Corruption/pvp

How many of you will still be engaging in in world pvp/ ganking reguardless of corruption?

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Right. And, that's why I say the PvX term is meaningless because in WoW and EQ, PvP servers are PvX.
And NWO is also PvX even though the PvP is instanced.
Just saying Ashes is PvX doesn't help people know whether they are in the target audience.

Mag7spy

Liniker wrote: »

I think this clip from today's live stream is very relevant to this discussion, especially with all the recent discussions I had with @Dygz or @Noaani about this same thing lol

seems like steven reads the forums xD

Im legit watching all mmorpg becoming casual nor a days. Even BDO is changing guild dec'ing and both guilds need to consent to fight each other.

Mmos with meaningful PvP are 100% dying and/or not made correctly, so there is definitely a market for it of people just waiting for one to come out.

Dygz

There is an audience for it. We have to hope it's large enough to keep Ashes running for many years.
Seems like it won't be an issue.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

There is an audience for it. We have to hope it's large enough to keep Ashes running for many years.
Seems like it won't be an issue.

If they have the exploration down pat, and actually good pve fights that are fun, for sure they will. PvX is best way to go about it, since it adds to pvp elements and keeps things fresh.

Ie in the last stream a fight happening around the castle they were exploring over some event would be pretty fun and leave some memories.

*im also dead tired in writing this so not much detail in exactly explaining why, but it is important.

Dygz

Not fun for me, but I'm not in Ashes' target audience, so...
That's OK. As long as the population who would find that to be fun is enough to keep the servers running, it's great!

Depraved

Dygz wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

trust me you wont be ow pvping that often in ashes. its not as hardcore as you think.
you are right tho when you say pvp is an integral part of the game

I won't really be pvping at all. (I think we probably don't agree on the meaning of Hardcore.)
I'll just be exploring the map and ignoring everything else.
Available to have some beers in-game and attend some parties and events.

what i mean is people wont be attacking you as often as you think, especially if you are just running around exploring.

Dygz

I don’t care whether people attack or kill me.
I won’t be doing any progression so:
Starter gear
No resources
Lowest Levels possible

0 tangible rewards for attacking/killing me.
On the Mainland, it will give the highest Corruption.

I have no expectations about how often people attack/kill me and it’s a non-issue because it can’t really disrupt my progression goals.

But, if the game is designed for me to think about economic warfare every time I choose which bag to take with me when I go out to pick flowers, it’s too Hardcore for me.

Depraved

what do you mean by economic warfare every time you pick a bag?

Dygz

https://youtu.be/GwpWmmIq2cg?t=1380
Mark 23:00 - 29:23

I'm not interested in having an extra layer of strategy to consider -especially not related to any form of PvP - every time I just want to pick some flowers.
Works great for the competitive gamers Steven is targeting. It's just another clue that I am too Casual Challenge to be in the target audience.

My response to that design is to never Gather anything.

HumblePuffin

Dygz wrote: »

https://youtu.be/GwpWmmIq2cg?t=1380
Mark 23:00 - 29:23

I'm not interested in having an extra layer of strategy to consider -especially not related to any form of PvP - every time I just want to pick some flowers.
Works great for the competitive gamers Steven is targeting. It's just another clue that I am too Casual Challenge to be in the target audience.

I don’t think you really need to consider it if you don’t want to. If you don’t plan to go back and contest your ashes then there’s no reason to even consider the bag that has added interaction time unless you have desire to slow someone else down.

Dygz

What's the point in playing the game if you're not going to contest your ashes??

You're saying just always let the PvPers always have their way:
If you don't want to be involved in FFA PvP, just stay away from the Open Seas.
If you don't want to have to consider your bag inventory when you simply want to pick some flowers, never contest your ashes if you die from PvP.

HumblePuffin

Dygz wrote: »

What's the point in playing the game if you're not going to contest your ashes??

You're saying just always let the PvPers always have their way:
If you don't want to be involved in FFA PvP, just stay away from the Open Seas.
If you don't want to have to consider your bag inventory when you simply want to pick some flowers, never contest your ashes if you die from PvP.

I just don’t understand. You would go back and fight for your ashes? That seems antithetical to most of your positions.

They didn’t say you would lose less with that bag, just that it might take longer for them to get into it.

Dygz

I am not going to have anything in my bags anyway. So, nothing for me to fight for.
At this point, we aren't really talking about what I would do because I will be ignoring PvP altogether.

But, theoretically, if the Open Seas did not exist and bags were not designed to maximize competition and PvP, thus I would be interested in pursuing progression paths --
whether or not I return to fight for my ashes would depend on how much PvP I had already participated in that day and/or whether I'm in the mood to PvP.

(And, really, RPGs are not supposed to be competitive.)

Abarat

Dygz wrote: »

(And, really, RPGs are not supposed to be competitive.)

Says who??

Azherae

Abarat wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

(And, really, RPGs are not supposed to be competitive.)

Says who??

Says Dygz. Basically at the moment around here, just Dygz.

That's probably why it's in parens. Dygz has always said this. Nearly always been heavily disagreed with. No need to pull on this one, I don't think Dygz is out here trying to hard convince anyone.

FuryBladeborne

Noaani wrote: »

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

I think Steven still danced around the issue.
What he talked about is not deviating from the core vision of the game due to player feedback.

I think he’s not being asked to change the core vision around PvP.
He’s really being asked to clearly state that Ashes is a PvP-centric game.
And then if he wants to talk about PvX - great.
Because the PvEers who don’t play PvP-centric MMORPGs don’t care about PvX.
PvX is not going to entice PvEers who don’t play PvP-centric MMORPGs to play Ashes.

How can you see it as a PVP centric game?

Because the consideration of PvP is at the forefront of literally every decision you have to make in Ashes.

How can a game that has players permanently in such a state of mind be anything other than PvP centric?

I think that your description is of a player that is very stressed over PVP. Short of losing a node or freehold, I don't think it is so important as to make it the first thing you consider for every decision you make. You just incorporate some PVP options into your build and don't worry about it unless you run into the situation.

See, there would be a lot more thought than that to me.

Lets say I am a harvester. I wouldn't go off harvesting overly rare materials if I didn't have at least a few guild members online that I knew would back me up if I needed it. Common materials sure, but I wouldn't waste time with more rare materials. Assuming there is the scarcity that Intrepid seem to want, that would be as foolish as someone in EVE going out in a ship they couldn't afford to lose.

As to more common materials, I'd be looking at how close my node was to being open for a siege, and how likely it was that a siege would be happening. If I thought a siege was likely, I wouldn't bother harvesting materials. If I thought a siege was imminent, I'd be clearing out my storage related to that node. It is only if I was sure there was no siege coming that I would even bother harvesting rare materials.

Then you have running PvE content in a group. To me, the definition of a PvP or PvE centric game is where the difficulty comes from. If you have PvE that is dead easy by itself but is made difficult due to PvP, then that is PvP centric. Archeage and BDO both fit in to this - the PvE is dead easy and the only challenge is in PvP, and I have every reason to assume Ashes will be the same.

So even when you are PvE'ing, the bulk of your concerntration is related to PvP - even if only looking out for it.

I mean, you say that the game isn't PvP centric because all you would do is ensure you have some PvP options in your build - basically taking things in your build that you wouldn't take for PvE. The thing is, you wouldn't do the opposite. You wouldn't grab a PvP build that has a few options for PvE just incase some difficult PvE breaks out. You either have a PvE build with PvP options, or a PvP build.

That screams to me that Ashes is a PvP centric game. Sure, PvE still exists, but PvP is at the center.

Keep in mind, I am not complaining about the amount of PvP in Ashes - I am just stating it as I see it.

Your trying to spend your whole gaming time focused around PVP even when not PVPing. It's not necessary. You wont leave to gather unless you have others? That's a personal choice. Learn the solo strengths of your class & build.

I'm not really going to argue past this post. My primary related experience is a few years in Warhammer Online on the server ruleset that allowed killing players anywhere in the world. I spent almost all of my time solo or duo and sometimes small groups. I played almost entirely Sorcerer & Bright Wizard (types of mages) which are not generally looked at as the best solo classes. It's really not a big deal to play alone in an open PVP game. The only real problem is if the server is too crowded with group only players and there is no open area to go to. In which case, get a few friends.

It seems like your trying to describe that the game is PVP centric because you think that a player needs to play almost entirely focused on PVP. That's a personal choice that could cause the player to experience the game as PVP centric but does not automatically mean the game is PVP centric.

From my perspective, I know that I will be relaxed and fine running around in PVP areas because I am used to such environments. To me, at this point: Ashes looks like a balanced PVP and PVE game because the two systems support and justify one another. Additionally, it appears that both systems will be interacted with on a daily basis unless the player goes way out of his or her way to avoid one of the systems.

Depraved

well, ashes is a pvp centric game. that doesnt mean you will be pvping 24/7. it also doesnt mean that there wont be challenging pve. you can have challenging pve that sometimes gets enhanced by pvp (remember you wont be pvping 24/7).

Noaani

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Your trying to spend your whole gaming time focused around PVP even when not PVPing. It's not necessary.

Not quite.

I would spend my whole time in a game like Ashes being aware of the potential for PvP.

I would not spend my whole time in a game like Ashes being aware of the potential for PvE.

Thus, on the scale of PvE to PvP which is what PvX is, Ashes is more on the PvP side - thus is a PvP centric game on that PvX scale.

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