Noaani wrote: » As someone that is in to top end PvE as well as an amount of PvP, I can see a good number of reasons why someone that prefers PvE would have been looking at Ashes in the past. To start, there is no mention at all of PvP on the games kickstarter page. There is, however, a long list of primarily PvE games that the developers came from - games they wanted people to know "this has been our experience". Generally, when a company does that, it's a way of saying "if you liked these games, you will probably like what we are doing". If you first read the games kickstarter and then went to the games wiki page, you would think they were two different games. As to why anyone that isn't primarily concerned with PvP - not just PvP but actual perpetual competition with other players for basically everything - would still be looking at the game, I am not sure. Hope that perhaps the game will swing back to something closer to what was talked about on the kickstarter page, perhaps.
Dygz wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » yes, we know your stance. My statement is broad. "Has nothing to do with emotion (for me)" is your opinion. Emotion like feeling actual fear from getting pk'd, anxiety, and other reactions are very common for people and they do not like to pvp because of those reasons. Sorry if I was not clear enough. I was not talking about you personally. Fear of getting PK'd and anxiety is mostly a PvPer misperception. It's not very common at all.
Ravicus wrote: » yes, we know your stance. My statement is broad. "Has nothing to do with emotion (for me)" is your opinion. Emotion like feeling actual fear from getting pk'd, anxiety, and other reactions are very common for people and they do not like to pvp because of those reasons. Sorry if I was not clear enough. I was not talking about you personally.
rocsek wrote: » Noaani wrote: » As someone that is in to top end PvE as well as an amount of PvP, I can see a good number of reasons why someone that prefers PvE would have been looking at Ashes in the past. To start, there is no mention at all of PvP on the games kickstarter page. There is, however, a long list of primarily PvE games that the developers came from - games they wanted people to know "this has been our experience". Generally, when a company does that, it's a way of saying "if you liked these games, you will probably like what we are doing". If you first read the games kickstarter and then went to the games wiki page, you would think they were two different games. As to why anyone that isn't primarily concerned with PvP - not just PvP but actual perpetual competition with other players for basically everything - would still be looking at the game, I am not sure. Hope that perhaps the game will swing back to something closer to what was talked about on the kickstarter page, perhaps. This is literally the second paragraph of the Kickstarter..."Choosing your class, race and gear is a good start, but while most MMOs stop there, Ashes of Creation is just getting started. All of civilization is the responsibility of our players, and how that civilization evolves comes down to what our players decide. If you want a city, or marketplaces or the comfort of your own home, it’s up to you to build it. If a city is encroaching on your territory, it’s up to you to destroy it. Allies and enemies, friends and foes, these are words determined by you, not by us - there is no red and blue team for you to fall back on. Your grudges, your wars, your peace are real things, created by you, and the history of conflict is the history of the players. "
Vyril wrote: » Doesn't matter if the first time you saw Ashes was in kickstarter, or just learned of the project 2 weeks ago. As a PvE first player, what makes you look forward to PvE in AoC or what was the defining feature that you're looking forward to?
Noaani wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » If I add a chance that there will be pvp to any other pve game, lets say mythic + in retail wow. There's a chance that another group will show up during your run. Does that just remove the pve mechanics and factors in that dungeon? If you add PvP as a factor to actual top end content, that top end content becomes literally impossible. If it is still possible, it is not actual top end content. This is why open world encounters in games with PvP in such encounters are substantially less precise and demanding than in situations where PvP is not possible. As such, any encounter in which PvP is possible is simply not providing players with that PvE challenge. It may be providing a PvX challenge, but not a PvE challenge. While this is something that has been discussed on these forums a number of times, more to the point for me is the fact that this has been proven on live servers in at least one MMO, and so is not up for debate or discussion - at least not with me.
Sathrago wrote: » If I add a chance that there will be pvp to any other pve game, lets say mythic + in retail wow. There's a chance that another group will show up during your run. Does that just remove the pve mechanics and factors in that dungeon?
HumblePuffin wrote: » I mean with that line of thinking it doesn’t directly reference PvE either.
Ravicus wrote: » again, that is your opinion. It is impossible to debate someones opinion. You have yours, I have mine. You just cant go around saying "I am right and you are wrong because I think differently". It doesnt work that way.
Noaani wrote: » HumblePuffin wrote: » I mean with that line of thinking it doesn’t directly reference PvE either. Indeed it doesn't, but then we go back and look at the games they are proudly displaying the development team is from.
Sweatycup wrote: » You can't consider AoC a safe PvE game for anyone unless you just don't fight back and treat the players like NPC's when they kill you. The only safe place is instanced dungeons and raids and the major majority are not instanced which will be fought over for pvp. Even getting to said raid or dungeon you may die.. Getting to said instanced apartment you may die. YOU WILL BE KILLED BY PLAYERS IN AOC.
Dygz wrote: » Sweatycup wrote: » You can't consider AoC a safe PvE game for anyone unless you just don't fight back and treat the players like NPC's when they kill you. The only safe place is instanced dungeons and raids and the major majority are not instanced which will be fought over for pvp. Even getting to said raid or dungeon you may die.. Getting to said instanced apartment you may die. YOU WILL BE KILLED BY PLAYERS IN AOC. Yeah... I mean I'm not sure what the point of the question is. Anyone planning to play Ashes kinda has to be some form of PvP-sometimes player. I would think.
HumblePuffin wrote: » Noaani wrote: » HumblePuffin wrote: » I mean with that line of thinking it doesn’t directly reference PvE either. Indeed it doesn't, but then we go back and look at the games they are proudly displaying the development team is from. Like planetside and planet side 2 and SWG
Sathrago wrote: » I would argue that the tower of karthan and the cyclops are perfect examples of things that a pve player would try the game for and like, despite the pvp. This early on its already looking quite good. You also have the ever expanding types of enemies they have shown from minotaurs to zombies to dragons to flowers to elementals. etc etc. I am not even denying that the pvp could make those fights impossible or trivial so that they can be completed during pvp. My point is that they have quite clearly shown pve things that a normal pve player would probably like, and perhaps even stay for despite having to deal with pvp. I don't believe just because there was a game you saw that failed to deliver this appropriately means that all future games will never be able to do it, so why apply it as a rule or fact for this game thats still in alpha?
Sathrago wrote: » Its not up for debate?
Noaani wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » Its not up for debate? The fact that an encounter designed to test players to the actual mechanical limits of the game in an insolated manner being impossible to defeat when that isolation is removed is indeed not up for debate.
Dygz wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » again, that is your opinion. It is impossible to debate someones opinion. You have yours, I have mine. You just cant go around saying "I am right and you are wrong because I think differently". It doesnt work that way. LMAO I've been in PvPer v PvEer discussions for 10 years now. You don't have to accept the info I share. I don't feel any need to debate or convince you. I'm just sharing the info.
Sathrago wrote: » But to try and claim that this is why these pve features cannot be considered for drawing over pve players is just illogical.
Noaani wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » But to try and claim that this is why these pve features cannot be considered for drawing over pve players is just illogical. Yeah, you're right. That is why so many of the tens of millions of PvE MMO players are so keen on this game. Or - maybe, just perhaps, I'm right about the reasons some of my best friends aren't interested in this game. No, you must be right. It must be something else. Clearly those of us with decades of top end PvE experience just don't understand top end PvE content as well as you.
