Diamaht wrote: » If the gamplay is fun, and open world pvp is fun and does not devolve into a gank fest, like most do, then it may not be niche. WoW was king because it played better (by far) than any of its competitors. The pvp servers were a lot of fun at first, but the people learned to organize better and the faction system turned them one sided.
Dygz wrote: » KingDDD wrote: » Pve servers in wow always have been a significantly smaller population in wow then pvp servers. If you look at trends over time there's been a mass exodus from pve servers.https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_the_creation_of_US_realms Link above shows a history of servers added. I'm at work but at a quick glance 2005 saw a significantly larger number of pvp servers added compared to pve. Uh. No. PvE-Only have traditionally always had the highest populations for both WoW and EQ.
KingDDD wrote: » Pve servers in wow always have been a significantly smaller population in wow then pvp servers. If you look at trends over time there's been a mass exodus from pve servers.https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_the_creation_of_US_realms Link above shows a history of servers added. I'm at work but at a quick glance 2005 saw a significantly larger number of pvp servers added compared to pve.
Noaani wrote: » Dygz wrote: » KingDDD wrote: » Pve servers in wow always have been a significantly smaller population in wow then pvp servers. If you look at trends over time there's been a mass exodus from pve servers.https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_the_creation_of_US_realms Link above shows a history of servers added. I'm at work but at a quick glance 2005 saw a significantly larger number of pvp servers added compared to pve. Uh. No. PvE-Only have traditionally always had the highest populations for both WoW and EQ. Indeed. Fun fact, in "some games", PvP servers are set to hold a lower population as PvE servers. This isneapecially true in games with a large amount of instances PvE.
Fiddlez wrote: » WoW was certainly 'niche' but its been quite a few years and playing games on the internet was 'niche' too. I think even when reading the replies on this post that what people think is based on what was and not what is or could be. Which is part of the reason i posted it. "EveOnline, Lineage 2,Archeage" success is not a decent indicator of what people want now, it was about what people wanted years ago. Also, games that failed before with Open world PVP is not a fair indicator. The market has been saturated with the same type of MMO and people want change. AoC's biggest player hurdle in Open PVP might end up being its biggest asset or draw. I think the games and genres I mentioned in the first post should definitely lead people to the same conclusion I have. People want change. Gamers seem to want more meat in their experience. They seem willing to take huge risks for their rewards, they see the participation trophies for what they are, completely meaningless. I just don't think you can look at current gaming trends and not see the obvious shift.
Mag7spy wrote: » KingDDD wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » KingDDD wrote: » Ashes is as niche of a game as wow was in 2004. Provided it doesn't run horribly and the end game loop exists for a variety of play styles/play times, it'll see well over a million subs. The question is can they sustain development long enough to get to the point where the before mentioned criterias are hit; alpha 2 will only be a year, beta 1 6 months, and beta 2/open beta being 3 months or less. Where did you see a beta will last 6 months o.O. It's based on the cost of the beta pack and the revenue generated in that amount of time. Beta 1 lasting any longer than that and Intrepid will hemorrhage money real fast to the point where they'll be forced to launch. So there is no confirmed date or length of beta? That is mainly what I'm checking because i don't see a beta lasting for half a year let alone months.. Beta 2 would be marketing and most likely no more than a week. Beta 1 at most would be like a few weeks i could see, maybe a month if you are lucky but i don't see it last more than 2 weeks if all major testing in alpha was done successfully.
KingDDD wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » KingDDD wrote: » Ashes is as niche of a game as wow was in 2004. Provided it doesn't run horribly and the end game loop exists for a variety of play styles/play times, it'll see well over a million subs. The question is can they sustain development long enough to get to the point where the before mentioned criterias are hit; alpha 2 will only be a year, beta 1 6 months, and beta 2/open beta being 3 months or less. Where did you see a beta will last 6 months o.O. It's based on the cost of the beta pack and the revenue generated in that amount of time. Beta 1 lasting any longer than that and Intrepid will hemorrhage money real fast to the point where they'll be forced to launch.
Mag7spy wrote: » KingDDD wrote: » Ashes is as niche of a game as wow was in 2004. Provided it doesn't run horribly and the end game loop exists for a variety of play styles/play times, it'll see well over a million subs. The question is can they sustain development long enough to get to the point where the before mentioned criterias are hit; alpha 2 will only be a year, beta 1 6 months, and beta 2/open beta being 3 months or less. Where did you see a beta will last 6 months o.O.
KingDDD wrote: » Ashes is as niche of a game as wow was in 2004. Provided it doesn't run horribly and the end game loop exists for a variety of play styles/play times, it'll see well over a million subs. The question is can they sustain development long enough to get to the point where the before mentioned criterias are hit; alpha 2 will only be a year, beta 1 6 months, and beta 2/open beta being 3 months or less.
Fiddlez wrote: » So here's my take... WoW Hardcore, Extraction Shooters, Survival, Classic WoW. We are definitely seeing a trend in what gamers want. Theme Park/Railroad content games are going the way of Guitar Hero. Blizzard saw so much success with Classic and Hardcore they made them official. Survival games,some if not most have come with hardcore rule sets,( dropping all gear, open PVP) Ark being one of the biggest had both of these. Now even Blizzard is jumping in although I suspect it will be a watered down for everyone experience. Extraction shooters stemming from Tarkov's success(very hardcore style game) have started popping up everywhere. If I know one thing it's when companies and investors start putting their money in to it you know the numbers are there in some fashion and they like what they see. All I hear from everyone, Including Asmongold and other streamers is this is a niche game and it's not for everyone. Don While I don't disagree I think the degree of which they are implying is over stated, to the point that they think it might not be a very big game at all. While it certainly won't be COD, I also think it's potential could be much higher then New World saw at its peak. Which would be considered a massive success. I Understand that people don't want to get their hopes up and there's a lot of cynical people and deservedly so but if I am going to be real about it, the more I see the better it gets. It's like going from a narcissistic relationship to a healthy one, sometimes it just seems too good to be true but that's more about your past relationship then your current one. Just like that I think it's only fair we treat AoC and the devs with their fair shake. They have done nothing but be completely upfront and honest and currently in my eyes have the most integrity I have seen in a while and I have been around for a while.(I played UO and EQ1 a lot) There is a lot to look forward to and don't let your past disappoints ruin your experience. Judge it on its own merits. Don't buy into the cynical majority and copy past the copium quotes. I might be disappointed, that's definitely a possibility but I am also ok with that. At least as far as I can tell they are putting their best foot forward and for now that's enough.
Solvryn wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » So here's my take... WoW Hardcore, Extraction Shooters, Survival, Classic WoW. We are definitely seeing a trend in what gamers want. Theme Park/Railroad content games are going the way of Guitar Hero. Blizzard saw so much success with Classic and Hardcore they made them official. Survival games,some if not most have come with hardcore rule sets,( dropping all gear, open PVP) Ark being one of the biggest had both of these. Now even Blizzard is jumping in although I suspect it will be a watered down for everyone experience. Extraction shooters stemming from Tarkov's success(very hardcore style game) have started popping up everywhere. If I know one thing it's when companies and investors start putting their money in to it you know the numbers are there in some fashion and they like what they see. All I hear from everyone, Including Asmongold and other streamers is this is a niche game and it's not for everyone. Don While I don't disagree I think the degree of which they are implying is over stated, to the point that they think it might not be a very big game at all. While it certainly won't be COD, I also think it's potential could be much higher then New World saw at its peak. Which would be considered a massive success. I Understand that people don't want to get their hopes up and there's a lot of cynical people and deservedly so but if I am going to be real about it, the more I see the better it gets. It's like going from a narcissistic relationship to a healthy one, sometimes it just seems too good to be true but that's more about your past relationship then your current one. Just like that I think it's only fair we treat AoC and the devs with their fair shake. They have done nothing but be completely upfront and honest and currently in my eyes have the most integrity I have seen in a while and I have been around for a while.(I played UO and EQ1 a lot) There is a lot to look forward to and don't let your past disappoints ruin your experience. Judge it on its own merits. Don't buy into the cynical majority and copy past the copium quotes. I might be disappointed, that's definitely a possibility but I am also ok with that. At least as far as I can tell they are putting their best foot forward and for now that's enough. Niche can be added to that list of cool kid words people use to devalue others arguments. So I agree with your sentiment, Ashes isn't really niche. It's a call back to the oldschool in many ways. So the real test is how many people want to actually go back to the oldschool, go back home so to speak and how many people are just stuck in some nostalgia act. Personally, take me back to the oldschool. Games looked bad, but they where a hell of a lot more fun.
Dygz wrote: » Uh. No. Because WoW includes people who play MMORPGs on PvE-Only and RP servers, while Ashes will not. Ashes will probably also not include a significant number of players who play MMORPGs on PvP-Optional servers.
Depraved wrote: » a pve server doesnt mean there isnt any type of competition between players, it just means you cant be openly attacked at any time by other players, but you can still compete versus other players in different ways.
Depraved wrote: » pvp servers have people that enjoy competing vs other players. pve servers have people who enjoy competing vs other players and people who dont.
Depraved wrote: » its possible that the population of players who like competing vs other players is bigger than the population of players who dont like competing vs other players. in fact, most people enjoy cooperative-competitive activities, rather than solo or purely cooperative activities.
Solvryn wrote: » Niche can be added to that list of cool kid words people use to devalue others arguments. So I agree with your sentiment, Ashes isn't really niche. It's a call back to the oldschool in many ways. So the real test is how many people want to actually go back to the oldschool, go back home so to speak and how many people are just stuck in some nostalgia act. Personally, take me back to the oldschool. Games looked bad, but they where a hell of a lot more fun.
Abarat wrote: » As a self proclaimed former game tester, are you that positively absolutely sure that the corruption system wont be powerful enough (combined with all the no penalty ways to PVP) to mitigate ganking and not scare away the pvp averse?
Azherae wrote: » idk, I'm here because AoC theoretically on the macro-level claims a bunch of stuff that I like, and then keeps making decision changes that make me not want to play their specific implementation.
CROW3 wrote: » I’m curious what % of players will cancel their subs when they don’t get a daily login reward.
daveywavey wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » I’m curious what % of players will cancel their subs when they don’t get a daily login reward. 0%. If you remember, that was the thread where EVERYBODY was in full agreement.
Dygz wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Niche can be added to that list of cool kid words people use to devalue others arguments. So I agree with your sentiment, Ashes isn't really niche. It's a call back to the oldschool in many ways. So the real test is how many people want to actually go back to the oldschool, go back home so to speak and how many people are just stuck in some nostalgia act. Personally, take me back to the oldschool. Games looked bad, but they where a hell of a lot more fun. I disagree. I consider EvE Online, ArcheAge and Lineage II to be niche and also fairly successful. Especially EvE Online. I think if Ashes has the same population numbers as EvE Online, that would have significant value. If by old school, you mean UO...OK, I guess. If by old schoool, you include EQ and WoW - I expect Ashes to be more niche than those games.
