And as long as we do not know how this quest limits access to the auction the end result might be much different from what it would be without it.

BlackBrony

Sometimes when I read these posts it seems like no one ever played an mmo. When hasn't a large guild dominated lol?
"requires organization"?? Dude, people would set up complex networks to get World buffs in Wow. People would try to get a all buff for hours, then log off and don't play until raid.

I have no doubt that guilds will own anything in a couple of months. Eventually it will be maybe 2-5 guilds, and then there's no point in fighting back.
I bet it will either be:
- pay stupid prices to get processed materials
- join my guild

If you control the supply, which it will happen, you decide the price. So I would assume that large guilds who control the processing will pay almost nothing for base materials, process said materials, make huge profits.
Why? Because there's only 20% of population who can actually process those materials.

No? That won't happen? Look at real life. Are farmers paid well? No. Unless you consider the mega farmers, which no player can be in this game, without, you know, a freehold

Abarat

Noaani wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

Sure, there are a few people out there whose sole commitment will be to Ashes, but will it be to the degree that they will be able to dominate ALL the servers and THE WHOLE freehold market at ALL times, BY ANY MEANS even if it includes RMT?

If we exclude RMT, I could see a commited group of about 100 players being able to corner the market for freeholds on any one server.

This is the kind of cornering where even top end guilds don't have any freeholds.

The biggest issue is the accounts needed. Actually doing what needs to be done isn't hard.

based upon...? your imagination?

please give any details into how you adopted this position, which, in my opinion, would require knowledge of the specifics of some systems, which I believe have not been released yet.

Abarat

BlackBrony wrote: »

Sometimes when I read these posts it seems like no one ever played an mmo. When hasn't a large guild dominated lol?

When has a game ever been built by a very large guild leader that exploited games to their advantage?

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Yeah, you've said you think this, but you haven't said how or why you think it

I did say it: Because I think that access will be more limited than just "who ever has the highest bid"

[...]The only other qualifier is the quest. [...]

Exactly. And as long as we do not know how this quest limits access to the auction the end result might be much different from what it would be without it.

I mean, if there are limits due to this quest, those limits will be towards solo players. It iant going to limit people in guilds at all.

Noaani

Abarat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

Sure, there are a few people out there whose sole commitment will be to Ashes, but will it be to the degree that they will be able to dominate ALL the servers and THE WHOLE freehold market at ALL times, BY ANY MEANS even if it includes RMT?

If we exclude RMT, I could see a commited group of about 100 players being able to corner the market for freeholds on any one server.

This is the kind of cornering where even top end guilds don't have any freeholds.

The biggest issue is the accounts needed. Actually doing what needs to be done isn't hard.

based upon...? your imagination?

please give any details into how you adopted this position, which, in my opinion, would require knowledge of the specifics of some systems, which I believe have not been released yet.

Oh, I'm not going to give any details. Why would I?

You absolutely not need to believe me if that is what you want to do - I'm not on these forums to convince you of anything.

However, with what we know of the system (the auctions will go up with a regular cadence, the auction time is long enough for players to organize funds from multiple sources), there isnt a whole lot more that needs to be known for an actual organized and dedicated guild to corner the market.

Keep in mind what is required to corner a market, that doesnt mean buying all freeholds, it means having enough of the stock of freeholds up for sale to be able to dictate the price.

Kilion

Noaani wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Yeah, you've said you think this, but you haven't said how or why you think it

I did say it: Because I think that access will be more limited than just "who ever has the highest bid"

[...]The only other qualifier is the quest. [...]

Exactly. And as long as we do not know how this quest limits access to the auction the end result might be much different from what it would be without it.

I mean, if there are limits due to this quest, those limits will be towards solo players. It iant going to limit people in guilds at all.

It is fairly simple to limit guild access to freeholds, if the vetting quests also contains a portion where the overall ownership of freeholds in the guild, guild size, reputation of the average guild member with that particular node and other metrics are considered, the balance might actually become more favorable for solo players. And while Ashes is an MMO meant for team play, it is also aiming to have people be invested in the things they do.

So again: There is absolutely zero way for anyone outside of Intrepid to say what the system will look like in sum, it is all just wild speculation with no reliable proof that the mechanics are dysfunctional or working fine.

Noaani

Kilion wrote: »

It is fairly simple to limit guild access to freeholds, if the vetting quests also contains a portion where the overall ownership of freeholds in the guild, guild size, reputation of the average guild member with that particular node and other metrics are considered, the balance might actually become more favorable for solo players. And while Ashes is an MMO meant for team play, it is also aiming to have people be invested in the things they do.

Well, obviously they wouldn't do this.

However, if they did, guilds would just use out of guild characters to own freeholds if that is what would work best.

As for in guild reputation - assuming reputation is assigned by players, this is a great way to lock out anyone not in a big guild.

Kilion wrote: »

So again: There is absolutely zero way for anyone outside of Intrepid to say what the system will look like in sum, it is all just wild speculation with no reliable proof that the mechanics are dysfunctional or working fine.

Now, to be clear, I am not saying what it will loot like.

What I am saying is - no matter what it looks like, organized people will always be more organized than disorganized people.

Solvryn

Well the devs will figure out you can't build a game with Zerglord mentality, have to understand your demographic and Zerglords only a percentage of the population base.

By reading a lot of the forums, the consensus here is that there is a sense that Intrepid doesn't understand the diverse demographics of it's player-base and thats apart of the double edged sword of "build it and they will come", mentality.

Maybe it's an oversight, but it seems to me Intrepid might have forgot to consider the psychology of player-base. A fun passion project can do that, make you lose touch with the whole demographic.

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