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Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
instanced dungeons
Chicago
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
i like the fact that the dungeons in ashes of creation are open world, however i think they should have a cap of players that can enter each dungeon, a good example is anarchy online, they had a player cap of about 16-24 players per dungeon before a new ID was formed, or a new Layer
the problem with open world dungeons is, on paper it sounds fun, you can pvp for the chance of loot, etc etc, but in reality it will be chaos, with servers holding anywhere between 10-20,000 players at a given time people will just skip dungeons all together as competing against 500 other players for a chance of loot is just not worth it,
once the game matures and there becomes twink items dropping from certain bosses in certain dungeons this will be even worse, and i feel that a large part of the game will be just un obtainable by a vast majority of players,
i dont think dungeons instance locked like wow to a 5 man team is the way to go but maybe they should have a player cap, whats everyones thoughts
the problem with open world dungeons is, on paper it sounds fun, you can pvp for the chance of loot, etc etc, but in reality it will be chaos, with servers holding anywhere between 10-20,000 players at a given time people will just skip dungeons all together as competing against 500 other players for a chance of loot is just not worth it,
once the game matures and there becomes twink items dropping from certain bosses in certain dungeons this will be even worse, and i feel that a large part of the game will be just un obtainable by a vast majority of players,
i dont think dungeons instance locked like wow to a 5 man team is the way to go but maybe they should have a player cap, whats everyones thoughts
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Comments
3 parties per a dungeon that can support 20 parties is kinda silly. And considering Steven's preferences and likes, 20 parties would probably be on the lower end of dungeon size.
Also, the world is huge. Say there's 3 huge top lvl dungeons (30 groups) per each metro. That's enough content for 1/3 of the entire active server population w/o any pvp at max lvl. Add to that any smaller dungeons at top lvl and a few big dungeon that have a few rooms of top lvl content - and you have yourself ~1/2 of the entire active population farming stuff w/o any pvp. So in theory, the entire other half can go fight for their right to pvp w/o too much chaos.
Except those numbers would probably be insane because people don't just spend 100% of their in-game time in dungeons (well, majority doesn't).
Open world dungeons are not just about the boss at the end, they are about a constant flow of mobs. So unless Intrepid do in fact decide to go the WoW route of dungeons (as one of their dev discussions implied) - this will most likely not be that big of an issue. And as for bosses - they would've always been "not for everyone" and Steven wants them that way.
i guess we will have to see when we can test it in 2027 in A2
It is only Korean games that are designed to keep players in their internet Cafe that design dungeons are the constant flow of base population.
Same..
Someone that played one type of dungeon that then never got any use outside of trying to manipulate players in to playing longer, vs someone that created the type of dungeon that became the defaco due to being objectively better and more enjoyable.
I think we both know who should win.
The only reason I'd be looking at this is to get an idea of if Ashes is still just an MMO for Steven, or if he actually wants it to be a successful product. It's the most clear cut situation I can see where these two aspects are diametrically opposed.
An open dungeon isn't "completable". Not until you have literally everything you want from it (including gold).
If dungeons are all about the boss at the end, would it not mean that you've completed the run of that dungeon once you've killed the boss? And then the boss goes on respawn and you have no point in being in that dungeon any more, until the boss respawns? Is that not the case?
Dungeons don't have "a" boss.
My expectation is that any dungeon in Ashes will have around 15 actual bosses, and well over 100 smaller bosses.
"The boss at the end" is probably better described as "the boss at the end of the path we are on right now".
Even if there is only one boss in the dungeon, the other, smaller bosses should still be worth the time to go after.
The reason having so many singular points (in both time and space - due to respawn timers) of interest in a large, winding, criss-crossing dungeon is so that players in dungeons will always be on the move - around very large parts of the dungeon - if not the whole dungeon itself.
you can have 10,000 players max online at the same time, and not all 10k will be trying to farmt he same dungeon 24/7 as there are more things to do. not everybody progresses at the same speed
no, they are not. again, lack of imagination. in oepn world dungeons you can:
instead of going from the swamps, to the desert, to the forest out in the open, you just go from floor 1 to 2 to 3, etc.
it also helps spread the player population, since now, you can fill a vertical space, not just horizontal.
In the first case we will have to wait and see what happens in A2.
In the latter case, players deliberately choose PvP over PvE.
With that being said: I also think (as discussed previously in similar threats) that there is a point to be made for mechanics inside a dungeon to increase the hurdle of access for pursuing parties e.g. by using ancient mechanisms in temples to shut doors that were open before, break down barriers that hold back strong enemies or enable/repair traps that were previously disabled/turned off.
Ultimately I think that it would be "better" to design ingame mechanics that explain why someone cannot just follow another party into a dungeon, rather than setting up external barriers like player caps.
Which is why "compleatable" is in quotes.
Noaani is not talking just about completing on run of the dungeon.
In NWO, it was commonly expected that the group would stay together long enough to repeat a dungeon by killing the bosss at least 4 times in rapid succession.
Also, it's typically possible to farm the "trash" mobs that have respawned in the dungeon or near the dungeon while waiting for the boss to respawn.
It's a similar end result in that the group isn't just there to run a dungeon, kill a boss and then leave - you don't "complete" the dungeon just by killing the boss.
If bosses do respawn really fast then we're pretty much talking about the same thing. You just want each room to be of a higher quality, and I can definitely agree with that.
I think a low / medium level instanced dungeon on the entire map would be interesting.
High end dungeons, if they remain open world, chaos will not be high, especially if PvP does not trigger corruption. You will have to accept the order being enforced by the bigger and stronger guild.
Farming a spot, or location, is the worst gameplay I've seen in any game genre, honestly.
I wouldn't want to put a time on what the respawn rate should be, it is determined by things like character movement speed, distance between bosses, number of encounters between bosses, etc. Boss respawn timers are one of those things that Intrepid can set up as levers to achieve a desired result.
To me, that desired result is players being mobile in criss-crossing dungeons so that they encounter other groups (and often the same group) frequently.
Open world dungeons imply that there'll be a party for each boss as soon as that boss respawns. So unless bosses have, like, a 5 minute respawn - people will just spend their primetime in the game running around. That sounds like the most boring shit to me. There'll be no pvp, because there'd be no content to pvp for. There'd be no pve, because every boss has already been taken out by someone. There'd be no other content, because value of the potential boss is so much higher than any other activity that you'd still have to run around in hopes of coming across a freshly respawned boss.
So please tell me that I'm wrong and that somehow there'll always be enough bosses to satisfy most parties in the game. And if you want bosses on a short respawn - just say so, because at that point we want the same thing.
I want dungeons with mobs because that's a permanent source of pvx content. At any time of the day I'll know for damn sure that I can go to a dungeon and either find a mob to kill or a person to fight for that mob. And the same would be true for other people. That's "pvx content" for me.
And then on top of that assured content there's always several bosses that would be respawning within the primetime window that my guild/party would want to get, so we'd go to their spawn locations several minutes before the earliest spawn time. But if we see that the location is filled with a ton of stronger people - we'll always have the mobs to fall back on. As I understand your preferred design, you'd just run towards a different boss' respawn point, correct?
running from A to B is the worst gameplay I've ever seen (one of the biggest complaints about NW aka running simulator). I love staying in one spot farming mobs. at least I get to use my character. not everybody likes questing. lots of people like grinding mobs.
Doing stuff you like is not a grind.
This makes you sound dim witted. The arrogance of some of the forum members is staggering to me.
this is actually accurate mate lol
@Roshen and I talk about this often, as he has a lot of open-world dungeon/raid experience in MMORPGs!
Only in a game with a low ratio of content to players.
The only way people will spend their time in game "running around" is if Intrepid don't put in base population - which would be a mistake.
What I will say is as someone that has played your ideal of dungeon (Archeage library), and the kind I am talking about (EQ2 PvP server), there is a reason I am excited about the prospect of one ideal, and consider the other to be the worst gameplay in have seen in any genre.
Your assumption on how it will be played is only true if the design is wrong.
Essentially, you are saying you want dungeons where players sit still and dare the same boring mobs over and over, with the only variation at all coming from potential PvP - but where everyone knows where your group is. It is the definition of boring, mundane predictable content.
I am talking about a dungeon where people are having to fight their way around, looking for boss mobs. Each of these bosses will fight differently already providing more variation. On top of that, while fighting your way between dungeons you are constantly happening upon cross roads, where groups could come at you from any number of directions making PvP also more variable.
That is how it worked in a game where the dungeons were just built for pure PvE rather than attempting to be backdrops for PvP. It was easily the best PvP group content I've ever played (some large scale PvP events beat it out, but aren't what dungeons are for).
I like combat, and I want to roleplay as the savior of the continent, and for that reason, I like slaying mobs. how dare you tell me that's not roleplaying? I'm going to roleplay as the witcher and kill all those monsters and you cant tell me I'm not roleplaying. shame on you.
literally almost every dungeon in l2, and most (important) farming spots out in the open, unless you are in a really low pop server.
also, nothing wrong with staying in one spot and killing mobs inside a dungeon. you do that out in the open, the only difference is the change of scenery. unless you are willing to say that running around for several hours talking to npc's and maybe killing 5 mobs per hour is more fun. at this point, you aren't even playing your character anymore.
edit: happens a lot in ro as well, minus the pvp