PvE Players tell me why you follow Ashes of Creation

Doesn't matter if the first time you saw Ashes was in kickstarter, or just learned of the project 2 weeks ago.

As a PvE first player, what makes you look forward to PvE in AoC or what was the defining feature that you're looking forward to?

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Ludullu

Abarat wrote: »

We have not seen the Rogue archetype either, but you believe it will exist, right?

Since they admit they have not perfected basic core features, I am sure end game PVE is not their current focus.

Showing off archetypes is a way more tangible thing than pve AI needs to be. Also, talking about AI wouldn't just mean talking about the highest lvl of difficulty. It would imply behavior of all mobs in the game and the range of their actions.

Just as that small hint at what some mobs can do with the spiders raising their legs to show that they've noticed you. That's an "AI discussion" of sorts. So, obviously, there's already some form of AI implemented in the testing client. Why not just talk a bit more about the plans for its future?

Also, making a powerpoint presentation with a few devs would probably be way easier to set up than their usual "let's get several people together, boot up the client and hope and pray that the client will work as well as we want it to for our goal". People seemed to have loved the PP part of the FH showcase, so I'm sure that talking about pve plans would excite a shitton of people.

Every damn time I watch Asmon's reaction to AoC updates his chat just shits on the game. And Asmon's audience is full of pvers of all kinds, from Noaani's lvls to the most casual dudes like Asmon. Steven's a marketing dude. The best marketing move rn would be to showcase pve plans and announce final date for A2 sales. EZ money

Dygz

Seems like we will have more than a handful of dev streams before we get to A2, so plenty of time to do a PvE or Dungeons/Raids "powerpoint".
We were supposed to see Rogue in A1, players were eager for it, but it wasn't ready.
This is the third time we've seen Cleric Active Skills demoed. If Rogue were ready, it would have made way more sense to hype us with Rogue rather than show us Cleric again.

I would hope that Nodes will not be delayed yet again. So... we should be seeing Nodes at the end of Aug.

It's not impossible Rogue could be demoed at the end of September.
We shall see.

Meztopheles

Dygz wrote: »

With regard to exceptional PvE and WoW - I would have agreed with you prior to Dragonflight.
Dragonflight has solved the content issues I've had with WoW for the previous 12 years.
I was expecting Ashes (Nodes) to do that - especially if it had released before 2020. Or before Dragonflight.
Now I don't need to deal with PvP to get my MMORPG itch scratched.

Perhaps I would feel the same about Dragonflight, but prior experiences don't leave me with enough goodwill to bother finding out.

Dygz wrote: »

Ashes can't have superior PvE because Steven's vision of PvX is that all of the PvE is firmly integrated as much as possible with PvP. As much as possible, Steven does not want PvP content or PvE content - he would have 100% PvX content if he could.
And that is more PvP and competition than I am interested in.

If by PVE you mean content entirely divorced from any PVP integration then you may be right, I wouldn't go so far as to say "can't" but it's unlikely by that definition. But even PVE in other games has competition for world firsts, best clear times, who gets the best gear, or even things like preventing people from accessing certain mobs. There's very often competition of some kind or another in activities most would call PVE.

Personally, I'm excited for PVX/PVE which involves other people raising up certain NPC/Organization interests and my having the opportunity to join them in or against the cause. That's PVE (or PVX as you'd probably call it) that sounds superior to being chosen one number one million eight hundred thousand and 2nd doing the same thing all the other numbers did before me (not to mention the "same thing" is typically boring and/or lame in the first place).

Dygz wrote: »

Genres that are not MMORPGs, specifically, are going to have different design goals.
And will be designed to scratch different itches.
Baldur's Gate 3 is great for scratching the small group multiplayer online RPG itch.
It is not going to be able to scratch the MMORPG itch.

I think we're just different in this regard. I don't have an MMORPG itch, just other itches which could be, but more often are not, satisfied by MMO's. Hoping this one is an exception.

Dygz wrote: »

I think "advantage" is not the correct word.
Other players affecting dynamic change on the world has a lot of appeal.
Meaningful PvP Conflict also has some appeal.
For me, a design that has an obsession with competition and Risk v Reward has negative appeal - and overrides any possible interest in the rest of the game.
Because I am a non-competitive, Casual Challenge carebear.

There are better ways to communicate the point but I think it did its job well enough.

Other players affecting the world is the whole appeal to me. Otherwise, I'd rather just play a single-player game or read a book, either of which is pretty well guaranteed to have a superior story compared with an MMO. And while I think you're with me somewhat on the PVE side, it seems like not so much on the PVP side. Though again, I'm not supportive of systems that allow PVP players to ruin the experience of other players. It should be designed in a way that will inevitably cause some frustrations, but for those frustrations to be the price paid for a more meaningful world and ultimately more fun instead of less. If it's causing more frustration than fun, it's bad and I'd agree it takes the ideas of competition and risk V reward too far. Whether or not that will be the case, it's too early for me to speculate or argue about as there's just not enough information yet.

Dygz wrote: »

Yep, different playstyles will have diferent perspectives. And different dealbreakers.
That's OK.
My Bartle Score is: Explorer 87; Socializer 73; Achiever 47; Killer 0

I took the Bartle test just to see and got:

67% Explorer
60% Achiever
53% Socialiser
20% Killer

Not sure I'd agree fully but it's interesting. Feel like I'd switch Achiever and Explorer scores and add more to the Achiever from both Explorer and Socialiser. Also, I'm not confident that test accurately measures much of anything. For instance, I got a low killer score, but that's because I don't like "preying" on weak victims as it so often worded its questions, but I enjoy fighting my peers in honorable fights and conquering enemies (of my guild/world/node, whatever it happens to be), so I'm more PVP oriented than this would indicate, I'm just not a jerk (mostly).

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

You cant have a puppy without his master.

@Noaani You know you sound very pathetic saying shit like that, kinda embarrassing to attack people like that just because they disagree with you,

I think you'd be surprised to know that screenshots of the stupid shit you say here are often posted on the discord and people have a good laugh lol

I guess they're all puppies?

you just trapped inside your bubble thinking you are so cool with your forum dwelling insults and dumb takes, when the reality is, thats just sad

Dygz

Meztopheles wrote: »

Perhaps I would feel the same about Dragonflight, but prior experiences don't leave me with enough goodwill to bother finding out.

I feel you!

Meztopheles wrote: »

If by PVE you mean content entirely divorced from any PVP integration then you may be right, I wouldn't go so far as to say "can't" but it's unlikely by that definition. But even PVE in other games has competition for world firsts, best clear times, who gets the best gear, or even things like preventing people from accessing certain mobs. There's very often competition of some kind or another in activities most would call PVE.

I'd say that all MMORPGs have options for competition - especially indirect competition - that can be easily ignored. Best clear time is not really something designed by the devs. Who gets the best gear is not inherently competitive. Gamers can make stuff that's not designed to be a competition into some form of competition. Sure.

Meztopheles wrote: »

Personally, I'm excited for PVX/PVE which involves other people raising up certain NPC/Organization interests and my having the opportunity to join them in or against the cause. That's PVE (or PVX as you'd probably call it) that sounds superior to being chosen one number one million eight hundred thousand and 2nd doing the same thing all the other numbers did before me (not to mention the "same thing" is typically boring and/or lame in the first place).

Sure. I don't think anyone is saying that all forms of PvX are bad.
I'm non-competitive, so I don't really care whether I've done the same thing all the other numbers did before me. I can find ways to be unique when I wish to be unique - like having my main character reach max Level wearing only starting rags.
The primary issue with having a static world, rather than a dynamic world is that there's no reason to talk to other players. With a dynamic world, we will be asking other players, "Hey! Now that Metro X has been destroyed, where can I go to get Y?"

Meztopheles wrote: »

I think we're just different in this regard. I don't have an MMORPG itch, just other itches which could be, but more often are not, satisfied by MMO's. Hoping this one is an exception.

Right. I think this is fairly common. Lots of gamers who play MMORPGs don't really care about the RPG part.
They just want to play an MMO with OW-PvP.

Meztopheles wrote: »

Other players affecting the world is the whole appeal to me.

That's an appeal for me, too.

Meztopheles wrote: »

while I think you're with me somewhat on the PVE side, it seems like not so much on the PVP side. Though again, I'm not supportive of systems that allow PVP players to ruin the experience of other players. It should be designed in a way that will inevitably cause some frustrations, but for those frustrations to be the price paid for a more meaningful world and ultimately more fun instead of less. If it's causing more frustration than fun, it's bad and I'd agree it takes the ideas of competition and risk V reward too far. Whether or not that will be the case, it's too early for me to speculate or argue about as there's just not enough information yet.

I enjoy PvP sometimes. I am a Casual Challenge player, so I am not going to be obsessed with Risk v Reward and an obsession with Risk v Reward is going to be too Hardcore Challenge for me. PvP integrated into every aspect of the game is going to be too Hardcore Challenge for me.
There does not have to be an obsession with PvP and Risk v Reward in order to have a dynamic world.
But, if you are closer to the opposite end of the Challenge spectrum - even if closer means you are in the middle - it's not surprising that you would need to test the game and/or acquire more info before you can know how it will feel for you.

Meztopheles wrote: »

I took the Bartle test just to see and got:

67% Explorer
60% Achiever
53% Socialiser
20% Killer

Not sure I'd agree fully but it's interesting. Feel like I'd switch Achiever and Explorer scores and add more to the Achiever from both Explorer and Socialiser. Also, I'm not confident that test accurately measures much of anything. For instance, I got a low killer score, but that's because I don't like "preying" on weak victims as it so often worded its questions, but I enjoy fighting my peers in honorable fights and conquering enemies (of my guild/world/node, whatever it happens to be), so I'm more PVP oriented than this would indicate, I'm just not a jerk (mostly).

Yes. I mean... Killer 0 is not completely accurate for me either, but it's a fairly decent snapshot in terms of relative interests.
It's a 20+ year-old quiz, so... the range of questions do not cover many of the activities or interests available in modern day MMORPGs.

I was going to say that your Achiever score is signifcantly more prominent than mine.
And some of the stuff you use as examples of competition are Achievements.
So... not surprising that you would enjoy PvP and competition more than I do.
And, sure, might be super fun for you to have PvP integrated tightly with PvE.

Boneshatter

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

You cant have a puppy without his master.

@Noaani You know you sound very pathetic saying shit like that, kinda embarrassing to attack people like that just because they disagree with you,

I think you'd be surprised to know that screenshots of the stupid shit you say here are often posted on the discord and people have a good laugh lol

I guess they're all puppies?

you just trapped inside your bubble thinking you are so cool with your forum dwelling insults and dumb takes, when the reality is, thats just sad

Oh you silly goose, you're doing the irony thing again. Such a jokester.

insomnia

"Player versus environment (PvE, also known as player versus monster (PvM)) is a term used for both single player and online games, particularly MMORPGs, CORPGs, MUDs, other online role-playing video games and survival games to refer to fighting computer-controlled enemies[1]—in contrast to PvP (player versus player).[2] In survival games a large part may be fighting the elements, controlling hunger and thirst, learning to adapt to the environment and exploration.

Usually a PvE mode can be played alone, with human companions or with AI companions. The PvE mode may contain a storyline that is narrated as the player progresses through missions. It may also contain missions that may be done in any order."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment

Meztopheles

insomnia wrote: »

"Player versus environment (PvE, also known as player versus monster (PvM)) is a term used for both single player and online games, particularly MMORPGs, CORPGs, MUDs, other online role-playing video games and survival games to refer to fighting computer-controlled enemies[1]—in contrast to PvP (player versus player).[2] In survival games a large part may be fighting the elements, controlling hunger and thirst, learning to adapt to the environment and exploration.

Usually a PvE mode can be played alone, with human companions or with AI companions. The PvE mode may contain a storyline that is narrated as the player progresses through missions. It may also contain missions that may be done in any order."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment

Different understandings about what PVE entails are the prime cause of the major disagreements in this thread. Nice attempt to alleviate that root cause but I doubt it will do much good, people's connotations of PVE are so ingrained that a definition is unlikely to sway them.

I admit, even my own connotations, while more closely resembling the definition than many individuals in this thread, don't fully align and I find myself reluctant to alter them based on a wiki definition. It's a shame we can't come to a common understanding about it to prevent many of the pointless or misguided arguments that have occurred here.

Mag7spy

Boneshatter wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

You cant have a puppy without his master.

@Noaani You know you sound very pathetic saying shit like that, kinda embarrassing to attack people like that just because they disagree with you,

I think you'd be surprised to know that screenshots of the stupid shit you say here are often posted on the discord and people have a good laugh lol

I guess they're all puppies?

you just trapped inside your bubble thinking you are so cool with your forum dwelling insults and dumb takes, when the reality is, thats just sad

Oh you silly goose, you're doing the irony thing again. Such a jokester.

Guy is making a slave joke and you are here trying to defend him lmao.

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

You cant have a puppy without his master.

Noaani You know you sound very pathetic saying shit like that, kinda embarrassing to attack people like that just because they disagree with you,

Wasnt an attack, it was an observation.

I even picked something cute and lovable (seriously, who doesnt love puppies?) in an attempt to show it wasnt an attack.

You may note, however, that like a good loyal puppy, he jumped to your defense above. And since he is a puppy, he also took your lead and completely distorted what was being said.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

You cant have a puppy without his master.

Noaani You know you sound very pathetic saying shit like that, kinda embarrassing to attack people like that just because they disagree with you,

Wasnt an attack, it was an observation.

I even picked something cute and lovable (seriously, who doesnt love puppies?) in an attempt to show it wasnt an attack.

You may note, however, that like a good loyal puppy, he jumped to your defense above. And since he is a puppy, he also took your lead and completely distorted what was being said.

Nice try lying bud. I don't even need to say much as you double and triple down on your own post.

Not just speaking on your character but continuing to show it as well. You think trying to flower your word suddenly reduces the meaning, no one is going to buy that.

As i said before you don't actually bring experience to your discussions nor examples. Your go to is saying you are right, saying you played games int he past and you are a big deal and mainly just insulting and trying to use passive aggressive ways to avoid saying it directly in public.

As i made the point before, all these traits match your personality and are directly represented on your post on the forums which can be all used as examples. You don't actually use experience to push your view points, rather you make bad takes and assumptions.

Grandiosity: often have an inflated sense of self-importance and may exaggerate their achievements, talents, or abilities.

Need for admiration: They crave constant praise, admiration, and attention from others and seek validation for their self-worth.

Sense of entitlement: believe they are entitled to special treatment and may exploit or take advantage of others to meet their needs.

Lack of empathy: They have difficulty understanding or caring about the feelings and needs of others. They may be insensitive and dismissive of others' emotions.

Exploitative behavior: may exploit or manipulate others to achieve their own goals or maintain their self-image.

Sense of superiority: They often view themselves as superior to others and may look down on those they consider inferior.

Fantasies of unlimited success, power, or beauty: may have grandiose fantasies about their potential for success, power, or attractiveness.

Fragile self-esteem: Despite their outward confidence, may have a fragile self-esteem that is easily threatened by criticism or perceived rejection.

Difficulty handling criticism: They are highly sensitive to criticism and may react defensively or aggressively when their flaws or mistakes are pointed out.

Lack of accountability: may have difficulty taking responsibility for their actions and may blame others for their problems or mistakes.

Your points were taken apart, and you instantly go into "attack mode" rather than have a disccusion and show you actually have some kind of standing.

*edit, you are free to take the first step and take accountability and apologize though. Not even just to this pointless comment towards me but just wasting everyone's time.

Abarat

Noaani wrote: »

So, the situation is that for me and my guild, our preferred sphere of content is something Intrepid deem so unimportant they they har literally only said one thing about it in 6 years, despite frequent discussions about it on their forum.

I dont think it is unreasonable for anyone in that situation to make the assumption that the game in question is not aimed at them, but I do think it unreasonable that anyone should challenge that assumption without statements from said developer.

I guess i dont really either... think it is unreasonable for anyone in that situation to make the assumption that the game in question is not aimed at them, i mean.

The part that is confusing, aside from you making wild assumptions about systems we know almost nothing about, is that you are still here... saying the same things over and over and over.

It's like you are begging the game to pay attention to you while saying the game is not 'good' enough for you.

I would respect your position if you said, this game does not suit our needs, then peace out... or say, we have some concerns, if true, this is not for us. seems reasonable. for example, i generally respect @Azherae and his comments.

Everyone says or implies they are not trying to change the game or the direction or core tenants, but it seems like that is the only possible reason folks like you are around.

Steven is a bad game developer, Intrepid does not have anyone that will stand up to steven, the pve will not be good enough, they need a real game designer, its too pvp centric, crafting is gated behind things that will ruin the game due to rmt's, etc, etc, etc.

Over and over... yet... you are still here. That's the part I don't get.

Abarat

Azherae wrote: »

The 'Clear Draft' option is not particularly accessible by comparison,
Anyways good luck protecting people from all the carebears.

I did not know there was a clear draft option. can you direct me to it?

Also, if you change your mind, i will do the tattoo for you personally.

Abarat

Noaani wrote: »

I even picked something cute and lovable (seriously, who doesnt love puppies?) in an attempt to pretend it wasnt an attack.

/fixed

Boneshatter

Abarat wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

The 'Clear Draft' option is not particularly accessible by comparison,
Anyways good luck protecting people from all the carebears.

I did not know there was a clear draft option. can you direct me to it?

Top right of the page in big white text it says Quick Links. Beneath that is a list of things in small orange text. The drafts option is there.

Veeshan

Shabooey wrote: »

Can I ask a question?
It seems there a quite a few people on this thread and in the forums in general that have stated they have no interest in Ashes anymore and don't intend to play it.
My question is why are you still here? Responding in the forums, following the development, if you're not going to play it? I'm assuming it's because it's in development and might change?

Not trying to start any arguments or accuse anyone of anything, there's enough of that already, just interested as to why.

cause they gotta try and change every game to suite them

its the favorite past time ohh a game that pvp might like naaa we gotta complain on the forums constantly till it gets changed to pve and be identical to the games they already play which they leave and go back too

Raven016

Every single stream they say follow on YouTube and we may get an answer to a question. Then we are lured to the forum.

Noaani

Abarat wrote: »

The part that is confusing, aside from you making wild assumptions about systems we know almost nothing about, is that you are still here... saying the same things over and over and over.

I have two main reasons.

One, entertainment. The time I spend on these forums is essentially dead time. I have a few minutes at a time, several times a day free, and not a lot else (most days). I can't think of much better entertainment than spending those few minutes here.

Second - and most apposite - I want to be able to give Intrepid feedback if they ever do decide to come up with top end PvE.

From my perspective, top end PvE content is among the last things to be developed in an MMORPG - usually literally the last content to be developed. This is why I don't expect (or want) Intrepid to *show* any top end content, I just want them to talk about intentions. However, I also know that it isn't exactly Stevens jam, so he may not have put enough thought in to it as yet to be able to talk about it.

I am very much of the opinion that if they want to appeal to people more on the PvE end of the spectrum (but still happy to PvP), they should have talked about it more by now. However, I can see a potential reason as to why they may not have. Very few other people in the PvE sphere see this however, which is why I am one of the few PvE voices on these forums (even though I do still enjoy PvP).

Hope this answers your question (that wasn't actually a question).

Dygz

Veeshan wrote: »

cause they gotta try and change every game to suite them its the favorite past time ohh a game that pvp might like naaa we gotta complain on the forums constantly till it gets changed to pve and be identical to the games they already play which they leave and go back too

There are features to test - even if we don't want to play.
There is no harm in supporting games in development that you don't plan to play - especially when you have friends on the dev team.
And... some people want to understand playstyle mindsets different than their own - "why does that work for you?" "Why is that a dealbreaker for you?"
The forums are here for discussion. Discussion doesn't have to be a demand for change.

Noaani

Abarat wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I even picked something cute and lovable (seriously, who doesnt love puppies?) in an attempt to pretend it wasnt an attack.

/fixed

I mean, to each his own. Proving to me, pretending to you. Same thing.

Either way, it was an accurate statement.

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