Shabooey wrote: » My question is why are you still here?
Noaani wrote: » Shabooey wrote: » My question is why are you still here? The absolute core of Ashes is great, but if they can't get the ancilliary details right, it won't be. Right now, my guild is completely uninterested in this game based on the ancilliary details, and I am unlikely to play it at all for that same reason. However, development seens things change. My hope is that some of those ancillary details will change.
Shabooey wrote: » Can I ask a question? It seems there a quite a few people on this thread and in the forums in general that have stated they have no interest in Ashes anymore and don't intend to play it. My question is why are you still here? Responding in the forums, following the development, if you're not going to play it? I'm assuming it's because it's in development and might change? Not trying to start any arguments or accuse anyone of anything, there's enough of that already, just interested as to why.
Dygz wrote: » Shabooey wrote: » Can I ask a question? It seems there a quite a few people on this thread and in the forums in general that have stated they have no interest in Ashes anymore and don't intend to play it. My question is why are you still here? Responding in the forums, following the development, if you're not going to play it? I'm assuming it's because it's in development and might change? Not trying to start any arguments or accuse anyone of anything, there's enough of that already, just interested as to why. I haven't said I have no interest in Ashes at all. I have no interest to play after launch. Perhaps more precisely, I have 0 interest in pursuing any of the progression paths after launch. And, when I wish to get my 8+ hour per day MMORPG fix, that will be with several other games, rather than in Ashes. I backed the Kickstarter because I want the Ashes devs to gain experience creating and implementing systems like Nodes so that even if Corruption does not work to my satisfaction to minimize non-consensual PvP, when these devs eventually move on (for whatever reasons, like Bard and Bacon did) to design/develop some other MMORPG that has separate PvE-Only servers or a PvP rule-set I'm comfortable with, it won't take them 5+ years for them to create Node mechanics. I'm still here because I plan to test the features I like through Alpha 2 and the Betas. And I still support the game because I have friends in the forums who want to play. When people wonder why I no longer wish to play, I can try to explain that to them while being happy that they have not yet stumbled upon any dealbreakers - and that they are loving the changes to the design. Even if those design change cause me to not want to play. I also have friends who are game devs working for IS. And... I'm still very curious to see how you convince players who abhor non-consensual PvP to play on the same servers as gamers who don't even believe that non-consensual PvP is a valid concept.
Noaani wrote: » Abarat wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Exactly. Gamers like Steven try to pursue the adrenaline rush from risk v reward - and are highly competitive. Steven is obsessed with everyone feeling that adrenaline rush much of the time. I respectfully disagree with this. I think Steven is working for trying to create a world where effort and cooperation produce rewards. Conflict is a singular component of human existence. you feel that dygz... you just prefer a passive method of aggression.. your mere continued existence here proves that to me. The problem with saying Steven is trying to produce a game where effort and cooperation produce rewards is that, well, it isn't true. Success produces rewards in Ashes. While it may be true that you need effort and cooperation to achieve success, if that effort and cooperation are in competition with others that also have effort and cooperation, then someones effort and cooperation is going to go unrewarded. Games where effort and cooperation are rewarded are games like WoW. If you get together enough people, and if you are good enough you can try to take on the highest tier content in the game. Effort and cooperation are required, but since you are not competing against anyone for that kill, it is purely a matter of your effort and cooperation that determine your success. I'm not saying this in any hopes of Intrepid changing the games design, but rather in changing your opinion. Effort and cooperation in Ashes means absolutely nothing without success - and thus effort and cooperation do not produce rewards, success does.
Abarat wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Exactly. Gamers like Steven try to pursue the adrenaline rush from risk v reward - and are highly competitive. Steven is obsessed with everyone feeling that adrenaline rush much of the time. I respectfully disagree with this. I think Steven is working for trying to create a world where effort and cooperation produce rewards. Conflict is a singular component of human existence. you feel that dygz... you just prefer a passive method of aggression.. your mere continued existence here proves that to me.
Dygz wrote: » Exactly. Gamers like Steven try to pursue the adrenaline rush from risk v reward - and are highly competitive. Steven is obsessed with everyone feeling that adrenaline rush much of the time.
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » so you cant define it, its also not something that you know it when you see it. No, I said I don't want to say you know it when you see it because that is a cop out. I also specifically said the number of wipes to the content was a guide for those unfamiliar with top end content to get an idea of the difficulty at hand, rather than being an actual attempt at a definition. Your point that difficulty can be subjective is true - but keep in mind that a guild taking on top end content will rid itself of people that take too long to learn these things. Since that 500 deaths comment was for the first guild to kill the encounter in the entire game, it should be assumed that the guild in question is made up of some of the faster learners playing that game (they wouldn't get the first kill otherwise - logically). Now, you asked what appeared to be an earnest question, and so I gave you an honest answer. Your follow up to that answer suggests anything other than earnestness on your part - it suggests a strong desire to not understand at all costs. I've given you the above information on the off chance you are actually earnestly asking, but I'm not inclined to waste my time answering such questions if you are not indeed earnest in asking these questions.
Depraved wrote: » so you cant define it, its also not something that you know it when you see it.
Dygz wrote: » Shabooey wrote: » Can I ask a question? It seems there a quite a few people on this thread and in the forums in general that have stated they have no interest in Ashes anymore and don't intend to play it. My question is why are you still here? Responding in the forums, following the development, if you're not going to play it? I'm assuming it's because it's in development and might change? Not trying to start any arguments or accuse anyone of anything, there's enough of that already, just interested as to why. I haven't said I have no interest in Ashes at all. I have no interest to play after launch. Perhaps more precisely, I have 0 interest in pursuing any of the progression paths after launch. And, when I wish to get my 8+ hour per day MMORPG fix, that will be with several other games, rather than in Ashes. I backed the Kickstarter because I want the Ashes devs to gain experience creating and implementing systems like Nodes so that even if Corruption does not work to my satisfaction to minimize non-consensual PvP, when these devs eventually move on (for whatever reasons, like Bard and Bacon did) to design/develop some other MMORPG that has separate PvE-Only servers or a PvP rule-set I'm comfortable with, it won't take them 5+ years for them to create Node mechanics.
acki02 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Abarat wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Exactly. Gamers like Steven try to pursue the adrenaline rush from risk v reward - and are highly competitive. Steven is obsessed with everyone feeling that adrenaline rush much of the time. I respectfully disagree with this. I think Steven is working for trying to create a world where effort and cooperation produce rewards. Conflict is a singular component of human existence. you feel that dygz... you just prefer a passive method of aggression.. your mere continued existence here proves that to me. The problem with saying Steven is trying to produce a game where effort and cooperation produce rewards is that, well, it isn't true. Success produces rewards in Ashes. While it may be true that you need effort and cooperation to achieve success, if that effort and cooperation are in competition with others that also have effort and cooperation, then someones effort and cooperation is going to go unrewarded. Games where effort and cooperation are rewarded are games like WoW. If you get together enough people, and if you are good enough you can try to take on the highest tier content in the game. Effort and cooperation are required, but since you are not competing against anyone for that kill, it is purely a matter of your effort and cooperation that determine your success. I'm not saying this in any hopes of Intrepid changing the games design, but rather in changing your opinion. Effort and cooperation in Ashes means absolutely nothing without success - and thus effort and cooperation do not produce rewards, success does. Huuuuuuh? If you need effort and cooperation to achieve success, and success gets you a reward, then how "effort and cooperation do not produce rewards"?? Just because A doesn't always result in B doesn't mean that B is not a result of A. An additional condition that can fail does not negate the condition that came before it.
Depraved wrote: » you know "node mechanics" is just a tree in programming. It's a solved problem. it has been solved for decades now >_> what takes time is all the art and assets that these nodes will have.
Dygz wrote: » Depraved wrote: » you know "node mechanics" is just a tree in programming. It's a solved problem. it has been solved for decades now >_> what takes time is all the art and assets that these nodes will have. Um. I think what you mean by node mechanics is different than what I mean by Node mechanics. What I mean by Node mechanics is the watered down version of EQNext's StoryBricks that the Ashes Devs are trying to implement. You're correct in that it's now common for MMOs to include village/town/city construction into their design. But, I've been waiting for an MMORPG to actually have that playable for 10 years now. So, having that implemented quickly has not been solved yet. Also, "solved" doesn't necessarily mean that many or most game designers are able to easily communicate their vision to the programmers. It also doesn't mean the programmers can adequately and quickly troubleshoot and offer solutions to snags in the code or implementation as it relates to MMORPGs specifically. Or that the designers and programmers are well-versed in how to easily articulate their vision to the artists. That comes with experience and practice.
Noaani wrote: » acki02 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Abarat wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Exactly. Gamers like Steven try to pursue the adrenaline rush from risk v reward - and are highly competitive. Steven is obsessed with everyone feeling that adrenaline rush much of the time. I respectfully disagree with this. I think Steven is working for trying to create a world where effort and cooperation produce rewards. Conflict is a singular component of human existence. you feel that dygz... you just prefer a passive method of aggression.. your mere continued existence here proves that to me. The problem with saying Steven is trying to produce a game where effort and cooperation produce rewards is that, well, it isn't true. Success produces rewards in Ashes. While it may be true that you need effort and cooperation to achieve success, if that effort and cooperation are in competition with others that also have effort and cooperation, then someones effort and cooperation is going to go unrewarded. Games where effort and cooperation are rewarded are games like WoW. If you get together enough people, and if you are good enough you can try to take on the highest tier content in the game. Effort and cooperation are required, but since you are not competing against anyone for that kill, it is purely a matter of your effort and cooperation that determine your success. I'm not saying this in any hopes of Intrepid changing the games design, but rather in changing your opinion. Effort and cooperation in Ashes means absolutely nothing without success - and thus effort and cooperation do not produce rewards, success does. Huuuuuuh? If you need effort and cooperation to achieve success, and success gets you a reward, then how "effort and cooperation do not produce rewards"?? Just because A doesn't always result in B doesn't mean that B is not a result of A. An additional condition that can fail does not negate the condition that came before it. Effort and cooperate in Ashes do not necessarily result in rewards, thus the statement that effort and cooperation result in rewards is false. The statement may be able to be made true with an amendment, but as it stands, it is false.
acki02 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » acki02 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Abarat wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Exactly. Gamers like Steven try to pursue the adrenaline rush from risk v reward - and are highly competitive. Steven is obsessed with everyone feeling that adrenaline rush much of the time. I respectfully disagree with this. I think Steven is working for trying to create a world where effort and cooperation produce rewards. Conflict is a singular component of human existence. you feel that dygz... you just prefer a passive method of aggression.. your mere continued existence here proves that to me. The problem with saying Steven is trying to produce a game where effort and cooperation produce rewards is that, well, it isn't true. Success produces rewards in Ashes. While it may be true that you need effort and cooperation to achieve success, if that effort and cooperation are in competition with others that also have effort and cooperation, then someones effort and cooperation is going to go unrewarded. Games where effort and cooperation are rewarded are games like WoW. If you get together enough people, and if you are good enough you can try to take on the highest tier content in the game. Effort and cooperation are required, but since you are not competing against anyone for that kill, it is purely a matter of your effort and cooperation that determine your success. I'm not saying this in any hopes of Intrepid changing the games design, but rather in changing your opinion. Effort and cooperation in Ashes means absolutely nothing without success - and thus effort and cooperation do not produce rewards, success does. Huuuuuuh? If you need effort and cooperation to achieve success, and success gets you a reward, then how "effort and cooperation do not produce rewards"?? Just because A doesn't always result in B doesn't mean that B is not a result of A. An additional condition that can fail does not negate the condition that came before it. Effort and cooperate in Ashes do not necessarily result in rewards, thus the statement that effort and cooperation result in rewards is false. The statement may be able to be made true with an amendment, but as it stands, it is false. Logically it is not false. Just because sometimes there's not enough clay doesn't render the statement "clay is made into bricks" untrue.
Noaani wrote: » acki02 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » acki02 wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Abarat wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Exactly. Gamers like Steven try to pursue the adrenaline rush from risk v reward - and are highly competitive. Steven is obsessed with everyone feeling that adrenaline rush much of the time. I respectfully disagree with this. I think Steven is working for trying to create a world where effort and cooperation produce rewards. Conflict is a singular component of human existence. you feel that dygz... you just prefer a passive method of aggression.. your mere continued existence here proves that to me. The problem with saying Steven is trying to produce a game where effort and cooperation produce rewards is that, well, it isn't true. Success produces rewards in Ashes. While it may be true that you need effort and cooperation to achieve success, if that effort and cooperation are in competition with others that also have effort and cooperation, then someones effort and cooperation is going to go unrewarded. Games where effort and cooperation are rewarded are games like WoW. If you get together enough people, and if you are good enough you can try to take on the highest tier content in the game. Effort and cooperation are required, but since you are not competing against anyone for that kill, it is purely a matter of your effort and cooperation that determine your success. I'm not saying this in any hopes of Intrepid changing the games design, but rather in changing your opinion. Effort and cooperation in Ashes means absolutely nothing without success - and thus effort and cooperation do not produce rewards, success does. Huuuuuuh? If you need effort and cooperation to achieve success, and success gets you a reward, then how "effort and cooperation do not produce rewards"?? Just because A doesn't always result in B doesn't mean that B is not a result of A. An additional condition that can fail does not negate the condition that came before it. Effort and cooperate in Ashes do not necessarily result in rewards, thus the statement that effort and cooperation result in rewards is false. The statement may be able to be made true with an amendment, but as it stands, it is false. Logically it is not false. Just because sometimes there's not enough clay doesn't render the statement "clay is made into bricks" untrue. I mean, this is also a false statement without an amendment. I took some pottery classes a few years ago. We made a vase out of clay. If you were to say "clay is sometimes made in to bricks" that statement would be true regardless of how much clay you have on hand. If you say "effort and cooperation sometimes produce rewards", then that is an accurate statement.
