PvE Players tell me why you follow Ashes of Creation

Doesn't matter if the first time you saw Ashes was in kickstarter, or just learned of the project 2 weeks ago.

As a PvE first player, what makes you look forward to PvE in AoC or what was the defining feature that you're looking forward to?

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Mag7spy

Ravicus wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Ravicus wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

From reading all the response, I have a bit of a different take.

Exploration, gathering & crafting, dynamic nodes, and ocean / water content all caught my eye from the start. That said, Ashes main differentiator is PvX - which is what I've sought in MMOs since UO. Be attacked by and attacking players is part of the narrative, which is why I played on PvP servers in other mmos.

The story I want to be a part of is one where the world is a dangerous place. Monsters, rugged biomes, and PLAYERS are part of that dangerous world. I don't box my experience as 'PvE' or 'PvP,' I want to play in a world where those boxes don't exist and there's just a world we explore & survive & battle and what happens happens.

Honestly i hate crafting / life skilling. New world made it a bit more fun, them building upon that from new world and making it feel randomly generated and like materials you gather are almost like loot boxes that can have random other elements in it really peak my interest. Feels like that kind of things is finally evolving in a more dynamic way over in the past feeling very static.

My hopes is that if the guilds work properly (the way I might like to do it) would be to have the people do what there desired roles would be. There are gatherers that love to gather, the refiners who would refine, and the crafters who would craft. Now for people that do not like doing that could contribute to the defense of the nodes, or getting blue prints from boss drops for the crafters. The crafters in turn could provide weapons and armor for the person who deserves and earned them. (crafters could basically have an armory to have weapons and armor available in bulk)

That could be the case, i know for my guild I'll be having people doing that and ones in charge of looking over others and such.

We still need to learn more about crafting and how that will work (i like the idea of corrupted mats, adds more depth and scarcity)

One big question that is huge though is how does enhancing work, are they going to be tradeable as well for weapons that are enhanced. What will be the difficulty, what will be the loss or negative effects of enhancing. I feel this is the part where if you have weapons made and are ones that are enhanced will be the ones with the most valued armories.

We can only wait and see until they show how things will work with enhancing though.

I agree. And you are right, the balancing of all that stuff wont be until we are doing alpha 2.

Well i don't really mean balancing but i mean like how will things work, we still just don't know enough and enhancing will be a big part I'm feeling.

Personally i hope they do other methods that are interesting and give reason to craft a lot besides straights up gear destruction if you fail. Once we see more on crafting and enhancing we will have a much more clear picture for players.

iccer

I don't consider myself a PvE player, though I have become that due to the nature of games I've played in the past few years (their PvP sucked mostly so that's why I only did PvE).

Back when I played Allods Online, I would do low lvl PvP, battlegrounds, arenas, 1v1s, even going as far as grouping up and invading enemy faction's capital. It was fun, and you really don't lose anything other than your time.

In Archeage, it was open-world PvP vs other faction as well, often competing for certain farming spots. It was also fun.

But the main content you have to do is PvE, always. You need to gear up and increase your power level through mostly PvE activities.

So onto the topic. What is the thing that brought me to Ashes?

Well, back in 2016, a guild I was in was coming back to Archeage for a fresh-start server. We did play for a bit, but quit after a few weeks/months. In 2017, someone from the guild linked a kickstarter from a certain ex-Archeage player that is looking to make his own game, due to his frustration with Archeage, and the MMORPG genre in general.

That alone is what pulled me in. Just the fact someone who played Archeage, which was an amazing game at its core, is looking to potentially create his own, better version of the game, without p2w.

Then came the discovery of ideas and systems that are going to be implemented.

The most exciting feature for me was the class system. The game can be amazing, but if it has a boring class system, then I'm unlikely to play it for long.
Augmentation and the possibilities it brings is honestly making me get excited every time I think about it (pause). Sadly, we still don't know much about how it will work, but so far it sounds promising.
I just want to combine different archetypes, which alters the class visually, and in terms of mechanics (whether the ability turns into melee or ranged, changes dmg type, etc.).
Imagine picking a Fighter + Mage combo. Instead of rush, you blink, instead of a whirlwind, you now do a whirlwind that's augmented with a certain element, it turns into a fiery tornado that applies ignite...just imagine those possibilities for most abilities. It allows players to make some unique classes, without relying on devs to keep introducing new classes (like in WoW for example).

Archeage had a decent class system, and I often changed between different specs/builds, because it offered many possibilities.
Another game with a good class system was Rift. Though I didn't play it much, it's definitely something I would want to see in other games.
Even WoW has a decent class system, where you have 3-4 different specializations, which offer different types of roles.

Another thing is the world. It's dynamic. The node system has a big impact on how the world will look like, to the type of content it offers, it's all player driven. Another thing tied to it are the events, which again, make the world feel more dynamic and alive.

Crafting that matters is alright. But having your own farm where you can harvest resources, like in Archeage, is something I find very important (the reason I have some "strong" feelings about Freeholds).

Farming stuff in general, whether it's farming mobs in the open world, or gathering stuff, is something that I'm always looking forward to. In Archeage, I remember the Hasla weapon farm. While it was tedious at the time, when I now look at it, it was actually enjoyable. You farm weapon fragments, and together with those you get coinpurses from mobs. It was a good way to get some early end-game gear, and it was a good way to farm some gold. It was interesting, because you also had to compete for the spot with other people. It felt rewarding once you completed it.

Nowadays, I just don't find that sort of stuff anymore. In GW2, you just do events over and over again. Drops don't matter at all most of the time. WoW, it's similar, where you just run old raids/dungeons, or harvest resources, though there are a lot of rare drops that are valuable.

In Allods Online, I remember just straight up killing mobs for gold for hours, just so I could convert that gold into premium currency, to buy certain stuff from the cash shop (as p2w as you'll get in MMO, it was awful).

So I do enjoy some sort of grind, if it gives me purpose and something to work towards. Games like BDO, while they are incredibly grindy, they don't make me want to grind, because I don't see the point.
I want the gold that I grind for to matter. In Archeage, it was so I could buy APEX, aka the premium time, as well as for the gear, consumables, and other stuff. All that stuff helped me become more powerful.
In Allods, like I mentioned, it was for p2w items from the cash shop. So again, it was to make myself more powerful.
Even in WoW, you can grind for a token aka sub time (though last I checked the prices were way way too high, that I don't think I can ever get that much gold in a month).

GW2 offers some lengthy grinds, like legendary weapons, but I do not care. It's way too complicated, it takes way too long, and the reward just isn't worth it. At best, you get a more convenient item that maybe looks better, and that's about it. No power increase, nothing. GW2 is basically all about the journey, rather than reward. While I myself want the journey to be as enjoyable as possible, I do prefer the reward (something GW2 doesn't really offer me).

So to summarize that whole thing. I want vertical progression, and I want rewards to matter. I do not want a constant gear treadmill necessarily, but I do need something to strive for, something that will make me more powerful, which means I will be stronger in PvP and PvE. Again, that is something Ashes will offer, where other games will not.

All in all, it's the overall experience. It's not because of a particular system that I'm excited about Ashes, other games have similar systems. It's due to all of those systems being present in one game, and due to the design pillars of the game. The only real concern I have is the implementation, but that's something we'll have to wait until the launch to see and experience.

Abarat

Liniker wrote: »

just another day with Noaani being wrong.

Well, at least he takes accountability when he is wrong and admits it, rather than obfuscating and making excuses and convoluted reasoning about why he is not really wrong at all.

Noaani wrote: »

That is because there aren't any.

This is not just Noaani's opinion, it is a known fact.

Noaani wrote: »

You are taking comments out of context - unsure if on purpose or not - but since I am sick of this shit on these forums, I'm calling it out early.

So cut this bullshit out right fucking now.

Uh.Oh. Daddy is mad.

Mag7spy

Abarat wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

just another day with Noaani being wrong.

Well, at least he takes accountability when he is wrong and admits it, rather than obfuscating and making excuses and convoluted reasoning about why he is not really wrong at all.

Noaani wrote: »

That is because there aren't any.

This is not just Noaani's opinion, it is a known fact.

Noaani wrote: »

You are taking comments out of context - unsure if on purpose or not - but since I am sick of this shit on these forums, I'm calling it out early.

So cut this bullshit out right fucking now.

Uh.Oh. Daddy is mad.

Abarat

Noaani wrote: »

If you first read the games kickstarter and then went to the games wiki page, you would think they were two different games.

.

This feels disingenuous.

Noaani wrote: »

since I am sick of this shit on these forums, I'm calling it out early.

So cut this bullshit out right fucking now.

Dhaiwon

This might sound silly or small, but the thing that caught my attention first, second and third was the hope of a "fully functional market" and meaningful life-skilling. For context, one of the most enjoyable things I know to do in MMO's is casual hunting of ordinary mobs. It's almost therapy to spend and hour or two doing that after a hard days work. But, it needs to feel meaningful.

So, a market for the things that comes out of that is a key element.

Other than that we have the node system, the seasons, the large map for exploration. Also the way the systems are interwoven interest me as well. Even if all of that would be fourth, and fifth and so on

So for the elephant in the room, while I am aware that PvP is going to be a central aspect of AoC, to me, it's just the engine needed to drive the market and crafting. It has very little direct value to me, and aside from when it is needed, defending caravans or nodes for instance, I don't really see myself actively seeking it out. And even when I do, it's probably more going to be about enduring than enjoying it.

At some point I was kinda hoping to get PvP action in a similar vein of the PvP-lakes in Warhammer Online but I'm not quite sure I will be getting that. At this point in time it feels like PvP in AoC is likely to be either too organised or not organised enough to hit that sweet spot in between the two.

That said, my interest is somewhat selective, so I can't really claim to be your average PvEr. Or maybe that is your average PvEr?

HumblePuffin

Dygz wrote: »

HumblePuffin wrote: »

If they only put up promotions of EverQuest development work done I would have expected something close to EverQuest, just planetside something similar to that, swg something similar to that. When I take all of those games together though in the context of what we are currently seeing, I think that list was very representative of what we are getting.

Well, with so many leads devs from SOE/Daybreak/EQ/EQNext...
I was expecting the devs to want to support Casual Challenge players and players who typically play on PvE-servers. And I accepted the pitch that only those who never want to experience PvP at all should have issues with Corruption being an insufficient PvP deterent.

Since the departure of Jeffrey Bard, every couple of months we get a reveal of new Hardcore Challenge features and mechanics and an ever increasing focus on ubiquitous competition and PvP mechanics and rulesets. I no longer consider Ashes to be attempting to appeal to EQ/EQ2 players in general.
I guess I might say that there will be some crossover with the EQ/EQ2 gamers who played on PvP servers and PvP-Optional servers. Probably the Hardcore Challenge gamers who played on those servers.

Part of the issue is that Steven says, "Ashes is not made for everyone." but, he's not clear about who it's made for and who it isn't made for.
And some of us are only now starting to discover we're on the "not made for us" list.

I can understand that. Sounds like a rather nuanced take. And I fully agree with some things in that regard.

Personally I think the open oceans auto flagged PvP isn’t that great of an idea. My personal hope is that the “open waters” qualifier will be reduced in size. I think a zone like that could provide interesting objective based flagged combat around objectives like rich treasure deposits/epic fishing spots/trade routes in a similar flavor to the caravan system, without taking up the entirety of the naval space.I don’t really have any experience with naval content though so that’s just my gut take.

My personal view, but the only people I really feel this game has no chance of “being for” are players who do not enjoy any kind of challenge, players who want instant gratification, players who want nothing more than to murder hobo all day.

With alllllllll the levers and systems put in place that we know about and potentially all of those that we do not know, I feel that there is more than a possibility that corruption may be enough of a PvP deterrent for you, or that getting a freehold is possible for a casual with commitment to that goal (meaning someone who is not sinking huge amounts of daily/weekly time in the game).

Maybe those levers get to a point that it’s still a no go for you. Testing and IS’s reaction to that active testing feed back will probably give us a much better idea if it’s just untenable for some people. I don’t think you fall into any of those 3 categories I listed tho, so I personally still feel there is hope for you and those like you with similar mindsets. I could 100% be wrong but I’m going to remain positive about it.

Ayeveegaming1

Dhaiwon wrote: »

This might sound silly or small, but the thing that caught my attention first, second and third was the hope of a "fully functional market" and meaningful life-skilling. For context, one of the most enjoyable things I know to do in MMO's is casual hunting of ordinary mobs. It's almost therapy to spend and hour or two doing that after a hard days work. But, it needs to feel meaningful.

So, a market for the things that comes out of that is a key element.

Other than that we have the node system, the seasons, the large map for exploration. Also the way the systems are interwoven interest me as well. Even if all of that would be fourth, and fifth and so on

So for the elephant in the room, while I am aware that PvP is going to be a central aspect of AoC, to me, it's just the engine needed to drive the market and crafting. It has very little direct value to me, and aside from when it is needed, defending caravans or nodes for instance, I don't really see myself actively seeking it out. And even when I do, it's probably more going to be about enduring than enjoying it.

At some point I was kinda hoping to get PvP action in a similar vein of the PvP-lakes in Warhammer Online but I'm not quite sure I will be getting that. At this point in time it feels like PvP in AoC is likely to be either too organised or not organised enough to hit that sweet spot in between the two.

That said, my interest is somewhat selective, so I can't really claim to be your average PvEr. Or maybe that is your average PvEr?

When you mentioned you like to explore and such, it reminded me of one of the things they mentioned. Archeology, and the ability to discover new dungeons and such.

Boneshatter

I honestly think its unproductive to try to separate pve players from pvp players. In my experience the purely pve players are very few in number and almost certainly won't consider this game. The vast majority of gamers I have played with or spoken to like both.

On pve servers people would always line up for scheduled pvp like Tol Barad and Wintergrasp in WoW. De facto pvp like arena and battlegrounds have high participation on pve servers. You'll even see people doing "off the cuff" pvp like attacking/defending towns, open world pvp objectives, and dueling on pve servers. Heck, FFXiv has high participation in their battleground-esque content and that game is about as pve focused as it gets.

I think the much better dividing line to place is between players that like consensual pvp and those that like non-consensual pvp. Can they turn and walk away or can they not. In my experience the majority of players enjoy pvp, but they want the choice.

I've noticed a common theme in various Ashes forums where everyone wants to put the consensual and non-consensual pvp players into the same basket and the pve players into another basket just to suit their point. That's an us vs them strawman because the pve only players aren't even here. They create a Boogeyman just to have an enemy and it serves no purpose.

Toothpaste

Even though this game will have a corruption system that will deter players from constantly ganking me in the open world while I am gathering resources AND the inventory system will prevent most players from looting my gathered resources, I would say this game is not for me and I will not play. I only enjoy pvp when I have the ability to toggle pvp participation on/off whenever I want to. I don’t like the idea of designated pvp areas because then I can’t explore them because players will just gank me. Freeholds were my only hope of solo playing a pvx game, and since Steven won’t just give me a freehold I will not play this game.

Dygz

iccer wrote: »

In games like WoW, it's mostly frustration, rather than anxiety. You really lose nothing by getting PK'd, other than your time and maybe pride. The main emotion here is frustration, because someone just interrupted your gameplay.

That's an interesting take.
I mean... in Bless Online... getting PKed was irrelevant.
It took maybe 45 seconds out of my gameplay and happened maybe once per week.
I just let the person kill me. Extremely quick corpse run.
No anxiety and no frustration.

In NWO, PvP was instanced. You chose when to participate. The only reason to go to the instance was to PvP.
It was mostly capture the flag or base defense/destruction.
In both, I pretty much just concentrated on capturing as many flags as possible as quickly as possible.
I let people kill me as much as they wanted to. I didn't waste time fighting back.
No frustration and no anxiety.

I had no frustration and no anxiety in Ashes Alpha 1 Sieges.

So... again...
My issue isn't really about fear and anxiety from being PKed.
It is frustration and annoyance from having my intended goals and gameplay interrupted by non-consnsual PvP when I'm not in the mood for PvP combat.
Some other player is forcing me to do something I'm not in the mood for. How much of a negative impact is that going to have on my game session goals?

If Corruption is in play... and I can punish the person who interrupts my gameplay with Corruption.
I'm probably OK with that... as long as Corruption is a signifcant enough deterrent that it doesn't occur with more frequency than I die from a mob. And as long as the TTK is quick enough that I'm not wasting significant time on an activity I'm not in the mood for.
So, I don't have much fear or anxiety about that.
What I'm not going to do is play on a server that as large permanent zones with auto-consent, Corruption-free PvP. Because that is a PvP ruleset I abhor.

iccer wrote: »

In games like Ashes, Albion Online, etc. it's going to be a little bit different. Here, fear and anxiety are more prominent, because you actually lose stuff when you die. You don't just lose a few minutes of your time, you lose all that time you previously spent gathering materials, or getting gear. It feels like you spent all that time for nothing, because you now have to do it all over again, because someone just PK'd you. Alternatively, you could go back and try to PK that person and get your stuff back, but if you're someone who dislikes PvP, it's unlikely you would do that.

Exactly. How much time do I waste recouping losses due to some other player deciding I have to participate in an activity I'm not in the mood for?

Dygz

Boneshatter wrote: »

I honestly think its unproductive to try to separate pve players from pvp players. In my experience the purely pve players are very few in number and almost certainly won't consider this game. The vast majority of gamers I have played with or spoken to like both.

I'm not going to play on the same servers as highly competitive gamers who have no respect for the concept of non-consensual PvP. Especially if the server has large, permanent, open world zones with auto-consent FFA PvP.
PvE-Only servers typically have the highest populations for EQ/EQ2/WoW. And 30% of the players on those servers enjoy PvP sometimes. Yes.

Boneshatter wrote: »

On pve servers people would always line up for scheduled pvp like Tol Barad and Wintergrasp in WoW. De facto pvp like arena and battlegrounds have high participation on pve servers. You'll even see people doing "off the cuff" pvp like attacking/defending towns, open world pvp objectives, and dueling on pve servers. Heck, FFXiv has high participation in their battleground-esque content and that game is about as pve focused as it gets.

Right. Here, you seem to be saying that even players on PvE-Only servers are often OK with consensual PvP.

Boneshatter wrote: »

I think the much better dividing line to place is between players that like consensual pvp and those that like non-consensual pvp. Can they turn and walk away or can they not. In my experience the majority of players enjoy pvp, but they want the choice.

Exactly.

Boneshatter wrote: »

I've noticed a common theme in various Ashes forums where everyone wants to put the consensual and non-consensual pvp players into the same basket and the pve players into another basket just to suit their point. That's an us vs them strawman because the pve only players aren't even here. They create a Boogeyman just to have an enemy and it serves no purpose.

I usually devide it by the gamers who typically play MMORPGs on PvP servers and the players who typically play on PvE-Only servers.
But, yes, the real conundrum is: How do you get the players for whom nonconsensual PvP is a major issue to agree to play on the same servers as the gamers who refuse to acknowledge non-consensual PvP as a valid concept?

I like cake sometimes. I'm not afraid to eat cake.
What I won't stand for is someone else shoving cake down my throat when I'm not in the mood to eat cake - especially not after I've already voluntarily filled my stomach with cake. And I'm not going to go anywhere that has some kind clause stating as soon as you enter the area you auto-consent that if someone shoves cake down your throat, you can't have them arrested and punished for assault.

iccer

Dygz wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

In games like WoW, it's mostly frustration, rather than anxiety. You really lose nothing by getting PK'd, other than your time and maybe pride. The main emotion here is frustration, because someone just interrupted your gameplay.

That's an interesting take.
I mean... in Bless Online... getting PKed was irrelevant.
It took maybe 45 seconds out of my gameplay and happened maybe once per week.
I just let the person kill me. Extremely quick corpse run.
No anxiety and no frustration.

In NWO, PvP was instanced. You chose when to participate. The only reason to go to the instance was to PvP.
It was mostly capture the flag or base defense/destruction.
In both, I pretty much just concentrated on capturing as many flags as possible as quickly as possible.
I let people kill me as much as they wanted to. I didn't waste time fighting back.
No frustration and no anxiety.

I had no frustration and no anxiety in Ashes Alpha 1 Sieges.

So... again...
My issue isn't really about fear and anxiety from being PKed.
It is frustration and annoyance from having my intended goals and gameplay interrupted by non-consnsual PvP when I'm not in the mood for PvP combat.
Some other player is forcing me to do something I'm not in the mood for. How much of a negative impact is that going to have on my game session goals?

If Corruption is in play... and I can punish the person who interrupts my gameplay with Corruption.
I'm probably OK with that... as long as Corruption is a signifcant enough deterrent that it doesn't occur with more frequency than I die from a mob. And as long as the TTK is quick enough that I'm not wasting significant time on an activity I'm not in the mood for.
So, I don't have much fear or anxiety about that.
What I'm not going to do is play on a server that as large permanent zones with auto-consent, Corruption-free PvP. Because that is a PvP ruleset I abhor.

iccer wrote: »

In games like Ashes, Albion Online, etc. it's going to be a little bit different. Here, fear and anxiety are more prominent, because you actually lose stuff when you die. You don't just lose a few minutes of your time, you lose all that time you previously spent gathering materials, or getting gear. It feels like you spent all that time for nothing, because you now have to do it all over again, because someone just PK'd you. Alternatively, you could go back and try to PK that person and get your stuff back, but if you're someone who dislikes PvP, it's unlikely you would do that.

Exactly. How much time do I waste recouping losses due to some other player deciding I have to participate in an activity I'm not in the mood for?

I think we pretty much agree then. I just didn't go into the consensual / non-consensual talk, because I thought we were strictly talking about non-consensual PKing.

Obviously in settings like battlegrounds, arenas, sieges, where it's a consensual PvP experience, you're fine with getting killed. Though it can be frustrating if you're super competitive, and die in a stupid way, but that's besides the point.

Also, getting PK'd in a game where dying doesn't really do anything to you, other than waste maybe 30sec to 1 min of your time, is also not something that's going to make you super emotional. It's just something you don't want to worry about, because it messes with your gameplay experience and what you're trying to do in game. Absolutely fine with that.

I was just arguing from my personal experience about your point how "Fear of getting PK'd and anxiety is mostly a PvPer misperception. It's not very common at all.". Imo it is common to some degree with games like Albion and Ashes, like I mentioned. Though I guess a lot of players would just straight up avoid even playing those games, so there won't be any anxiety to speak of.

Dygz

Exactly.
Gamers like Steven try to pursue the adrenaline rush from risk v reward - and are highly competitive.
Steven is obsessed with everyone feeling that adrenaline rush much of the time.

I am a non-competitive, Casual Challenge Carebear who sometimes enjoys PvP combat.
I'm not motivated by adrenaline rush or risk v reaward or competition vs other players.
I'm not interested in any of that at all.
I don't play MMORPGs so I can feel fear and anxiety from the risk of loss. (Or pride for having the longest standing Node on the server.)
So.. yes.. just as I'm not interested in playing EvE Online, ArcheAge or Albion - I'm no longer interested in playing Ashes.

Garrtok

Hope not only FF and Wow people are interested in ashes. There were some really good pvp focused MMOs. Iam pretty sure for PVE only people ashes is the wrong MMO

Taleof2Cities

Garrtok wrote: »

Hope not only FF and Wow people are interested in ashes. There were some really good pvp focused MMOs. Iam pretty sure for PVE only people ashes is the wrong MMO

I don’t think WoW and FF are games that you want to showcase as PvP-focused, @Garrtok.

There will be (some) PvE content, though … such as the instanced dungeons and raids.

But, agree … the Ashes PvX playstyle will not be for everyone.

Dygz

Also wrong for some PvP-sometimes people.
There should still be plenty of fans of EvE Online, ArcheAge, Albion and Lineage II for Ashes to be a success.

Vyril

Toothpaste wrote: »

Even though this game will have a corruption system that will deter players from constantly ganking me in the open world while I am gathering resources AND the inventory system will prevent most players from looting my gathered resources, I would say this game is not for me and I will not play. I only enjoy pvp when I have the ability to toggle pvp participation on/off whenever I want to. I don’t like the idea of designated pvp areas because then I can’t explore them because players will just gank me. Freeholds were my only hope of solo playing a pvx game, and since Steven won’t just give me a freehold I will not play this game.

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not.

Dygz

Bwahaha!

Abarat

Man. these are some great discussions. I LOVE it.

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